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  1. #1
    sdmedic21 is offline Junior Member
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    Unhappy Too many carbs??

    I was 6'2 190lbs. I started my first cycle of Sus-250 and started to eat a grip of protein and alot of carbs. I am 203lbs now. Strength is up, mass is up. However, it looks like I am starting to get a bit of a spare tire. Not much but its def. more than before. Is it the carbs. Should I cut down on them!?!??!? I want to gain mass not fat! not sure how many carbs I am supposed to be even eating??

  2. #2
    Vaj10's Avatar
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    post your diet...

  3. #3
    sdmedic21 is offline Junior Member
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    morning = 3eggs, 2 toast, 1 protein shake w/ 113g of carbs in it.

    Mid morning = salad, peanut butter and jelly sandwhich.

    Lunch = chicken breast w/ protein shake w/ no carbs.

    Mid afternoon = whatever snack I can find ie: couple of hotdogs or another sandwhich etc....

    Dinner = 6oz of steak or chicken. salad. maybe some hard boiled eggs. Another protein shake w/ 113 g of carbs in it.

    In between meals I have snacks such as protein bars, or wheat thins etc....

    Total Carbs per day = around 250 - 300g.
    Total Protein = around 250 - 300g.

    *******
    I am also still cycling. I have about 4 weeks left....

  4. #4
    barbarian's Avatar
    barbarian is offline Banned
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    acualy for cycleing i would eat more carbs but JMO

  5. #5
    rambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbarian
    acualy for cycleing i would eat more carbs but JMO

    No, your problem is that you are taking in 113 grams of carbs per meal twice a day. Your body can't absorb that many, and they are stored as fat. You need to split them up evenly throughout the day, and need to add about 80 simple carbs to your PWO shake. THe rest of your carbs need to be low glycemic It will make all the difference. The rest of your food choices are also bad. Wheat thins and hot dogs are useless. I don't have the time now, but maybe someone else can post more info for you.

  6. #6
    cb25's Avatar
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    rambo hit the nail on the head...

    personally, it's not too many overall carbs...i like to have a good supply of carbs when i'm bulking - however, the 113 g of carbs all at once is a bit much - what type of shake are you using - more importantly, what type of carbs are in it??

    also, it looks to me like you may be underestimating the amount of carbs you're taking in. You're getting 226 between your two shakes, plus peanut butter and jelly sandwiches, plus wheat thins, plus toast...i'd guess more around 400+ g

  7. #7
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Yeah, u have a lot of crappy food items in there.

    You are what you eat, there is truth to that.

    ~SC~

  8. #8
    sdmedic21 is offline Junior Member
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    thanks all of you, ill change my diet around...this site has some good ones....

  9. #9
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Post it again so we can make sure it's all gravy!

    ~SC~

  10. #10
    sdmedic21 is offline Junior Member
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    8am **
    8oz of Oatmeal
    3 eggs and 2 toast 4 peices of bacon
    Orange Juice
    Protein shake

    1030 am **
    PB&J Sandwhich on wheat bread
    Banana

    12 pm **
    Turkey sandwhich w/ cheese on wheat
    vegetables and fruits ie: carrots w/ grapes ?

    3 pm **
    8oz of Yogart (low fat)
    Protein shake

    7pm **
    Mixed Salad w/ chicken in it or piece of steak
    Baked Potato
    Fruit again
    Orange juice

    9pm **
    snack : mixed fruit or trail mix

    **Maybe somewhere I can through some rice in there (brown ?)

    Ofcoarse H2O throughout the day.
    Anybody want to modify it please do.
    My specs = 6'3" 204 lbs
    Last edited by sdmedic21; 12-05-2003 at 03:53 PM.

  11. #11
    sdmedic21 is offline Junior Member
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    I calculated it out to this roughly ofcoarse:
    Calories = 3600
    CH= 350
    Prot = 300
    Fat = 120

    If I want to bulk, what do I need to up?? Or is this sufficient? Thanks

  12. #12
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    CAPS BELOW.........

