My Food Plan for Constructive Criticism

[IronClydes]

It's very basic T and your overthinking this... Imo I wouldn't go on a cut b/c once your diet is dialed in you'll be gaining muscle while dropping bf... That's the whole concept behind carb cycling so we don't lose the new found muscle tissue.... You'll just have to find your happy medium and adjust your cals & cardio(since your trying to drop bf) according to your goals but changing things around too much will not enable your body to adjust the way you want it to!

It's been a proven method for many people(BBers) so I don't see why your ?ing his advice! I've heeded everything he Kel AG Bio etc etc ever brought up to me and it's worked greatly! And I was in the same boat as you!

Thanks Nach. I know Marcus knows his shit and is King of the stuff, but when I get drastically different pieces of advice I try to understand the why's of it. I'm not yoyo-ing at all, I am staying consistent with my diet, and nearly a week into the 1000 calorie cut....albeit I am growing nervous of muscle loss, especially after reading Marcus' thread about never going below maintenance...lol

I will keep to the cut at least short term to be able to measure the results for future reference and comparison.

As of today I am down to 224.5, about a 1-1.5 pound loss since starting....hard to really know for sure as water weight moves around so much, but I always weigh first thing in the a.m.

[IronClydes]

Good stuff, I have sent a friend request :-)

Have you had a high day yet ?

Just accepted!

My first 3 days were low carb 100-150 (roughly 100 net), this is the 3rd day of 3 days at 200 carb. I am fluctuating slightly above, but not horribly. Dialing it down. Net calories are staying as directed.

[MR-FQ320]

^^^^ right ok, I'm getting it- slowly lol. When is your workout ? Before meal 3 ? When is cardio ? Are you on cycle or not ?

3 low, 3 high ?

I can't see pie charts, or weekly totals. Is it set to fully open ?

[IronClydes]

^^^^ right ok, I'm getting it- slowly lol. When is your workout ? Before meal 3 ? When is cardio ? Are you on cycle or not ?

3 low, 3 high ?

I can't see pie charts, or weekly totals. Is it set to fully open ?

Just checked it out and the only options under Privacy are to everyone, to friends, etc. I have set it to everyone. I can see all your foods, no pie charts, but still shows caloric and macro breakdowns.

On the 3 high and 4 low you directed. I started this first week on 3 low to time the high days in conjuction with my major lift days.

I work out in the a.m. first thing, fasted with pre workout and leucine and creatine, whey iso and rice milk and creatine post. about an hour later is my highest carb meal of brown rice, chicken, and olive oil.

[IronClydes]

Next 4 days will be my low days.

Just to make sure I am not confused, no refeed days for now, correct?

[IronClydes]

My workouts should also show in myfitnesspal. The calories are calculated from my heart rate monitor while working out, so they are fairly accurate.

If you want to see my workouts, they are all recorded on BodySpace and in the Marcus's Diary forum. All HIT format, one muscle a day, 30-65 minutes weights plus, if able, another 20-30 cardio and abs.

[NACH3]

Thanks Nach. I know Marcus knows his shit and is King of the stuff, but when I get drastically different pieces of advice I try to understand the why's of it. I'm not yoyo-ing at all, I am staying consistent with my diet, and nearly a week into the 1000 calorie cut....albeit I am growing nervous of muscle loss, especially after reading Marcus' thread about never going below maintenance...lol

I will keep to the cut at least short term to be able to measure the results for future reference and comparison.

As of today I am down to 224.5, about a 1-1.5 pound loss since starting....hard to really know for sure as water weight moves around so much, but I always weigh first thing in the a.m.

Good buddy just do you and stick to it like you are... I wasn't saying yiu were yoyo-ing around at all T... I just want to see you be as successful as you possibly can!

[IronClydes]

Good buddy just do you and stick to it like you are... I wasn't saying yiu were yoyo-ing around at all T... I just want to see you be as successful as you possibly can!

