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  1. #1
    ptbyjason Guest

    Is your 10cc Vial really Underfilled?

    POSTED BY THE IRON GAME


    I have seen a lot of posts complaining lately about how there 10ml vial is underfilled or "appears" to be underfilled. It has probably been explained before but for some of those out there who dont understand the logic behind it do the following.

    Prepare the following:

    *A 2cc syringe, (should be capable of 2.5 cc's)
    *A 21, 22, or 23 Gauge pin
    *A glass half full of water

    1. Put the pin on the syringe and remove the cap.

    2. Place the pin in the water and pull back on the plunger until the syringe is full and cannot take anymore water.

    3. Turn the syringe upside down so that the pin is facing the ceiling / roof.

    4. Flick the tiny air bubble at the bottom so that it rises towards the pin.

    5. Start pushing on the plunger until the air bubble is out and the water is at the 2 cc point (make sure you shoot it back into the cup).

    6. Stop, you are now at the 2cc mark. Now if you pull back on the plunger you and examine the syringe you will discover there is actually 2.2 - 2.3cc's of liquid.

    If you use a 5cc syringe then this would be more.

    Thus for example, say you were injecting winstrol at 200mgs all in one shot (apply it to oil based steroids as well but the total amount in the syringe will be slightly different) Well back to the winstrol, if the solution was 100mgs/cc and you thought you were injecting 200mgs in the 2cc's you would actually be injecting 230mgs. This does not seem too much in one shot but multiply it by 10 and it works out to 300mgs or 3 cc's wasted that you didnt realize.

    If you have 2 10 cc vials of something and wish to run them for 10 weeks at an equal amount always allow for this flaw. Otherwise your cycle will be cut short.

    Peace,
    The Iron Game

  2. #2
    dane26's Avatar
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    learned that one the hard way......i wish i had foung this board before my first cycle

  3. #3
    PaPaPumP's Avatar
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    I'm learning it the hard way right now!! Oh well, better crack the ole piggy bank and get S'more.

  4. #4
    flexshack is offline Member
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    hey great post! i just read it for the first time. i have one question though. why does this happen?? why is there really 2.2-2.3 in the syringe? thanks. i hope you guys still check this post.
    flex

  5. #5
    PaPaPumP's Avatar
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    You know the little part where the needle is connected to? Well, that holds about .2cc ...sooooo miniscule, but like IG said, can mean so much after ten cc's. If you go up to the 2cc line, you are actually drawing 2.2-2.3ccs. Try drawing just under the line, and see what happens.

  6. #6
    flexshack is offline Member
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    thanks papapump but my question was already answered a while ago. i made another thread pertaining to this topic in the regular questions area and told them to come to this thread. but thanks anyway.
    flex

  7. #7
    Terinox's Avatar
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    Does that mean that you should actually withdraw less liquid? So if you where doing the Winstron as in the example above, should you only be withdrawing about 1.7cc's from the bottle???

  8. #8
    jamotech's Avatar
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    .

    I just tried it. I used a terumo and the difference is about .2. Now I feel bad about asking my buddy why 10ml of norandren was short. To answer your question Terinox, the theory seems to be that if you withdrew 1.7cc with no bubbles it would be about 2cc when you pulled the plunger down, reading it between the 1/2cc and the 2 1/2cc. Try it out, didn't fully understand it until I did.
    Last edited by jamotech; 05-10-2002 at 10:29 PM.

  9. #9
    tryingtogetbig's Avatar
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    Okay, what about this one. I think I am really doing it wrong!!

    You withdraw with one 21 gauge pin (and it holds .2 cc), take it off and put on 23 gauge pin to shoot.

    Am I flat wasting .2 cc each and every time I shoot because when I throw away the pin I suck it out with it is holding .2cc's??? That sucks!!

    peace,

    ttgb

  10. #10
    demetri's Avatar
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    Wasted Juice

    I have a friend that wants to try and salvage all that good juice out of all the used pins. I think he's nuts and a little cheap. You're just not going to get all that juice out since there is nothing to push it out of the pin.

    You just never think about it when you're getting ready for a contest. Amps are easier, less math.

  11. #11
    King Samson's Avatar
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    Well if you want to shoot 2cc's of a liquid then you should still fill to the 2cc mark. If you pulled 1.8cc's in order to only take 2cc's out then you are shortening your body .2cc's. Just don't be upset if you end up using more gear then you had anticipated. Always remember that you will lose 2cc's out of every 10cc's due to this.

