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Thread: Fat intake??///

  1. #1
    Rubherchicken is offline Associate Member
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    Jun 2002

    Question Fat intake??///

    what would be the proper amount (grams) of healthy fat, fish avacado olive oil ect, for me to take in per day? I know you need to have good fat intake in order to shed fat off. Is there a rule of thumb to this? fat at nite ok or is it like carbs, tone it down at nite?

    5 10



  2. #2
    PaPaPumP's Avatar
    PaPaPumP is offline Retired Moderator
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    Dec 1969
    Outside your bedroom wind
    fat is awesome at night. i eat protein and carbs together, and protein and fat together, try not to eat fat carbs and protein in a meal as the insulin produced from the carbs will shuttle fat just as it would protein...which is not what we want. stick with carbs for first three four meals of the day, then protein and fat for the rest of the day. awesome way to stay lean and add muscle. dont believe me ? give it a honest effort and you will be thanking me two months from now

  3. #3
    PaPaPumP's Avatar
    PaPaPumP is offline Retired Moderator
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    Dec 1969
    Outside your bedroom wind
    btw...about 50g of healthy fats and let the bad fats make the rest of your fat intake...i eat about 70g of fat or so a day..i try to make them all in the form of lean meat fat, egg yolk, pb, or fish fat

  4. #4
    Rubherchicken is offline Associate Member
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    Jun 2002
    thanks alot bro, you have been very helpfull..


  5. #5
    NightOp is offline Member
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    Jan 2002
    this might help >

    Fats for dummies

    All fats have 9 kcals per gram

    Some forms of fats are

    1. free fatty acids
    2. sterols
    3. sphingolipids
    4. triglycerides

    Categories of fat

    1. mono-unsaturated
    2. polyunsaturated
    3. saturated

    Fatty acids

    Fatty acids consists of long hydro - carbon chains consisting of hydrogen and carbon with a an acid group at one end and a methyl at the other

    The length of carbon chains vary from 4 to 22 and up to 35!

    Differences in fatty acids
    Monounsaturated : missing a hydrogen pair
    Polyunsaturated : missing two or more hydrogen pairs
    Saturated : saturated with hydrogen

    The more unsaturated a fat is the lower the temperature it melts at. Flax Oil must be stored in a refrigerator.

    Hydrogenated fat is polyunsaturated fat that have undergone a process to add hydrogen in their double bond. An example of hydrogenated fat is trans fatty acids.

    Monounsaturated fat is a non essential fat. The body can produce all mono. Fats from poly thus it does not contain an Essential Fatty acids. Certain types of monounsaturated fat however are rich in Omega - 9. Omega means the methyl end. Thus Omega -9 have the first unsaturated site, 9 carbons from the methyl end. Fatty acids rich in Omega 9 include olive oil, canola oil, peanuts and avocados.

    Polyunsaturated fats are fats found in lineloic acid, gamma lineloic acid and alpha lineloic acid and also in Arachidonic acid. These are deemed essential to the body since the body cannot produce its own supply, unlike the monos which can be produced from the poly.

    An often skipped part in the diet is the fact that we often supply a lot of Omega -6 but few Omega -3. Adding fish to the diet will bring to par this discrepancy. The acids of Omega -6 include DHA and EPA which increases brain function and leaves little chance for heart deseases to occur. When chosing a supplement make sure that EFA : DHA ratio is 300 : 150 or 180.

    Why do we need to supply with EFA?

    Efa’s are incorporated to cell membranes and are used to make localized hormones called prostglandils which stimulate protein synthesis and begin hypertrophy.

    Regulate blood clotting since they produce leucotreins.

    Testosterone is effected by EFA (too little of EFA and you wont have much test !)

    Brain consists of 60% of fat and EFA’s are vital for it to function.

    Lowers LDL levels and increases HDL

    Omega -3 is used to help those suffering with depression

    Can these good fats turn bad?

    Unfortunately Yes. This is done by adding hydrogen in the process known as hydrogenation. During this process the fatty acids are twisted at the site where hydrogen is added. The result is a trans fatty acid. So why do we use hydrogenated oils if they are so bad? For one reason to increase shelf life. It’s interesting to note that 3-5% of fat in milk consists of these trans fatty acids.

