Very worrying

[RA]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0060719-3.html

[RA]

"However, most scientists, at least today, believe that research on embryonic stem cells offer the most promise because these cells have the potential to develop in all of the tissues in the body."

From the presidents speech in 2001. That is why I thought they were superior to adult stem cells.

[Kärnfysikern]

"However, most scientists, at least today, believe that research on embryonic stem cells offer the most promise because these cells have the potential to develop in all of the tissues in the body."

From the presidents speech in 2001. That is why I thought they were superior to adult stem cells.

it might very well be true. I know hardly nothing about it. I find biology horribly boring all I want is for those damn biologist and biomed's to find a way to make me live 500 years. How they do it isnt my concern

[Phreak101]

Not so biglouie...the medical definition of life, or death, is electrical brain activity...that occures days after conception. The functioning of other organs are not a prerequiste to the definition of life.

This is incorrect. The medical definition of life with reagrds to someone who is ALREADY LIVING is brain activity, the medical definiton of life for pre-natal is being able to be self-sufficient in terms of basic life activity without assistance, ie breathing, eating, etc.

[RA]

This is incorrect. The medical definition of life with reagrds to someone who is ALREADY LIVING is brain activity, the medical definiton of life for pre-natal is being able to be self-sufficient in terms of basic life activity without assistance, ie breathing, eating, etc.

Unfortunately that probably is the definition.

[The OutLord]

Im glad sweden is secular so we dont have to have that kind of bullshit here. To bad that the EU might be influenced by anti scientific nonsens. If that happens Il go around screaming for a withdrawal from the EU even though I am a very strong EU supporter.

1000% AGREE with you Johan.

I realy like you and Respekt you ALOT.

You are a person in use of the brain and are in constant thinking.

That is a behaviour in more and more extermination today.

I hate when People stopp think and lean things at others!!!.

To say no to this research & science is just a temporary thing.
A nobody understand that this knowledge and power to controll life and death of a adult/children is unavoidable.

It was so obvious that BUCH say "NO" to this!!
He dont need more problem on his political arena then he already got.

This was just a diplomat behaviour for him.

In future I am very sure that a combination of stam-Cell and lizard DNA with one Injektion and the human will have the loset leg outgrowth back agen.
And that say everything in what powers in the research & science we are taking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !.


And .. Just listen Johan how It sounds to say no of this science!!
This is a technique that is total unavoidable.

This is the gate(Stam-Cell) is a DNA manipulate technique that give the human to laugh at Pandora`s Box!!
We can do and controll everything and that is IF we whant the Key to our own divine-fiction to the true reality , IF we whant!!!!!.

This is unavoidable.
It`s albout somthing must happend... then the It will be green light.

[Superhuman]

so you propose that all stem cell research should be banned, sacrificing countless lifes in the future because of the cures that wont be developed and limiting our scientific progress because some pro abortion people might push for embryonic stem cell research?

if you believe in evolution and "surival of the fittest" then who the **** are we to save these people's lives? They are obviously weaker and are meant to die. We are interfering with nature by using this science. Pure hypocracy

[The OutLord]

if you believe in evolution and "surival of the fittest" then who the **** are we to save these people's lives? They are obviously weaker and are meant to die. We are interfering with nature by using this science. Pure hypocracy

Even for the survive IN WAR?
What do you have for proposition ???

wheelchair for life when He save you arse when you are at home on a ordinary day at work!!!!

That is good for you!!!

That is good with divine.

ther is much of views of things!!

**************************
BUT
one thing I agree with.. !!
god:s way is inscrutable
**************************

[Kärnfysikern]

if you believe in evolution and "surival of the fittest" then who the **** are we to save these people's lives? They are obviously weaker and are meant to die. We are interfering with nature by using this science. Pure hypocracy

hypocracy? So every biologist in the world, every doc and every other sane person that belive in evolution should let people die because they are weak?

I cant even begin to comprehend the logic behind your post. Just because evolution is a fact doesnt mean we should not help our fellow man. We are advanced enough to evolve on our own terms.