  12. #12
    Big Cat is offline New Member
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    Actually none of this true.

    1.Syringes are accurate medical devices. The liquid that is in the tip and needle is accounted for on the measuring. If you do it this manner, you will actually be getting less gear than you think instead of accounting for extra.

    2.Lets for arguments sake say that this is so, you would not have "wasted " 30 mg of gear. You would have used an extra 30 mg of gear and gotten the extra results because of it, even if that isn't a whole lot.

  13. #13
    Tystick's Avatar
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    So what's the final answer, is or isn't cc's lost due to this. Is there a way to prevent this or save that last drop?

  14. #14
    dave37 is offline New Member
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    I too have had this problem,Thanks for the insight Iron Game

  15. #15
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    Bump back to the top so all you new faces get a chance to read this.

    Aragorn

  16. #16
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    Yes I know all the tricks and my brovel was still under.... I was short about 1/2 cc at the end of my bottle.

  17. #17
    tyron14 is offline New Member
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    Re: Wasted Juice

    Originally posted by demetri
    I have a friend that wants to try and salvage all that good juice out of all the used pins. I think he's nuts and a little cheap. You're just not going to get all that juice out since there is nothing to push it out of the pin.

    You just never think about it when you're getting ready for a contest. Amps are easier, less math.
    I was thinking about saving the juice in used pins too. I think it's possible to draw some air in the syringe, turn the syringe up-side-up (pin facing the floor), tap the syringe so the leftover juice falls to the bottom and collects near the pin attachment point, and inject the juice back into the vial with the extra air. But I worry about contamination and possible infection.

    It's not because I'm cheap. It's because juice is so hard to get I want to make the most out of it. Since I'm only doing 0.5cc (T400) at a time, 0.2 cc waste is quite significant. I'm saving all my used needles but I only got 2 injections so far (it's my first cycle) so I havn't tried it.

  18. #18
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    Re: Re: Wasted Juice

    Originally posted by tyron14


    I was thinking about saving the juice in used pins too. I think it's possible to draw some air in the syringe, turn the syringe up-side-up (pin facing the floor), tap the syringe so the leftover juice falls to the bottom and collects near the pin attachment point, and inject the juice back into the vial with the extra air. But I worry about contamination and possible infection.
    Infection? Ya think??

  19. #19
    King Samson's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Big Cat
    Actually none of this true.

    1.Syringes are accurate medical devices. The liquid that is in the tip and needle is accounted for on the measuring.
    You are correct that syringes are accurate medical devices, but this is why syriges do not count the liquid in the pin on the measuring marks. You would be shorting yourself the liquid in the pin because it never makes it to your body if it was counted. Thus making the syringe inaccurate if it were counted.

  20. #20
    10InchMember is offline New Member
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    Heres one for you.

    If you look at that area between the plunger and the needle, you will see that "extra" fluid you speak of. Now shoot the fluid out of the syringe and you will see that the area still has that "extra" fluid in it. Since the plunger does not press all the way to the needle, there is no way to get that liquid out.

  21. #21
    bigcat3727's Avatar
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    This is one of the coolest Posts ever!

  22. #22
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    Why not test it by draining a 10 cc bottle into 5 2 cc syringes and see if it measures up... Im sure no one will wanna try out because of the hygienic factor to it all... just a thought

  23. #23
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    You can not assume that a they took into account the volume inside the needle because they would have had to have made an assumption which by definition is not accurate. For them to have accurately taken into account the volume inside the needle they would have had to have known exactly what length and gauge needle you were using and this typically varies.

    In anycase this is all moot, the plunger only has the ability to discharge as far as the back of the needle meaning the volume is left in the syringe. An easy test is to watch your next injection and shoot the substance. After you have injected everything pull out the syringe and pull the plunger back. There WILL be a small amount left inside. This will be more or less noticable based on the length and size needle you are using.

    Also if we really want to get technical. Here's a bit of common sense chemistry. Milligrams is a unit of WEIGHT not a magical measure of strength. When I say there are 200mg/ml of test enan. That means there are 200mg(weight) worth of hormone with attached ester disolved in 1ml of oil. In all reality that means you are only getting roughly 180mg of actual test because the other 20mg is the ester itself. The weight of the ester has to be taken into account also. So when you take 3ml of t200 per week you are only really getting 540mg of hormone per week.