Thanks Nach. Appreciate your help here and there

[MR-FQ320]

Next 4 days will be my low days. Just to make sure I am not confused, no refeed days for now, correct?

Your 3 x 200g ARE the refeed days remember.

Let's look at your body weight and if your bf% has changed after two full weeks.

[NACH3]

Thanks Nach. Appreciate your help here and there

I think FQ has it covered!

[IronClydes]

^^^^ right ok, I'm getting it- slowly lol. When is your workout ? Before meal 3 ? When is cardio ? Are you on cycle or not ? 3 low, 3 high ? I can't see pie charts, or weekly totals. Is it set to fully open ?

Forgot to answer, I am in my 4th week of a 14 week blast (test cyp cycle).

Cardio is usually immediately following weight session; however, on weekends I try to separate and do cardio later in evening.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Your 3 x 200g ARE the refeed days remember. Let's look at your body weight and if your bf% has changed after two full weeks.

I thought that was how I was to interpret it, just had to make sure. I have heard some do 100, 150, 200, repeat, then 600 refeed. I think MikeXXL was one.

One more day left of the first week. Following the second week's completion I will repost updated pics (without the animal on my chest) and body weight.

Thanks again guys!

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[MR-FQ320]

^^^^ ok Tduff, hopefully words are with me a little better today and I can explain more clearly and you the benefit of my experience.

Because you are on cycle, fat loss and muscle growth can and should be accelerated during carb cycling, the results are only limited by the numbers involved, I believe that 4*100 low and 3* 200 high could be more suitable for somebody who is not on cycle or on TRT dosages. Just my thoughts, let's get you in the groove and see what's happening. I just don't want to waste any time while on cycle.

[IronClydes]

^^^^ ok Tduff, hopefully words are with me a little better today and I can explain more clearly and you the benefit of my experience. Because you are on cycle, fat loss and muscle growth can and should be accelerated during carb cycling, the results are only limited by the numbers involved, I believe that 4*100 low and 3* 200 high could be more suitable for somebody who is not on cycle or on TRT dosages. Just my thoughts, let's get you in the groove and see what's happening. I just don't want to waste any time while on cycle.

Okay, and which way are you leaning for on cycle?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[MR-FQ320]

Okay, and which way are you leaning for on cycle? 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

Depends on goal mate, bulk or cut ?

Oh and I think Mike XXL carb up protocol was a pre contest final week too

[IronClydes]

Depends on goal mate, bulk or cut ? Oh and I think Mike XXL carb up protocol was a pre contest final week too

Cut, of course. But with possibly on lean gains, if it can be done.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[MR-FQ320]

Cut, of course. But with possibly on lean gains, if it can be done. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

IMO, that will come down to workouts and volume, personally, I added the same body part in the morning, doing the compound movement, I am sure I have added size on - if not then defo shape, measurements later today. Maybe we could look at your am cardio and switch it to a weighted circuit, or like I do ,heavy compound In the morning, isolation in the evening? Bigger muscles move more weight more often.

Remind me of your current workouts and splits please.

[IronClydes]

Day 1 HIT Chest
Day 2 HIT Back
Day 3 HIT Shoulders
Day 4 HIT Legs
Day 5 HIT Arms
Rest
Rest

Cardio 4-5 days 20-45 min
Abs EOD

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Hey MR FQ,

Getting a little too concerned about muscle loss. It takes me EXTREMELY long to put any muscle on. I concerned it might be rash to jump so low.

I am finishing day 8, 1000 calories cut each day, so already 8000 calories short of maintenance.