    Quote Originally Posted by sdmedic21
    8am **
    8oz of Oatmeal
    3 eggs and 2 toast 4 peices of bacon
    Orange Juice
    Protein shake

    TAKE OUT THE JUICE/BACON, MAKE YOUR PROTEIN EGG WHITES AND PROTEIN POWDER MIXED W/WATER. OATS ARE FINE.....

    1030 am **
    PB&J Sandwhich on wheat bread
    Banana

    HORRID.......HAVE A WHEY PROTEIN SHAKE W/WATER AGAIN, ALSO UTILIZE A HEALTHY FAT LIKE FISH OIL, FLAX OIL, ALMONDS, ETC.


    12 pm **
    Turkey sandwhich w/ cheese on wheat
    vegetables and fruits ie: carrots w/ grapes ?

    LOSE THE BREAD.........OPT FOR CHICKEN/YAM, CHICKEN/RICE, STEAK/BROCOLLI, ETC. YOU'LL WANT TO LIMIT FAT INTAKE WHEN YOU DECIDE TO HAVE STARCHES. (MORE TO THAT SPARE TIRE IF U DON'T)

    3 pm **
    8oz of Yogart (low fat)
    Protein shake

    SEE MY SUGGESTION FOR YOUR 10:30 A.M. MEAL

    7pm **
    Mixed Salad w/ chicken in it or piece of steak
    Baked Potato
    Fruit again
    Orange juice

    LOSE THE FRUIT/JUICE.........MAKE THIS MEAL LIKE YOUR 12 P.M. ONE. I'D SAY IF U AREN'T TRAINING, OPT FOR THE STEAK/GREEN VEGGIE TYPE MEAL.


    9pm **
    snack : mixed fruit or trail mix

    NAH, U SHOULD KNOW ABOUT THIS.........UTILIZE A PROTEIN SHAKE W/APPROPRIATE FATS.

    **Maybe somewhere I can through some rice in there (brown ?)

    AFTER YOUR WORKOUT IN YOUR SECOND PWO MEAL. FIRST SHOULD IDEALLY BE DEXTROSE AND WHEY ISOLATE. I BELIEVE YOUR DIET SHOULD HAVE TWO DAYS, ONE FOR DAYS YOU TRAIN, ONE FOR OFF, SO YOU'LL HAVE TO MAKE THOSE ADJUSTMENTS BASED ON MY SUGGESTIONS HERE. AS WELL YOU'LL WANT TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE YOUR PORTIONS CORRECT.

    ~SC~

    Ofcoarse H2O throughout the day.
    Anybody want to modify it please do.
    My specs = 6'3" 204 lbs

  13. #13
    sdmedic21 is offline Junior Member
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    Thank you Swole, what would I do with out ya!!!!

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambo
    No, your problem is that you are taking in 113 grams of carbs per meal twice a day. Your body can't absorb that many, and they are stored as fat. You need to split them up evenly throughout the day, and need to add about 80 simple carbs to your PWO shake. THe rest of your carbs need to be low glycemic It will make all the difference. The rest of your food choices are also bad. Wheat thins and hot dogs are useless. I don't have the time now, but maybe someone else can post more info for you.
    Carbs are hardly ever stored as fat. Dunno what you're smoking.

  15. #15
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowsheep
    Carbs are hardly ever stored as fat. Dunno what you're smoking.
    Indeed they are, dunno what you're snortin'.



    ~SC~

  16. #16
    rainbowsheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwoleCat
    Indeed they are, dunno what you're snortin'.



    ~SC~
    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Carbs are converted to fat by a process called de nova lipgenesis (DNL).

    DNL rarely accounts for more than a few grams of fat synthesized per day, unless you massively overfeed on carbs or are on a very low fat diet. Backed by numerous studies (by Hellerstein and others).

    Did I miss something?

  17. #17
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Yeah, you missed that many over-weight people cannot even include carbs period on a diet, as with them being so carb sensitive, they won't lose bodyfat. So, if their insulin gets tickled in the least bit, forget about it. It's not about losing fat AND muscle by reducing caloric intake like mad. You want bodyfat gone and lean mass preserved.

    If you eat more than you burn when it comes to carbs, they will be stored as fat. 113 in each of those meals from that particular source would definitely have me folding that hand.