  24. #24
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    bump

  25. #25
    Vascularity's Avatar
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    Im puzzled, noone thought about shooting with like 0,5cc air in the plunger? That's what I do and it works just fine. So at the most I lose a drop which is coating the inside of the plunger.

  26. #26
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    Bump Im all confused now.. How do I get a full ten weeks out of 20ml using 22g 1.5 inch pins?

  27. #27
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    the syringes area accurate by themselves without the pin on them. there isnt really a way to safely retain the lil bit left in the pin. just order more thant you need and save it for next time. as for shooting an extra .5cc or air into my leg or glute i dont think so i deff wouldnt reccomend doing that.

  28. #28
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    I just pull out to the line after 1cc and by the time I'm done shooting all that's left is a lil bit.

    I also order an extra bottle when I go on. A lil extra won't hurt ya!

  29. #29
    RideR1 is offline Junior Member
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    ok here is an idea.... get one fresh plunger 2cc whatever.. After every time you shoot turn the syringe with needle still attached down (pin facing floor). Detach pin from used syring. Attach your fresh syringe and turn pin to ceiling draw the plunger out. It will bring remaining oil back into syringe. Do this after every time you shoot and see how much accumulates in the one syringe. This method will not leave one drop anywhere unfound... Lets see how much is really wasted!!! if ANY!

  30. #30
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    Why not draw some air with the needle to the ceiling, take the pin off, and move the plunger until gear almost comes out? See what it is at then. Then you can put on your new needle, and go from there.

  31. #31
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    im glad i use ampules. no need to worry about all this

  32. #32
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    easy

    just pull back on the plunger to suck out all the juice in the needle, now look at your cc level. Simple.

  33. #33
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    i just get extra

  34. #34
    dragon69 is offline Member
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    you think maybe getting a vial of b12 for example, drawing 1/4-1/2CC of it first then drawing your gear in can get around this? I'm unsure of whether it will just mix with the b12 throughout the chamber or whether it would stay in the plunger end so you're only wasting about $0.50 of b12 when fully plunged.

  35. #35
    Boldlygo is offline Banned
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    I was just reading through some of these old educational threads and was surprised to come across this one.... there use to be tons of threads on here about how to get that extra juice out. Haven't looked for them in some time, but I remember a lot of them 2 years or so ago.... anyway if this helps anyone here is what I do, and I believe I am getting pretty much all of it....

    Take your first needle (drawing needle) and draw out just under the amount of liquid you want to inject from your vial (this will depend on the size of your needle etc... but after you do it a few times, you'll figure it out). Pull needle out of vial and pull back on plunger sucking air in to the syringe and sucking in the extra juice out of the needle and that little area. For example - if you want to inject 1cc, draw out 1 or 2 lines below the 1cc mark on the syringe, and then pull out of vial and draw air into the syringe, I usually draw it to the 2 or 3cc mark and you can easily see that there is now 1 full cc in the syringe, ie.. the liquid goes from the 1cc mark to the 2cc mark in the syringe.

    Next take off the drawing needle and put on the new needle (injection needle). Push plunger gently until you can see liquid entering and filling that little area between the needle and the syringe. Then take syringe and point it needle down and suck just a little bit of air into the syringe so that a little air bubble rises to the top of the syringe and leaves the liquid in that little needle area.

    Finally stick yourself with the needle, aspirate , and depress plunger until all the liquid goes into you and then the little air bubble at the end forces in the remaining liquid in that little area between needle and syringe (wish I could remember the name of that area....)

    This use to be called an air lock, it might still be for all I know.... this little air bubble not only gets that last bit of liquid out, but also locks the liquid into your muscle and avoids any leakage. This is perfectly safe (as long as you keep the air to a very small amount) and works great for me.... has for a long time....

    hope this helps someone !!

    Thanks !!

  36. #36
    Mr_Bishop is offline New Member
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    Boldlygo excellent post...but some people will be scared to draw air back into the syringe for good reason

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tryingto******
    Okay, what about this one. I think I am really doing it wrong!!

    You withdraw with one 21 gauge pin (and it holds .2 cc), take it off and put on 23 gauge pin to shoot.

    Am I flat wasting .2 cc each and every time I shoot because when I throw away the pin I suck it out with it is holding .2cc's??? That sucks!!

    peace,

    ttgb
    I draw B-12 first to make sure I get all the juice out first.

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