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  1. #1
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Insulin Dosing Protocol for First Time Users.

    Iíve recently had several enquiries from guys interested in running Insulin during cycles, or at PCT. Most(if not all) seemed very fearful of Insulin. And with good reason. If Insulin is run incorrectly a host of things could happen to you, including death. With that said, I refer you to Mr. Sparkles thread on Insulin. All you questions can be answered thereÖ.



    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=192403





    This post is just a simple guide for first time insulin users to follow in a safe, and effective manner.

    I urge you to invest in a glucometer. This will give you a close estimation of where your BG(Blood Glucose) levels are (Safe Zone 70-90,but independent upon each individual).You want to take in adequate amounts of carbs, but not too much. As the excess will be stored as fat. And yes, if you arenít careful, you can add quite a bit of excess body fat. As youíll see in my dosing example below, we drop carbs slightly as to not to acquire excess BF.






    As you already might know. The basic rule is 10g Dextrose to 1 iu of Insulin. Now the trick is to get in tune with your body so to take advantage of the insulin spike, which allows nutrients to be shuttled to the muscle cells rapidly, doing so without taking in excess carbs which equates to body fat.



    Below is a 30 day cycle(which is recommended) for Insulin. I donít use Insulin on off days from the gym. Some like to use Insulin on off days in the morning to fight off the catabolic state weíre in upon awakening. I feel upon awakening in the morning a shake consisting of Whey/Dextrose would be sufficient in bringing you out of this catabolic state from fasting over an 8 hour period while sleeping. Remember, you can become Insulin insensitive if abused. So by running slin on training days only reduces that threat.



    Iíll use the 5 day training split as an example here. That will give you 20 days ďonĒ slin.



    Day 1 : 5 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 2 : 5 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 3 : 5 iu slin/50g Dextrose



    Congratulations!! Youíve survived thus far. I assume(hope) youíve been monitoring your BG levels. You probably have noticed that you are in the higher range using 50g of dextrose PWO. Now itís time to drop the carbs slightly. Donít fret. This should be more than ample amounts(of carbs) to get you through to your PPWO meal.



    Day 4 : 5 iu slin/40g Dextrose

    Day 5 : 5 iu slin/40g Dextrose



    At this point you should have a good idea of how you react with Insulin in terms of BG levels vs. carb intake .



    Letís up the doseÖÖ



    Day 6 : 6 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 7 : 6 iu slin/50g Dextrose



    By this point in time you should be feeling good(ie;more confident),but still respectful to Insulin. Letís test the waters for 3 days to give you the feel of things. By that I mean weíll drop the carb intake slightly so you can find a comfortable ratio in regards to iuís vs. carbs per gram.



    Day 8 : 6 iu slin/40g Dextrose

    Day 9 : 6 iu slin/40g Dextrose

    Day 10 : 6 iu slin/40g Dextrose



    Now, the above ratioís are safe and effective. You can stop right here and continue on for the next 10 days at the above doses/ratioís. Or you can move forward slightly.



    Day 11 : 7 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 12 : 7 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 13 : 7 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 14 : 7 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 15 : & iu slin/50g Dextrose



    If you felt confident with the above protocol.You could experiment on days 14-15 and drop your dextrose to 40g.If you do so, please monitor your BG levels every 15 minutes or so. And have glucose tabs, or another source of quick carbs handy (like orange juice) to stave off any possible signs of hypoglycemia. Donít panic should this happen,just drink a glass of orange juice, or similar, and in 10 minutes the symptoms will have subsided.



    Ok, on to your final week.



    Day 16 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose

    Day 17 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose

    Day 18 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose

    Day 19 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose

    Day 20 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose



    Congratulations! You just completed your first cycle/experience with Insulin in a safe an effective manner. I stopped at 8 iuís, Being that is enough to get your feet wet with the drug. You can experiment later on. This was simply a guide.



    One last thing. Guys ask ďWhich way is better?Ē To take your Whey/Dextrose in one shake, or Dextrose first, and whey 15 minutes laterĒ?

    Bottom line is, itís just preference.



    ***All Veteran Insulin users,please feel free to add to this****

    ~Pinnacle~

  2. #2
    MatrixGuy's Avatar
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    Pinnacle, fantastic post.

  3. #3
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    wow, very nice PINN. thanks for the time

  4. #4
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    Iíve recently had several enquiries from guys interested in running Insulin during cycles, or at PCT. Most(if not all) seemed very fearful of Insulin. And with good reason. If Insulin is run incorrectly a host of things could happen to you, including death. With that said, I refer you to Mr. Sparkles thread on Insulin. All you questions can be answered thereÖ.