    ~SC~

  18. #18
    rainbowsheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwoleCat
    Yeah, you missed that many over-weight people cannot even include carbs period on a diet, as with them being so carb sensitive, they won't lose bodyfat. So, if their insulin gets tickled in the least bit, forget about it. It's not about losing fat AND muscle by reducing caloric intake like mad. You want bodyfat gone and lean mass preserved.

    If you eat more than you burn when it comes to carbs, they will be stored as fat. 113 in each of those meals from that particular source would definitely have me folding that hand.

    ~SC~
    That doesn't mean that the carbs will be stored as fat. The excess fat is stored readily, but the body generally burns off most carbs (unless those two conditions I mentioned earlier apply).

    Even though the body burns off the carbs, when it's doing so, it stores the fat you eat.

    So, if you were to overeat with carbs and fat, the carbs get burnt, the fat gets stored. The carbs are what causes the fat to get stored, but the carbs themselves are not stored as fat.

  19. #19
    sdmedic21 is offline Junior Member
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    Here's my two cents. I don't know alot about healthy living b/c I just started. However, I do know alot about the way the body works via I am a Paramedic. Swolecat is correct about his theories on carb and fat, and what the body does about excess carbs. Generally with a low carb diet your body has to burn fat for energy ie: Atkins. So with too many carbs the body stores it, for later use. I can go on for ever about gluconeogenesis and protein synthesis but I'll spare you.

    BESIDES!!! LOOK AT HIS PICS!!! He must know a thing or two!!

  20. #20
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowsheep
    That doesn't mean that the carbs will be stored as fat. The excess fat is stored readily, but the body generally burns off most carbs (unless those two conditions I mentioned earlier apply).

    Even though the body burns off the carbs, when it's doing so, it stores the fat you eat.

    So, if you were to overeat with carbs and fat, the carbs get burnt, the fat gets stored. The carbs are what causes the fat to get stored, but the carbs themselves are not stored as fat.
    I give up, it's evident you aren't following.

    ANY EXCESS FUEL/MACRO, even beloved protein, can eventually be stored as fat if it's in abundance at one period of time. Especially w/carbs, too much sugar (all carbs are sugars, different chain lengths) will be stored as fat, this has nothing to do w/fat being stored that was ingested w/the meal. If you do not burn it off, it will be stored!

    End of story.

    ~SC~

  21. #21
    rainbowsheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwoleCat
    I give up, it's evident you aren't following.

    ANY EXCESS FUEL/MACRO, even beloved protein, can eventually be stored as fat if it's in abundance at one period of time. Especially w/carbs, too much sugar (all carbs are sugars, different chain lengths) will be stored as fat, this has nothing to do w/fat being stored that was ingested w/the meal. If you do not burn it off, it will be stored!

    End of story.

    ~SC~
    What is the process that sugars undergo to be stored as fat?

    DNL.

    Which doesn't occur in humans often, unless 1) Diet is very low in fat or 2) Massively overeat on carbs

    If you can explain how sugars can readily be converted to fat without undergoing DNL, I'd love to hear the theories.

  22. #22
    rainbowsheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sdmedic21
    Here's my two cents. I don't know alot about healthy living b/c I just started. However, I do know alot about the way the body works via I am a Paramedic. Swolecat is correct about his theories on carb and fat, and what the body does about excess carbs. Generally with a low carb diet your body has to burn fat for energy ie: Atkins. So with too many carbs the body stores it, for later use. I can go on for ever about gluconeogenesis and protein synthesis but I'll spare you.

    BESIDES!!! LOOK AT HIS PICS!!! He must know a thing or two!!
    His pics are impressive, I'll give you that. And he's correct about not not eating carbs. I just disagree on him that carbs are rarely stored as fat, but they rather block fat oxidation.

    Feel free to go on on gluconeogenesis, but I don't see how that has ANYTHING to do with this discussion.

    I wouldn't mind being enlightened though.

  23. #23
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    I'm afraid you're not realizing that the point was to not consume too many carbs, especially per sitting as the 113 example above. You've asked me to explain how sugars are converted to fat, and I've already said that any macro in over-abundance will be stored as bodyfat, no matter how much fat is in the meal. All the worse if that's the case..........