I considering returning to a maintenance level but carb cycling aggressively and doing cardio daily. Do you think I am overly concerned and need to chill out?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[MR-FQ320]

Hey MR FQ, Getting a little too concerned about muscle loss. It takes me EXTREMELY long to put any muscle on. I concerned it might be rash to jump so low. I am finishing day 8, 1000 calories cut each day, so already 8000 calories short of maintenance. I considering returning to a maintenance level but carb cycling aggressively and doing cardio daily. Do you think I am overly concerned and need to chill out? 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

Bro, you just can't lose muscle like that overnight, it's biologically impossible, think of your muscles as balloons, the carbs are the air inflating the size of the muscle, now then , through carb reduction we are slowly deflating the muscle and drawing on fat reserved for energy, the refeed days refill the ballon back up to its original size less the fat already burnt. If they have not reached original size we just add in more carbs on high days. Remember that fat is in the muscles too, so we will be getting rid of this too, so a smaller look is to be expected. We can top up the muscles with glycogen / carbs when we want if the refeed days were not enough. So have you lost weight on the scales ? Have you lost fat ?

[MR-FQ320]

I am concerned over some of your food choices too, a lot of nuts and cream for coffee ? Is the macro split 40:40:20 on all days ?

Can we add in another workout on a rest day ? An all over body pump ?

[IronClydes]

Bro, you just can't lose muscle like that overnight, it's biologically impossible, think of your muscles as balloons, the carbs are the air inflating the size of the muscle, now then , through carb reduction we are slowly deflating the muscle and drawing on fat reserved for energy, the refeed days refill the ballon back up to its original size less the fat already burnt. If they have not reached original size we just add in more carbs on high days. Remember that fat is in the muscles too, so we will be getting rid of this too, so a smaller look is to be expected. We can top up the muscles with glycogen / carbs when we want if the refeed days were not enough. So have you lost weight on the scales ? Have you lost fat ?

Scale was at 225 this morning. Hard to say what that means though. Only a 1 pound difference since starting....then there's water fluctuation daily. I keep hearing that you can't avoid muscle loss with severe cuts in calories. Is this an incorrect understaffing?

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

I am concerned over some of your food choices too, a lot of nuts and cream for coffee ? Is the macro split 40:40:20 on all days ? Can we add in another workout on a rest day ? An all over body pump ?

The coffee creamer is only 10 cal a tablespoon. It's nondairy powder. Nuts are a weakness, but they make the calories total daily and have minimal carbs. I'm up for a to body pump or even an extra day devoted to weak spots. The macro split is not definitive. The calorie cap is. I like more fats to replace the lost carb calories.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[MR-FQ320]

Scale was at 225 this morning. Hard to say what that means though. Only a 1 pound difference since starting....then there's water fluctuation daily. I keep hearing that you can't avoid muscle loss with severe cuts in calories. Is this an incorrect understaffing? 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

You have not lost any previously built muscle fibre / tissue. Fat is stored in muscles too don't forget, we will be expelling this.

[IronClydes]

You have not lost any previously built muscle fibre / tissue. Fat is stored in muscles too don't forget, we will be expelling this.

I understand your meaning. How far can this be taken before I risk muscle loss? It's vague to me as I hear notables such as KelKel and Marcus300 state going below maintenance risks muscle loss. I hope you understand my concern as I hear this.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[MR-FQ320]

The coffee creamer is only 10 cal a tablespoon. It's nondairy powder. Nuts are a weakness, but they make the calories total daily and have minimal carbs. I'm up for a to body pump or even an extra day devoted to weak spots. The macro split is not definitive. The calorie cap is. I like more fats to replace the lost carb calories. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

Looking through the last weeks diary , mon - Weds was on point, thurs fri sat was about 500 over plan. But 500 less than a refeed (?) We've not quite nailed this yet. Just use the nuts to top fats up to 60g a day not level out the missing carbs.

[IronClydes]

Looking through the last weeks diary , mon - Weds was on point, thurs fri sat was about 500 over plan. But 500 less than a refeed (?) We've not quite nailed this yet. Just use the nuts to top fats up to 60g a day not level out the missing carbs.

I agree I haven't nailed it. A few confusions:

1) when I earn more calories via exercise, where can I use those newly available calories? Can any be allotted to carbs (myfitnesspal automatically increases all macros in accordance with earned calories) or are they strictly at the 100 and 200 marks daily regardless?