[biglouie250]

if you believe in evolution and "surival of the fittest" then who the **** are we to save these people's lives? They are obviously weaker and are meant to die. We are interfering with nature by using this science. Pure hypocracy

cmon!! a fall from 10 feet on your head is going to paralyze if not kill anyone, its not a matter of survival of the fittest.

the real hyposcrisy is that according to the bible god gave man free will to have the ability to do such things but we shouldnt do them.........

[MinkyGirl]

Embryonic stem cells can be forced to divide almost indefinately and can become any kind of tissue in the body. Adult stem cells are not so easily manipulated and less active.

I don't want to see embryos being farmed for research. BUT If abortion is legal, then using those embryos is the ultimate in recycling. I mean, you don't see swarms of people trying to get organ donation banned and its harvesting useful parts from the dead.

Of course, I didn't see the problem with Soylent Green being made out of people either-as long as people were given the choice of becoming or partaking of it.

I wouldn't sweat the world missing out on stem cell progress though. China has been making impressive strides in the field.

[Kärnfysikern]

1000% AGREE with you Johan.

I realy like you and Respekt you ALOT.

You are a person in use of the brain and are in constant thinking.

That is a behaviour in more and more extermination today.

I hate when People stopp think and lean things at others!!!.

To say no to this research & science is just a temporary thing.
A nobody understand that this knowledge and power to controll life and death of a adult/children is unavoidable.

It was so obvious that BUCH say "NO" to this!!
He dont need more problem on his political arena then he already got.

This was just a diplomat behaviour for him.

In future I am very sure that a combination of stam-Cell and lizard DNA with one Injektion and the human will have the loset leg outgrowth back agen.
And that say everything in what powers in the research & science we are taking about!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !.


And .. Just listen Johan how It sounds to say no of this science!!
This is a technique that is total unavoidable.

This is the gate(Stam-Cell) is a DNA manipulate technique that give the human to laugh at Pandora`s Box!!
We can do and controll everything and that is IF we whant the Key to our own divine-fiction to the true reality , IF we whant!!!!!.

This is unavoidable.
It`s albout somthing must happend... then the It will be green light.

thanks

I agree with you. Someday we will be able to life as long as we want to and regrow lost limbs ect. Standing against research like this is just pushing that further into the future and I realy want to be alive when that is possible.

[Kärnfysikern]

Embryonic stem cells can be forced to divide almost indefinately and can become any kind of tissue in the body. Adult stem cells are not so easily manipulated and less active.

I don't want to see embryos being farmed for research. BUT If abortion is legal, then using those embryos is the ultimate in recycling. I mean, you don't see swarms of people trying to get organ donation banned and its harvesting useful parts from the dead.

Of course, I didn't see the problem with Soylent Green being made out of people either-as long as people were given the choice of becoming or partaking of it.

I wouldn't sweat the world missing out on stem cell progress though. China has been making impressive strides in the field.

well usa was(is?) the single biggest contributor to stem cell research. It can probably slow down development with a few years. If the EU also cancel its funds to stem cell research it will be halted ALOT. China and india doesnt have a chanse to match the funding USA and EU can dish out.

I agree with the organ donor thing fully. If a embryo is dead I dont se anything unethical with using the cells. Its just the same as using the heart or kidney of a dead person. That way the death acctualy contributes to something good instead of just beeing a useless death.,

[Phreak101]

if you believe in evolution and "surival of the fittest" then who the **** are we to save these people's lives? They are obviously weaker and are meant to die. We are interfering with nature by using this science. Pure hypocracy

Morality seperates us from the animals. Having morals allows humanity to bypass natural laws of evolution by being able to examine a situation and make a decision based on that situation.

Looping "survival of the fittest" because some people are worse off than others is not hypocrisy at all, if anything, it is using what makes us human to ensure the survival of our species.

Poor logic here, I'm inclined to agree.

[Superhuman]

no... i'm not saying we shouldn't save people at all! I'm providing a different view. I brought this up months ago:
http://67.18.108.244/showthread.php?t=250211

I think nature/evolution is getting F*cked up because we are not letting other humans die when they are supposed to, while at the same time humans are getting killed in wars when they shouldn't. Does that make sense? We cure disabilities and conditions for people who go on to breed and have little inferior babies. We have strong, intelligent, and healthy people going to war and dying having no children. I'm tired right now and something really sad happened today so it's hard to put my thoughts into words well.