    This post is just a simple guide for first time insulin users to follow in a safe, and effective manner.

    I urge you to invest in a glucometer. This will give you a close estimation of where your BG(Blood Glucose) levels are (Safe Zone 70-90,but independent upon each individual).You want to take in adequate amounts of carbs, but not too much. As the excess will be stored as fat. And yes, if you arenít careful, you can add quite a bit of excess body fat. As youíll see in my dosing example below, we drop carbs slightly as to not to acquire excess BF.






    As you already might know. The basic rule is 10g Dextrose to 1 iu of Insulin. Now the trick is to get in tune with your body so to take advantage of the insulin spike, which allows nutrients to be shuttled to the muscle cells rapidly, doing so without taking in excess carbs which equates to body fat.



    Below is a 30 day cycle(which is recommended) for Insulin. I donít use Insulin on off days from the gym. Some like to use Insulin on off days in the morning to fight off the catabolic state weíre in upon awakening. I feel upon awakening in the morning a shake consisting of Whey/Dextrose would be sufficient in bringing you out of this catabolic state from fasting over an 8 hour period while sleeping. Remember, you can become Insulin insensitive if abused. So by running slin on training days only reduces that threat.



    Iíll use the 5 day training split as an example here. That will give you 20 days ďonĒ slin.



    Day 1 : 5 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 2 : 5 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 3 : 5 iu slin/50g Dextrose



    Congratulations!! Youíve survived thus far. I assume(hope) youíve been monitoring your BG levels. You probably have noticed that you are in the higher range using 50g of dextrose PWO. Now itís time to drop the carbs slightly. Donít fret. This should be more than ample amounts(of carbs) to get you through to your PPWO meal.



    Day 4 : 5 iu slin/40g Dextrose

    Day 5 : 5 iu slin/40g Dextrose



    At this point you should have a good idea of how you react with Insulin in terms of BG levels vs. carb intake .



    Letís up the doseÖÖ



    Day 6 : 6 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 7 : 6 iu slin/50g Dextrose



    By this point in time you should be feeling good(ie;more confident),but still respectful to Insulin. Letís test the waters for 3 days to give you the feel of things. By that I mean weíll drop the carb intake slightly so you can find a comfortable ratio in regards to iuís vs. carbs per gram.



    Day 8 : 6 iu slin/40g Dextrose

    Day 9 : 6 iu slin/40g Dextrose

    Day 10 : 6 iu slin/40g Dextrose



    Now, the above ratioís are safe and effective. You can stop right here and continue on for the next 10 days at the above doses/ratioís. Or you can move forward slightly.



    Day 11 : 7 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 12 : 7 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 13 : 7 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 14 : 7 iu slin/50g Dextrose

    Day 15 : & iu slin/50g Dextrose



    If you felt confident with the above protocol.You could experiment on days 14-15 and drop your dextrose to 40g.If you do so, please monitor your BG levels every 15 minutes or so. And have glucose tabs, or another source of quick carbs handy (like orange juice) to stave off any possible signs of hypoglycemia. Donít panic should this happen,just drink a glass of orange juice, or similar, and in 10 minutes the symptoms will have subsided.



    Ok, on to your final week.



    Day 16 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose

    Day 17 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose

    Day 18 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose

    Day 19 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose

    Day 20 : 8 iu slin/60g Dextrose



    Congratulations! You just completed your first cycle/experience with Insulin in a safe an effective manner. I stopped at 8 iuís, Being that is enough to get your feet wet with the drug. You can experiment later on. This was simply a guide.



    One last thing. Guys ask ďWhich way is better?Ē To take your Whey/Dextrose in one shake, or Dextrose first, and whey 15 minutes laterĒ?

    Bottom line is, itís just preference.



    ***All Veteran Insulin users,please feel free to add to this****

    ~Pinnacle~
    is wise.
    very wise.

    one shake.

  5. #5
    goose is offline Banned
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    When you find the dose that you like in your first cycle,lets say 10iu.I can start with that dose on the second cycle or do you have to work your way up again?

    goose4...........

  6. #6
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    When I end with 10IU, I tend to go back with 7-8 on my next run for the first couple days. Once your find what dose works best for you I don't think it would hurt to start back at that dosage. But, better safe than sorry.

    Also, could you elaborate on what your PPWO meal should consist of and when it should be eaten? With humalog. Thx.
    Last edited by IBdmfkr; 11-24-2005 at 08:40 PM.