2) see below pics for my low and hi calorie macro splits as they apply to scheduled days. I made this following your direction. I find it hard to keep my fats this low....May need to remove almonds from planned meals and minimize peanut butter on my Ezekiel bread.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Attachment 156913

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Attachment 156914

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Looking through the last weeks diary , mon - Weds was on point, thurs fri sat was about 500 over plan. But 500 less than a refeed (?) We've not quite nailed this yet. Just use the nuts to top fats up to 60g a day not level out the missing carbs.

Sunday was net of 170 over
Monday was net of 67 over
Tuesday was net of 8 under
Wednesday was net of 32 over
Thursday was net of 135 over
Friday was net of 164 under
Saturday was net of 188 over

Sunday to Tuesday were 1850 cal goals (100 carb).
Wednesday to Friday were 2250 cal goals (200 carb).
Saturday was back to 1850...over 188.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Sunday was net of 170 over Monday was net of 67 over Tuesday was net of 8 under Wednesday was net of 32 over Thursday was net of 135 over Friday was net of 164 under Saturday was net of 188 over Sunday to Tuesday were 1850 cal goals (100 carb). Wednesday to Friday were 2250 cal goals (200 carb). Saturday was back to 1850...over 188. 225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

I'm still getting this right. Fats are difficult to keep low as I want to eat something other than just protein packed foods in place of the missing carb calories. Carbs used to make up 40% of my diet. They now only average 15% of a much smaller caloric diet. Fats also averaged over 100 daily, keeping them lower is hard as I created a habit towards many healthy fats.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[MR-FQ320]

Ok so, when you have earned extra calorie intake from cardio, I personally prefer to take them in the macro split, so 50p/25c/25f on low days and 40/40:20 on high days, so effectively the weight loss is coming from cardio.

This is MFP shortfall in planning and tracking and where a bit of black art comes in.

The macros look good, remind yourself of your bodies requirements, 1-1.5 g / lb of protein and 0.3-0.4g / lb of fat, make the rest up with carbs. Carbs to be after workouts primarily

I say we make inroads into fat loss first, then we can readjust once we've lost a few lbs of fat. Remember : you can't lose muscle overnight, it's only glycogen stores, if it is worrying you then have a refeed day, say 300g carbs, but work all the muscles ! Just keep the faith brother. It takes time and patience, listen to your body, monitor how it reacts to how you feed it, learn how the carbs effect you, then you can predict and manipulate the food quantities to how you you want react. Your doing a good job of a difficult concept to master.

[MR-FQ320]

Oh and try and add in more vegetables, fills out the plate and hardly count towards macros

[marcus300]

Personally I wouldn't do anything drastic like dropping cals to harsh which will have a negative effect on your muscle tissue, ive seen it time and time again its muscle tissue suicide and imho these calorie restricted diets what many go on are disaster for retaining muscle tissue but great at cutting fat, now for me muscle tissue maintenance is the number one priority even in a cut or a bulk. Putting muscle tissue on is so fuking hard there is no way in hell I will waste it away with some of these stupid calorie restricted diets what someone posts or copies out of books. Everyone is different and responds in different ways so the first thing you need to do is see how your body responds and learn from this to contrast a plan to suit your goals but the priority is muscle reservation no matter what your goal.

TDEE calculators are all over the internet so work out what yours comes in at and monitor yourself over the next 7-10 days if your not gaining or losing weight that's your sweet spot to work from, if things are moving in one direction or another change things up until you find your sweet spot of maintenance then work off that to suit your goals. First thing I would do is keep your cals the same but introduce a cardio regime what will put you in a deficit which will start the leaning process off while maintaining your tissue. Once you have come to a brick wall with your gains increase the cardio and slowly drop some of your cals, a carb cycling approach like ive shown you will do wonders IMHO and will also help to maintain your tissue which is key remember you don't want to lose all that weight and a load of muscle tissue which is very common that's why so many go around in circles of gaining and losing and never end up going any further forward because they are stuck or don't know how to cut properly, they just read out of book how you should cut but we are all different and that's why monitoring your response and how your body reacts is key.