[Superhuman]

What makes us responsible for the weaker humans who have nothing to offer the species? I'm not talking about weak as in scrawny - I mean people who are unintelligent, morbidly obese, and lazy (pretty much everyone who shops at wal-mart ) Why should any money or time be spent helping these people when they do nothing for Mankind?

I'm not saying stem cell research is bad at all - in fact I'm all for it as long as there is not an increasing number of abortions as a result.

[Kärnfysikern]

no... i'm not saying we shouldn't save people at all! I'm providing a different view. I brought this up months ago:
http://67.18.108.244/showthread.php?t=250211

I think nature/evolution is getting F*cked up because we are not letting other humans die when they are supposed to, while at the same time humans are getting killed in wars when they shouldn't. Does that make sense? We cure disabilities and conditions for people who go on to breed and have little inferior babies. We have strong, intelligent, and healthy people going to war and dying having no children. I'm tired right now and something really sad happened today so it's hard to put my thoughts into words well.

But evolution is such a long term process that what we do wont be noticable in the big picture anyway. Especialy not considering that we within a few centuries will have mastered both genetic engineering and nanotech. With those 2 technologies we will master our own evolution. Creating plenty of superhumans

What makes us responsible for the weaker humans who have nothing to offer the species? I'm not talking about weak as in scrawny - I mean people who are unintelligent, morbidly obese, and lazy (pretty much everyone who shops at wal-mart ) Why should any money or time be spent helping these people when they do nothing for Mankind?

lol

The only responsibility we have imo is that they are fellow human beeing and I think that is reason enough. Its kind of hard to say who does and doesnt do anything for mankind either. If those that are obese, sic ect where just left to die I wouldnt live. Im not sure Il make any contribution to mankind but I sure hope I will.

I'm not saying stem cell research is bad at all - in fact I'm all for it as long as there is not an increasing number of abortions as a result.

I dont think the two are related at all. When someone makes a descision to abort I dont think stem cell research is on there mind...

[MinkyGirl]

well usa was(is?) the single biggest contributor to stem cell research. It can probably slow down development with a few years. If the EU also cancel its funds to stem cell research it will be halted ALOT. China and india doesnt have a chanse to match the funding USA and EU can dish out.

I agree with the organ donor thing fully. If a embryo is dead I dont se anything unethical with using the cells. Its just the same as using the heart or kidney of a dead person. That way the death acctualy contributes to something good instead of just beeing a useless death.,

The cost of advancing medical science in the west is higher and has more friction because western society values the individual more than the whole. Development will slow a bit, but probably not significantly. I imagine the cost of such research is cheaper in these countries. Wages are lower, regulations are more lax, etc. So the total dollars contributed to research doesn't need to be equivalent. China has already established banks to collect aborted embryos.

Besides, I have a conspiracy theory on the whole stem cell thing. I'm convinced the pharmaceutical companies are behind pushing this anti-stem cell research agenda. Stem cells hold the promise of curing many diseases. Start curing diseases, and the need for prescription drugs or mechanical devices declines drastically. Imagine a future where replacement organs can be grown from a person's adult stem cells and anti-rejections meds are a thing of the past. Stem cell research could spell the end for a number of other morally questionable activities, like black market organs and organ theft. Its not a moral conflict that stands in the way of stem cell research, its the lack of sustainable profitability. There's no money is curing disease, only treating it.

[Phreak101]

The cost of advancing medical science in the west is higher and has more friction because western society values the individual more than the whole. Development will slow a bit, but probably not significantly. I imagine the cost of such research is cheaper in these countries. Wages are lower, regulations are more lax, etc. So the total dollars contributed to research doesn't need to be equivalent. China has already established banks to collect aborted embryos.

