Thread: Ketosis - a little info please
02-28-2002, 11:57 AM #1
Ketosis - a little info please
Does anyone have any info about this sort of diet? i just ran a search here and there is some interesting reading, but what i really want to know is..... um... everything
seriously, what types of food are you meant to eat?, how many days with no carbs? how hard should i train? what juice if any would help? how much cardio ? etc etc
iv read up on this on the net in various places and the info differs tremendously, ranging from a miracle diet to downright dangerous!!
any info would be really helpfull about now? thanks!
02-28-2002, 06:57 PM #2
In ketosis right now... incorporating a CKD plan. PM me for more information... there is so much to talk about, I don't know where to begin.
BTW... don't listen to the media morons saying its dangerous... it's not, if you do it right.
02-28-2002, 08:13 PM #3Retired IRON CHEF Mod
- Join Date
- Dec 1969
I don't know
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by dangerous but I know that you take a really good chance of losing alot of lean muscle mass and when you lose that what's the point in dieting at all? Another thing to be careful is that these types of diets are not useually diets that one will stay on for long periods and when carbs are reintroduced into the body. fat gains are almost guarrenteed to come back and useually worse than when you first started the diet. Fat loss takes time and to do that in a HEALTHY manner requires a balanced diet.
02-28-2002, 08:44 PM #4
I agree with Tobey that long term LC is NOT the way to go. A once a week refeed does the trick in sparing muscle loss while cutting. Also, this is just one phase I am experimenting with to some great results. Starting in April, I will move to more balanced 5-6 meals per day.
If considering a keto cycle, do as much reading on it as you can before doing it. It helps to know the chemical implications/nuances of how it works. Also, it needs to be followed as suggested. No shortcuts!
More on the CKD/TKD:
http://www.thepowerstore.com/ (Click on Articles Link at the bottom, then search "ketogenic diet")
03-01-2002, 12:53 AM #5
some excellent info found on those links llbeastcd (look out for a PM )
the dangers most present are the loss of muscle and the potential for system damage if the diet is abused. many of the comments now seem rather hysterical since iv been able to read about the actual process involved.
03-01-2002, 01:16 AM #6
best med text i could find hope it helps !!!
The basis of ketogenic diets, such as the Atkins Diet, is a severe restriction of carbohydrate calories, which simply causes a net reduction in total calories. Since carbohydrate calories are limited, intake of fat usually increases. This high fat diet causes ketosis (increased blood ketones from fat breakdown) which suppresses hunger, and thus contributes to caloric restriction.
Low carbohydrate diets are also characterized by initial rapid weight loss, primarily due to excessive water loss. A decreased carbohydrate intake causes liver and muscle glycogen depletion, which causes a large loss of water, since about three parts of water are stored with one part of glycogen. Also, restricting carbohydrate intake reduces the kidney's ability to concentrate urine, leading to an increased excretion of sodium. All these factors combine to cause a powerful but temporary diuresis.
Dieters cherish this rapid initial weight loss and assume it represents fat loss. Actually, their body fat stores are virtually untouched. And, as the body adjusts for the water deficit, the weight loss slows or ceases. The dieter often becomes frustrated and abandons the diet. Individuals who do stick with it may lose weight due to the caloric restriction mentioned above.
A ketogenic diet may or may not have side effects, depending on the individual person. It is certainly riskier for overweight individuals with medical problems such as heart disease, hypertension, kidney disease, and diabetes than it is for overweight people with no health problems. Complications associated with low carbohydrate, high protein diets include ketosis, dehydration, electrolyte loss, calcium depletion, weakness (due to inadequate dietary carbohydrate), nausea (due to ketosis), and possibly kidney problems. Vitamin and mineral deficiencies are other problems in such unbalanced crash diet regimens. Even Dr. Atkins, the author of both old and new versions of Diet Revolution, admits that his diet doesn't supply enough vitamin and minerals and recommends that people take supplements.
Gout is another potential side effect, since the uric acid in the blood increases as the uric acid competes with ketones for excretion. This higher blood uric acid level can also increase the risk of kidney failure. Dr. Atkins does warn that people with kidney problems shouldn't follow his diet, but he doesn't mention that the diet might produce these disorders.
In the book The Ketogenic Diet, the author Lyle McDonald notes that the production of ketones from alcohol tends to result in less fat loss, since less free fatty acids are converted to ketones. He also indicates that there is no reason that small amounts of alcohol cannot be consumed during a ketogenic diet, although alcohol consumption slows fat loss. He cautions that alcohol may have a greater effect (in terms of intoxication) when someone is in ketosis.
Lastly, the risk of coronary heart disease may be higher in susceptible persons who stay on the diet a long time, due to increased consumption of foods high in saturated fat and cholesterol.
In conclusion, ketogenic diets such as Atkins' program are no more successful than those weight loss programs recommended by the scientific/medical community. They are more dangerous than other fad weight regimens due to its high fat content. Persons who choose to follow ketogenic diets should check with their physician periodically as the diet can cause electrolyte depletion and increased blood lipids. They should have periodic blood tests to measure total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, HDL cholesterol, and triglycerides.
03-01-2002, 03:02 AM #7
back to square 1?
here we have again. two fairly different views! iv read very similar information myself gymnut, and the reason for the question was to try and get a hold one way or the other.
although iv read some very good reports, none have actually explained the diet in terms of what can be eaten, what the effects actually are, what the results are going to mean, how it works (if it works). iv tended to find info which has said either yay or nay to the diet, with much the same information as the next report.
i figured if anyone would have tried this diet it would be people on this board, and id much rather have the info from the horses mouth so to speak.
i look forward to some more information and views, and hopefully an informed discusion which will clear this whole this up once and for all for myself, and anyone else who might wish to try this diet.
03-01-2002, 06:15 AM #8Retired IRON CHEF Mod
- Join Date
- Dec 1969
If you want to know someone who has done this try shooting llbeastcd a pm. I also happen to know that bennie has been on this particular diet for the last two years and is also quite knowledgable with "first hand experience" on the topic. I have used this diet but it was only for a week or so at a time while getting ready for certain competitions trying to make a certain weight. I personlly would not recommend it but there are those here who would like llbeastcd and beenie both who have my utmost respect for their knowledge on the subject. Talk to them, they will be able to stear you in the right direction with supplements, diet plans, ect. Good luck.
03-01-2002, 07:06 PM #9
Thanks Tobey. Believe me, I'm no expert. Still feeling my way through it... and have had both positive and negatives with it. At the very least, I want to be able to say, "Been there, done that" and add it to my resume of experiences.
Positives... you DO lose body fat and maintain muscle. As a matter of fact, I could swear that I have gained muscle in certain areas. NEVER hungry, sleep better, have boundless energy, wicked cool dreams (a neat side effect), increased vascularity.
Negatives... at the end of the carb restrictive phase, you look deflated. That's one thing, you have to get past. Other negatives... you can get sick of the food choices... I mean much bacon, eggs, sausage, and pepperoni can one eat? Also, steak and meat is expensive, and my girlfriend thinks I'm quite freaky when I ask for coffee with heavy cream, burgers with no bun, scrape the cheese off pizza and leave the bread, and decline a piece of gum that she offers in the car. Plus... my breath stinks...LOL.
Will be leaving keto land at the end of this month and looking forward to eating balanced again. I miss my morning oatmeal.
04-04-2002, 03:44 PM #10
Bad breath sucks.....
Good thread though!
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