    What are the negative effects of the trans fatty acids ?

    Adverse effects on cardiovascular health may be determined by effects on serum levels of low density lipoproteins(LDL), HDL, and Lp.

    HDL - high density Lipoprotein; was formerly an LDL but deposited its load of fat to cells. HDL is correlated with the good cholesterol
    LDL - bad cholesterol which causes thickening of artery walls.

    Saturated Fats are not needed by the body to function but eliminating sat fats completely is nearly impossible. What we need to do to practise good health is do aim for higher HDL and lower LDL since HDL is considered the harmless cholesterol. Very interesting is the fact that saturated fat with carbon chain length below 10 are considered to have a neutral effect on cholesterol levels. The latter are called MCT medium chain triglycerides.
    Recent studies are now suggesting that the main culprit behind saturated fat may not be saturated fat par se but palmetic acid. This means that foods rich in stearic acid but low in palmetic acid are not too detrimental.

    Sources of fats

    Omega -6 Omega - 3 Omega - 9

    Lineloic acid Alpha lineloic Acid Oleic Acid
    Gamma Lineloic Acid Eicosapentaneoic Acid (EPA)
    Arachidonic Acid Decosahexaenoic Acid (DHA)

    Gamma-linolenic acid (GLA) is an essential fatty acid (EFA) in the omega-6 family that is found primarily in plant-based oils. GLA is available directly from evening primrose oil (EPO), black currant seed oil, and borage oil. Most of these oils also contain some linolenic acid.
    Linolenic acid (LA), another omega-6 fatty acid, is found in cooking oils and processed foods and converted to GLA in the body. AA can also be consumed directly from meat.
    GLA is then broken down to arachidonic acid (AA) and/or another substance called dihomogamma-liolenic acid (DGLA).

    Linolenic acid (not to be confused with alpha-linolenic acid, which is in the omega-3 family) and arachidonic acid (AA) tend to be unhealthy because they promote inflammation, thereby increasing the risk of the diseases mentioned when consumed in excess. In contrast, GLA may actually reduce inflammation.
    Much of the GLA taken from the oils mentioned or as a supplement is not converted to AA, but rather to DGLA. DGLA competes with AA and prevents the negative inflammatory effects that AA would otherwise cause in the body. Having adequate amounts of certain nutrients in the body (including magnesium, zinc, and vitamins C, B3, and B6) helps to promote the conversion of GLA to DGLA rather than AA.
    It is important to know that many experts feel that the science supporting the use of omega-3 fatty acids to reduce inflammation and prevent diseases is much stronger than the information regarding use of GLA for these purposes. Two important, and most studied, omega-3 fatty acids include eicosopentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA), both found in fish and fish oils.
    Alpha Lineloic acid is highly concentrated in certain plant oils such as flaxseed oil and to a lesser extent, canola, soy, perilla, and walnut oils. ALA is also found in wild plants such as purslane. Once ingested, the body converts ALA to EPA and DHA, the two types of omega-3 fatty acids more readily used by the body. AlA sources include
    raw flax seed provides 22800mg of ALA,
    dried butternuts provide 8700mg of ALA,
    walnuts provide 6800mg of ALA
    100mg of cooked soybean provide 2100mg of ALA

    The optimal ratio of Omega -6 : Omega -3 is 4/5 : 1. Most diets are in ratio of 30: 1 !!! . This imbalance contributes to the development of long-term diseases such as heart disease, cancer, asthma, arthritis, and depression as well as, possibly, increased risk of infection. This is due to increased concentrations of Linolenic acid and AA.

    Some excellent sources of fats

    Salmon and Oily Fish
    Extra Virgin Olive oil
    Flax seed oil
    Brazil Nuts
    Cod Liver Oil

    Nuts as Sources

    When choosing between peanuts and almonds or other type of nuts its better the almonds as these do not contain lectins which may be toxic to the human body.