    I'm done enlightening, sorry, I'm very busy.

    ~SC~

  24. #24
    rambo's Avatar
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    Below in caps.

    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowsheep
    What is the process that sugars undergo to be stored as fat?

    DNL.

    Which doesn't occur in humans often, unless

    1) Diet is very low in fat or
    HENCE THE ACTUAL INCREASE IN OBESITY SINCE THE INCEPTION OF FAT FREE/LOW FAT FOODS IN AMERICA, BRINGIN ABOUT THE SUBSTITUTION OF FATS FOR THINGS SUCH AS HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP AND OVERPROCESSED SUGARS. THE AVERAGE DIET IS STILL OFTEN HIGH IN FAT, BUT THE RATIOS OF CARBS ARE OFTEN MUCH, MUCH HIGHER.



    2) Massively overeat on carbs
    MASSIVELY OVERATING IS A VAGUE STATEMENT. 90% OF PEOPLE OVEREAT ON CARBOHYDRATES FOR THE AMOUNT OF MAINTENENCE REQUIRED. A 170 POUND MAN WITH 17% BODYFAT AT 5'7 DOES NOT NEED TO INTAKE THE AMOUNT OF CARBS RECOMENDED BY THE FDA CONSIDERING HIS SEDENTARY LIFESTYLE.

    IF A PERSON DOES NOT BURN OFF EXCESS CARBS, THEY WILL STORE THEM SOMEWHERE. GRANTED DNL DOES OCCUR, OBVIOUSLY, BUT SO DOES CARBOHYDRATE STORAGE AS FAT. WHATEVER IS NOT BURNED OFF, STORED AS GLYCOGEN FOR USE IN THE MUSCLES, OR TAKE TO THE LIVER, IS GOING TO BE PUT SOMEWHERE. WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL TAKES IN 113 CARBS AT ONE SITTING HE IS OBVIOUSLY NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO USE THEM. IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A MEDICAL BACKGROUND, AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT WHAT SCIENTIFIC ACADEMIA TEACHES US IS RELEVEANT TO ONLY PARTS OF THE POPULATION THAT HAS NORMAL FUNCTIONS. WHEN AN INDIVIDUAL WISHES TO MANIPULATE THINGS LIKE MACRONUTRITIONAL INTAKE, THEY DO NOT NECESSARILY FOLLOW PROPER NUTRIONAL GUIDELINES, IN ORDER TO GET RESULTS MORE SPECIFIC TO HIS CAUSE.

    If you can explain how sugars can readily be converted to fat without undergoing DNL, I'd love to hear the theories.
    Enough Caps for now...

    Remember that the liver has the ability to convert glucose into fat, as well is it can do with fructose, even if that's not the main way it occurs. I hope that eveyone does realize that without carbs, which induce insulin , fat will not be stored without carbs causing them to be stored that way.
    Last edited by rambo; 12-06-2003 at 06:32 PM.

  25. #25
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Amen.

    ~SC~

  26. #26
    rainbowsheep's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwoleCat
    I'm afraid you're not realizing that the point was to not consume too many carbs, especially per sitting as the 113 example above. You've asked me to explain how sugars are converted to fat, and I've already said that any macro in over-abundance will be stored as bodyfat, no matter how much fat is in the meal. All the worse if that's the case..........

    I'm done enlightening, sorry, I'm very busy.

    ~SC~
    I'm sorry, you haven't explained how sugars are metabolized into fat. You just say that they are, but don't give any physiological explanation for the process, or bother to point out the mistake(s) in my posts.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambo
    Below in caps.



    Enough Caps for now...

    Remember that the liver has the ability to convert glucose into fat, as well is it can do with fructose, even if that's not the main way it occurs. I hope that eveyone does realize that without carbs, which induce insulin, fat will not be stored without carbs causing them to be stored that way.
    Are you saying that fat can't be stored without insulin ?

    If you are, that's completely wrong.