[IronClydes]

Ok so, when you have earned extra calorie intake from cardio, I personally prefer to take them in the macro split, so 50p/25c/25f on low days and 40/40:20 on high days, so effectively the weight loss is coming from cardio. This is MFP shortfall in planning and tracking and where a bit of black art comes in. The macros look good, remind yourself of your bodies requirements, 1-1.5 g / lb of protein and 0.3-0.4g / lb of fat, make the rest up with carbs. Carbs to be after workouts primarily I say we make inroads into fat loss first, then we can readjust once we've lost a few lbs of fat. Remember : you can't lose muscle overnight, it's only glycogen stores, if it is worrying you then have a refeed day, say 300g carbs, but work all the muscles ! Just keep the faith brother. It takes time and patience, listen to your body, monitor how it reacts to how you feed it, learn how the carbs effect you, then you can predict and manipulate the food quantities to how you you want react. Your doing a good job of a difficult concept to master.

Understood. Thanks for explaining. Thanks for having patience with my learning curve here.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Everyone is different and responds in different ways so the first thing you need to do is see how your body responds and learn from this to contrast a plan to suit your goals but the priority is muscle reservation no matter what your goal.

First thing I would do is keep your cals the same but introduce a cardio regime what will put you in a deficit which will start the leaning process off while maintaining your tissue.

Once you have come to a brick wall with your gains increase the cardio and slowly drop some of your cals, a carb cycling approach like ive shown you will do wonders IMHO and will also help to maintain your tissue

remember you don't want to lose all that weight and a load of muscle tissue which is very common

that's why monitoring your response and how your body reacts is key.

Thanks for taking the time to share your experience and knowledge, Marcus. That means a lot.

It appears that when you use cardio to increase fat loss, you don't consider those burned calories earned for re-consumption? I'm assuming then that you find your maintenance accounting for the extra calories burned weight lifting.

Following this, if you are cutting at maintenance, then he cardio actually puts you into a caloric deficit. For instance, if I ran 45 minutes I'd then be in about a 700 calorie deficit.

So, what I am currently doing is similar to your approach. I start with a 1000 deficit, but then I earn about 300 calories weightlifting and 5-700 doing cardio. This increases my consumption to my maintenance level. Seems we are just approaching from different sides and serving at the same result. My calculated TDEE does not account for weight lifting calorie needs, it is just my baseline without exercise.

The only difference is that I've jumped right into carb cycling with a cardio induced caloric deficit. Whereas you recommend doing carb cycling after the cardio induced deficit has ceased to produce results.

Am I following this all correctly? If so, it appears I could already be following your recommendations, just calculated the steps differently.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Hardest day of the diet was yesterday. I was getting crabby from low carbs and growing appetite. Green tea with Stevia helped a bit.

Couldn't even earn extra calories from weights as the fire burn on my armpit was too fresh. Did a little biking though pulling kids on trailer. That earned me a frozen yogurt....wife and kids wanted to hit ice cream shop (Mother's Day treat).

Great session back at weights this morning. Healed good so far.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Great workout this morning. Decided to sort pairing a smaller muscle with larger muscle days to give them twice weekly stimulation. Chest and biceps felt great this morning followed by an ab routine.

Been working out fasted for past couple weeks and enjoy it so far. The pre-workout is much more intense on an empty stomach and pumps feel better. I add leucine to pre-workout to prevent muscle catabolism. I'm sure the fasted training will help with fat reduction as well....at least that's what I've read.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

Great day overall. After work I swung by the gym knocked out 30 minutes of jogging and did a little extra calf training... Despite the low carbs I'm actually feeling energetic. Actually getting better at controlling my macros now. Fats and carbs undercontrol protein super high

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.

[IronClydes]

MR FQ,

You still there?

Down 2.5 pounds now. Weighed in at 122.5 this morning. That was after hydrating.

225, 6', 34, 13.8% bf, bench 320, squat 435, dead 465.