    Classification of fats by Omega standards

    Omega -3 Omega -6 Omega -9

    Walnuts Borage Oil Olive Oils
    Pumpkin Seeds Evening Primrose Oil Sesame Oil
    Hemp Seed Oil Pine nuts Avocado
    Flax seed Oil Pistachios Peanuts
    Canola Oil Sunflower seeds Almonds
    Deep Sea fish CLA Pecans
    Wheat germ Cashew
    Soybean Oil Hazelnuts

    Never use oils that contains partially hydrogenated versions

    Pressed oils. Absolute meaning of numbers not clear.
    The best oils in this table appear to be flaxseed, olive and canola.

    canola 14 1 4 8 1 omega-3; 3 omega-6
    corn 14 2 8 4 0 omega-3; 8 omega-6
    flaxseed 14 1 10 3 7 omega-3; 2 omega-6; 2 omega-9 (mono)
    olive 14 2 1 10 0 omega-3; 1 omega-6; high in mono;
    unprocessed high in antioxidants

    peanut 14 3 5 6 0 omega-3; 4 omega-6
    safflower 14 2 10 2 0 omega-3; 8 omega-6
    sesame 14 2 6 5 0 omega-3; 6 omega-6
    soy 1 omega-3; 7 omega-6
    sunflower seed 14 2 9 3 0 omega-3; 8 omega-6
    wheat germ 14 1 9 3 1 omega-3; 7 omega-6

    Nut oil amounts are in grams per ounce (28 grams) of nuts.

    almond 14 1 3 10 good mono/total ratio
    avocado 30 ? ? ?? (amount in average fruit) high in mono
    brazil 19 5 7 7 relatively high saturated
    cashew 13 2 8 3
    hazelnut 18 1 2 15 very good mono/total ratio
    macademia 20 2 3 15 good mono/total ratio
    pecan 19 2 5 12 good mono/total ratio
    pistachio 14 2 4 8
    pumpkin high omega-3
    soybean some omega-3
    walnut 15 2 11 2 some omega-3

    Fish oils are in percent by weight of fish meat,
    which is equivalent to grams per 3.5 oz. serving.
    Amounts can vary widely depending on time of year and fish diet.
    Levels in farm-raised fish have been both higher and lower.
    Reason why total omega-3 and ALA both given.

    FISH omega-6 omega-3 ALA
    Cod 1.2 3.* 0.8
    Flounder 0.01 0.2 0.01
    Halibut (Pacific) 0.02 0.3 0.01
    Herring (Atlantic) 0.3 1.0 0.11
    Herring (Pacific) 0.1 1.4 0.03
    Mackerel 1.0 1.8 0.10
    Rockfish 0.04 0.8 0.02
    Salmon (farmed Atlantic) 0.1 1.9 0.05
    Salmon (chinook) 0.1 1.8 0.11
    Salmon (coho) 0.1 1.8 0.04
    Salmon (sockeye) 1.4 3.3 0.3
    Sole (lemon) 0.7 0.2 ?
    Trout (lake -- pink meat) ? 2.0 ?
    Trout (rainbow) ? 0.5 ?
    Tuna (canned albabcore) 0.05 1.5 0.04
    Tuna (canned bluefin) 0.03 1.0 0.02
    *Another source lists this as less than 0.3

  6. #6
    Rubherchicken is offline Associate Member
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    Jun 2002
    that wa a kick ass post, very good my friend. Very high tech too. It might have been in the post and I just didnt understand it, but what do you personally take in per day? (grams) how do you spread it out? being on gear, does that change what your intake should be?

    thanks again bro.


  7. #7
    PaPaPumP's Avatar
    PaPaPumP is offline Retired Moderator
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    Dec 1969
    Outside your bedroom wind

    first of all, if ur rubbin a girl thats got a chicken...chances are its not a woman.

    back to dietary fat.some people go high protein mod-high carb, and lo fat

    some go super high protein, lo fat, lo carb...

    i tend to be high protein, lo-mod carb (rotation), and moderate fat.

    Being on gear, don't worry so much about fat, make sure you're gettin enough protein for growth. I take in 2g per lb to be safe. Some say 1....well, good for them, I say 2.

    65ish total fat, make as many healthy fats as possible

    protein should be about 400g

    carbs rotate them between 200-300 with some super lo days in there to keep metbolism on fire.'
    this type of eating isnt mass bulk style ating. this is more lean mass drop bf eating, and it works. if you wanna bulk 400g protein 400g carbs, same fat

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