Besides, I have a conspiracy theory on the whole stem cell thing. I'm convinced the pharmaceutical companies are behind pushing this anti-stem cell research agenda. Stem cells hold the promise of curing many diseases. Start curing diseases, and the need for prescription drugs or mechanical devices declines drastically. Imagine a future where replacement organs can be grown from a person's adult stem cells and anti-rejections meds are a thing of the past. Stem cell research could spell the end for a number of other morally questionable activities, like black market organs and organ theft. Its not a moral conflict that stands in the way of stem cell research, its the lack of sustainable profitability. There's no money is curing disease, only treating it.

Anti-depressants, tranquilizers, stimulants, etc. are still all huge profit takers for drug companies. Stem cells cannot cure depression (so we say), there is still a big profit potential over and beyond sustainability from degenerative diseases.

[The OutLord]

The Only thing I am agenst in Stem-Cell.

That is when IF The Human start to Use this eternal power that only our imagination have the limitation to create the Super warrior.

Let us say a Human ore a organism that Is far greater then the Computer so the future Combat aircraft have the ability to make sweep in a turn up to ( Let us say )80 G-Force and make the super intelligent airplain fare dangerous then One Carrier with one fleet of model Combat plain from the year 2006 !!!!
Or Things like that..!!
This weapon Can get in us to our selfs and that is not good!!.

But I am the one that vote YES to the same principle I just takt about if the Organism is in use to make a very long journey in space to finde Life ore protect us from Space!!.
Super machins that have the capacity that No one can dream about Even the wildes fantasy can guess even with our modern 2006 human knowledge possess today.

But that is a Problem the Human we are today not in need to worry about to day or in 800 years in future.


We have already the technique to move a robot arm with a brain with the combination that the computer interpret the brain Order to day on a human. that make the Life for a human with a handicapped to a beter life.

Sooo!! a organism , connect to one computer is in a realistic near future!!.


I am In realy serious intend to say.
Stem-Cell is somthing that can compete with god!!!.

[MinkyGirl]

Anti-depressants, tranquilizers, stimulants, etc. are still all huge profit takers for drug companies. Stem cells cannot cure depression (so we say), there is still a big profit potential over and beyond sustainability from degenerative diseases.

Good point, I'm sure there is plenty of money to be made in those areas still. But which drugs do you think command a higher premium--drugs that stave off terminal illness or drugs that treat common maladies? Drug companies are going to have to rely on human vanity and ambition versus desperation to make profit margins if serious diseases are obliterated.

[Phreak101]

Good point, I'm sure there is plenty of money to be made in those areas still. But which drugs do you think command a higher premium--drugs that stave off terminal illness or drugs that treat common maladies? Drug companies are going to have to rely on human vanity and ambition versus desperation to make profit margins if serious diseases are obliterated.

I would imagine since a lot of the drugs being sold en masse today are being prescribed for conditions that are mental and not tangible would mean that the profit potential for them is only limited to the population of people on this planet.

Only so many people have AIDS, but with enough mental illnesses that are stemmed from psychological factors (depression, bulemia, psychosis, hell penis enlargement), these drug companies can rake huge profits. Just ask anyone with ADD...

[The OutLord]

thanks

I agree with you. Someday we will be able to life as long as we want to and regrow lost limbs ect. Standing against research like this is just pushing that further into the future and I realy want to be alive when that is possible.

I realy whant to Be alive to when that happend.

[RA]

Johan would you kill 100 innocent people so we could have a cure for cancer?

[biglouie250]

Johan would you kill 100 innocent people so we could have a cure for cancer?

i know this is directed at johan but i cant resist.....
all cancer? if so ill take the machiavelli approach and say that the ends justify the means and killing 100 people is better than letting millions suffer and die in the future

[The OutLord]

Johan would you kill 100 innocent people so we could have a cure for cancer?

In this "Term" You mention in Peolpe Are Not people Yet!.

But If You Turne The question and Mention the knowledge in to what it is.

And that Term is
-: Johan would you kill 100 innocent bunch of Cells that have not the knowledge about ther own existence and this Stem-cell have NO knowing of their own surroundings so we could have a cure for cancer?
That Is a more correct question.

That Is the first.

For the Second..

This is not abortion.

Stem-Cell can be everything.
That means that it can be enything.
That means this is not a murder on the Organism.
It will live further and (With that the human will not get tow souls!!)