  7. #7
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    When you find the dose that you like in your first cycle,lets say 10iu.I can start with that dose on the second cycle or do you have to work your way up again?

    goose4...........
    no way, you are an expert ....lol..............

  8. #8
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    When you find the dose that you like in your first cycle,lets say 10iu.I can start with that dose on the second cycle or do you have to work your way up again?

    goose4...........
    you can go right to that dose.Reason being you'll already know your tolerance to what you can handle carbs wise vs. insulin intake.But if you want to play it safe the first few days,just run a liter dose to get used to things.

    Say you find your "sweet spot" at 60g dextrose for 10 iu's,and don't see an increase in BF,no signs of hypo to a great degree,then you've got it zero'd in pretty well.

    ~Pinnacle~

  9. #9
    IBdmfkr's Avatar
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    So what should you shoot for BG-wise to hit the "sweet spot". More on the lower range closer to being hypo?

  10. #10
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBdmfkr
    Also, could you elaborate on what your PPWO meal should consist of and when it should be eaten? With humalog. Thx.
    I eat my PPWO meal about an hour after my PWO shake.If I'm hungry,I'll eat it sooner.


    8 oz chicken breast/1 cup brown rice/some green,leafy vegetables.


    ~Pinnacle~

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by IBdmfkr
    So what should you shoot for BG-wise to hit the "sweet spot". More on the lower range closer to being hypo?
    It's going to vary from person to person.But for me it's around 75 ish.Which is on the lower end.


    ~Pinnacle~

  12. #12
    oswaldosalcedo's Avatar
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    as the time run, there is more tolerance.

  13. #13
    IBdmfkr's Avatar
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    Great advice. Thank you.

  14. #14
    goose is offline Banned
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    I like the term zero'd in.Zero being perfect ratio balance between safe and not getting fat.Makes perfect sence.Every person has his perfect level,you just have to find it ,which seems fun and a bit of a Chalange.

    goose4....

  15. #15
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    Great post Pinn.... Will definetley be giving this a try after the xmas holiday...

  16. #16
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    great post pinn

    i myself did it the other way around, i worked my way up from 4iu and every workout i upped it an 1iu with the rule of thumb of 10gram dex/1iu slin. when i hit the 10iu mark i slowly lowered my dex. i feel that that is a safer way of aproach but i did put on some bodyfat that first cycle.

    -rodge

  17. #17
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    I also increase my insulin dose by 1IU every workout till I get to 10IU, once on 10IU stay on that dose and only "then" start playing around with your carbohydrate intake amount. So once on 10IU, if you feel comfy to lower your dex intake, then drop from 100g to about 90g of dex and so on till you find a comfortable zone.

    -Gear

  18. #18
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    I'm at 10 IU Slin and 50g Dex. I did mine the other way around to. Started at 5IU's Slin with 50g Dex for a few weeks then added 1 IU Slin everyday until I got to 10 IU's with the same 50g Dex. No more distended abdomen. I might drop the Dex down some now..

  19. #19
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    Wow great post and thanks for the time spent. Some may not realize the amount of time it takes to write something up like this let alone the knowledge.

    Thank You

  20. #20
    fishorcutbait is offline Junior Member
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    Good post for those considering slin, thanks!

  21. #21
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    bump

  22. #22
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    I'm going to bump this up since I'm being asked alot about how to run insulin andmore-so how to run it and put on MINIMAL AMOUNTS OF BODY FAT!
    This thread has helped many,and hopefully it can help a few more.You can take the super safe approach and start at 10 ius slin/100 g dextrose.But I assure you that you'll wind up looking like a dough boy after a 30 day run.My way is very safe and you'll put on minimal BF if you follow the protocol above.

    ~Pinnacle~

  23. #23
    drew24 is offline Banned
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    pinn whats the best slin to run

  24. #24
    Random is offline RETIRED VET
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    Humalog is pretty popular for most people...

  25. #25
    drew24 is offline Banned
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    can i bu y it otc in the us

  26. #26
    IBdmfkr's Avatar
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    No order from canada, do a google search, very easy to find.
    -B D
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  27. #27
    drew24 is offline Banned
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    ya i did thay have so many diferent kindes which one do i get and how much for a month cycle ?

  28. #28
    drew24 is offline Banned
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    you guys are so much help thanks

  29. #29
    IBdmfkr's Avatar
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    A vial of humalog will last you probably 6months-1yr.. a little goes a long way and it is cheap.

    If it is humalog then I'd get it, I don't think brand matters much.
    Humalin-R is what is available in the U.S., it can be used as well but has a much longer half-life so most prefer humalog. (myself included).