  28. #28
    rambo's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, what type of answer are you looking for? Would you like me to delve into cellular pathways in order to answer your questions? Where exactly do you think excess sugars go? I honestly can't understand what you would like as an answer. I just told you the liver has the ability to convert glucose to fat (actually, it stores glucose IN fat cells). So if you really want me to write up a precis on the subject I will, I just don't think it's necessary. Now that you know, you can figure out the rest for yourself, as this thread didn't even call for an in-depth analysis.
    Last edited by rambo; 12-07-2003 at 01:47 AM.

  29. #29
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by rambo
    I'm sorry, what type of answer are you looking for? Would you like me to delve into cellular pathways in order to answer your questions? Where exactly do you think excess sugars go? I honestly can't understand what you would like as an answer. I just told you the liver has the ability to convert glucose to fat (actually, it stores glucose IN fat cells). So if you really want me to write up a precis on the subject I will, I just don't think it's necessary. Now that you know, you can figure out the rest for yourself, as this thread didn't even call for an in-depth analysis.
    Thank you for echoing my sentiments exactly.

    Rainbow, I applaud your energy, but you're asking for like 100 diff explanations of things that need not be explained. If you know you can fly from California to Florida, do you really need to know how the plane operates, what the pilots do, etc? No you don't.

    If you don't understand excess sugars are converted to FAT, you're elevator doesn't go to the top floor. How about utilizing some of your energy in other threads to help out people w/their actual diets? That'd be a great help.

    As for the "tactile" study you are so hung up on for some reason, as if this discussion is a library research challenge, here's a piece from healthgoods.com

    "Carbohydrates
    These are the chief source of energy for body functioning and muscle activity. Carbohydrates are necessary for the regulation of protein and fat metabolism. The main carbohydrates found in foods are sugars, starches and fiber. Simple sugars are found in fruits, honey and refined sugar and are easily digested. Starches are more complex and are found in plants, vegetables and grains. These more complex carbohydrates require greater digestive action to be broken down into simple sugars. Fiber, although contributes little to energy needs, is helpful in regulating sugars in the body and aid in intestinal elimination.

    All sugars and starches are converted, by the process of digestion, into glucose which is a simple sugar. This simple sugar is used as fuel for the body or is stored in the muscle and liver as glycogen. Once the glycogen storage capacity is filled up, the excess glucose is converted to fat to be used as a reserve source of fuel. Carbohydrates are the primary source of energy and are the most efficient at producing energy."

    If you don't understand that, might be time to put down the snifter.

    ~SC~
    Last edited by SwoleCat; 12-07-2003 at 09:59 AM.

  30. #30
    SwoleCat is offline AR Hall of Fame
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainbowsheep
    Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Carbs are converted to fat by a process called de nova lipgenesis (DNL).

    DNL rarely accounts for more than a few grams of fat synthesized per day, unless you massively overfeed on carbs or are on a very low fat diet. Backed by numerous studies (by Hellerstein and others).

    Did I miss something?
    Also, you are correct in the above, but I'm lost as to exactly why you are "arguing" with us? You keep creating "points" for us to prove for one reason or another, when no one has disagreed w/you. Our point that is you DON'T want to over-feed on carbs, we all agree there................what's the issue??????? You did miss something, yes, and that is that we are all in agreement that too many carbs are stored as fat. You think it only accounts for a bit of fat storage, however obese women tend to easily store excess carbs far more than leaner women, men as well.

    (Taken from R. McDevitt, S. Bott, M. Harding, et al. De novo lipogenesis during controlled overfeeding with sucrose or glucose in lean and obese women. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition 74: 737-746 (December 2001) [Correspondence: R. M. McDevitt, Department of Biochemistry and Nutrition. SAC. Ayr KA6 5HW, Scotland, UK. E-mail: r.mcdevitt@au.sac.ac.uk.])

    Having helped 1000's, it's very key to pay attention to carb intake, that is all I'm saying. I'm a bodybuilder/model/trainer/Internet entrepreneur, so I know of where I speak, believe that. I'm officially finished here, I can't banter back and forth like this, hell, we've gone over the subject already and now you have your scientific works cited so let's hope that "jonesing" is filled.

    ~SC~

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