  30. #30
    drew24 is offline Banned
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    whatwhould i gain by using slin

  31. #31
    IBdmfkr's Avatar
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    Not much IMO. I've used it and don't notice a significant difference whether I'm on GH or off. It may help with catabolism during PCT if used in the AM and PWO but it's almost more trouble than it's worth sometimes.
    JMO.

  32. #32
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    now I do not believe very much in the insulin ,
    anyway i put this:

    humalog action time

    Duration of Insulin Action: Percentage
    30% Humalog each hour, which is gone in 3.5 hours
    Example: rapid/short acting insulin (Humalog®)
    Original bolus Units of insulin left after:
    amount 1 hr 2 hrs 3 hrs 4 hrs
    1 unit---- 0.7-- 0.4-- 0.1----0
    2 units ---1.4-- 0.8-- 0.2----0
    3 units ---2.1-- 1.2-- 0.3----0
    4 units ---2.8-- 1.6-- 0.4----0
    5 units--- 3.5-- 2.0-- 0.5----0
    6 units--- 4.2-- 2.4-- 0.6----0
    7 units--- 4.9-- 2.8-- 0.7----0
    8 units--- 5.6-- 3.2-- 0.8----0
    9 units--- 6.3-- 3.6-- 0.9----0
    10 units-- 7.0-- 4.0-- 1.0----0.

  33. #33
    goose is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    now I do not believe very much in the insulin ,
    anyway i put this:

    humalog action time

    Duration of Insulin Action: Percentage
    30% Humalog each hour, which is gone in 3.5 hours
    Example: rapid/short acting insulin (Humalogģ)
    Original bolus Units of insulin left after:
    amount 1 hr 2 hrs 3 hrs 4 hrs
    1 unit---- 0.7-- 0.4-- 0.1----0
    2 units ---1.4-- 0.8-- 0.2----0
    3 units ---2.1-- 1.2-- 0.3----0
    4 units ---2.8-- 1.6-- 0.4----0
    5 units--- 3.5-- 2.0-- 0.5----0
    6 units--- 4.2-- 2.4-- 0.6----0
    7 units--- 4.9-- 2.8-- 0.7----0
    8 units--- 5.6-- 3.2-- 0.8----0
    9 units--- 6.3-- 3.6-- 0.9----0
    10 units-- 7.0-- 4.0-- 1.0----0.


    Could you explain why you don`t believe very much in slin? I know you are a very Experienced guy and have done many different Approaches using slin,would be great to hear your veiws.It does nothing for size,you don`t notice the Recovery,why is it loved by many?

  34. #34
    drew24 is offline Banned
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    im bridging right now and i wanted to run some slin for a month just to check it outand to get the feal of it and whin i start my next cycle in 9 months i want to use it in my cycle where im shure ill get a better affect from it what do you guys think ?

  35. #35
    Random is offline RETIRED VET
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    I do not have experience yet with slin, however it would make the most sense to use it during your cycle...

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose4
    Could you explain why you don`t believe very much in slin? I know you are a very Experienced guy and have done many different Approaches using slin,would be great to hear your veiws.It does nothing for size,you don`t notice the Recovery,why is it loved by many?
    hi goz
    maybe is good for pump and perhaps i got wrong appreciations, because i have used it after a ketogenic diet and you know, be deprived of carbs and later, put them again with slin well................ it can be push, very fast.
    i am getting very classic .........lol.........
    lot of roids and maybe a lot of gh (but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$).
    Last edited by oswaldosalcedo; 06-22-2006 at 02:53 PM.

  37. #37
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oswaldosalcedo
    i am getting very classic .........lol.........
    lot of roids and maybe a lot of gh (but $$$$$$$$$$$$$$).
    It's about time Ossie...high dose HGH and Test is where it's at.No need for anything else.

    You need cash?...rob a bank...lol...


    ~Pinnacle~

  38. #38
    drew24 is offline Banned
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    pin always short and sweet ,do you use slin ?

  39. #39
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drew24
    pin always short and sweet ,do you use slin ?
    Not anymore.I deemed totally worthless.

    Furthermore,I'm no into being a slave to food for 3-4 hrs.Not into putting on unwanted BF and get ZERO results(muscle mass-wise).I get great recovery for my nutritional plan,plus high dose HGH helps too.

    ~Pinnacle~

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle
    It's about time Ossie...high dose HGH and Test is where it's at.No need for anything else.

    You need cash?...rob a bank...lol...


    ~Pinnacle~
    sure.......i am drained .........lol...........

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