I can describe this Term in an nother way like this.

You take water and starch and then you have concrete!.
Compare this with a egg and sperm.
the DNA say this will be a human.
Concrete in this case is the Embrio that say this wil be a hous.
This Concrete Embrio say that (DNA is the shape-found to a hous)
Is this murder on this Hous if you regret this shape-found to the hous and ju put the Concrete in to a shape-found to the garage because you need the garage to the car because you can repair the cars rust!!
You regret the hous because you need to figth the disease (Rust)


It`s Very similar comparison.

[Superhuman]

In this "Term" You mention in Peolpe Are Not people Yet!.

But If You Turne The question and Mention the knowledge in to what it is.


That Is the first.

For the Second..

This is not abortion.

Stem-Cell can be everything.
That means that it can be enything.
That means this is not a murder on the Organism.
It will live further and (With that the human will not get tow souls!!)


I can describe this Term in an nother way like this.

You take water and starch and then you have concrete!.
Compare this with a egg and sperm.
the DNA say this will be a human.
Concrete in this case is the Embrio that say this wil be a hous.
This Concrete Embrio say that (DNA is the shape-found to a hous)
Is this murder on this Hous if you regret this shape-found to the hous and ju put the Concrete in to a shape-found to the garage because you need the garage to the car because you can repair the cars rust!!
You regret the hous because you need to figth the disease (Rust)


It`s Very similar comparison.

what you say is definitely valid, but it is SO HARD to understand what you are saying!

[kdawg21]

Stem cells can come from sources other than aborted Feti..... (fetusseses, errr whatever; aborted babies) I don't think that religion is the only issue here, a stem cell is essentially a blank cell that is capable of recieving a DNA imprint (thats the over simplified version) thus the ramifications of stem cells go well beyond simply repairing a damaged spinal column, for examlple the ability to clone. Cloning presents its own set of complications, definition of self, definition of life and murder, what rights would a clone have? You can see that it will drastically change the legal system, not to mention usher in another problem regarding cloning people for specific tasks etc.....

For every period of liberalism there is a conservative backlash, it happens all the time in politics thats just the way it goes.

[Tock]

Medical science has in fact determined "life" begins pretty much at conception, so the question you have to ask yourself then is, when does life become valuable? And what does "valuable" mean?

Boy golly, I dunno what medical research you're citing here, but there isn't ANY science that has established that "souls" enter an embryo anytime during or after conception. None.
You'd think that over the past jillion thousand years, with all the people motivated to find even one, that someone somewhere would have figured out a way to prove that humans and/or animals have 'em. But no one has. Ever.

At conception, a sperm cell mates with an egg, and then all sorts of things internal to the cell take place, none of which are shrouded in mystery. Thanks to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilisation
you can check out how things actually work:
All mammals rely on internal fertilisation through copulation. To deliver the sperm to the female, the male inserts his sexual organ, the penis, into the opening of the vagina, the passage into the female's other sexual organs. (This process is a part of copulation.) Once the male ejaculates, a large number of sperm cells swim toward the ovum.

The capacitated spermatozoon and the oocyte meet and interact in the ampulla of the fallopian tube. In mammals, binding of the spermatozoon to the zona pellucida, an extracellular layer surrounding the oocyte, initiates the acrosome reaction. This process releases the enzyme hyaluronidase, which digests the matrix of hyaluronic acid in the vestments surrounding the oocyte. Fusion between the sperm and oocyte plasma membranes follows, allowing the entry of the sperm nucleus, mitochondria, centriole and flagellum into the oocyte. Once the ovum fuses with a single sperm cell, its cell membrane changes, preventing fusion with other sperm.

This process ultimately leads to the formation of a diploid cell called a zygote. When the embryo reaches the uterus and implants in the endometrium, it begins to divide and form an embryo. At this point the female is said to be pregnant. If the embryo emplants in the fallopian tubes, rather than in the uterus, an ectopic pregnancy results, which can be fatal to the mother.

In some animals (e.g. rabbit) the act of coitus induces ovulation by stimulating release of the pituitary hormone gonadotropin. This greatly increases the probability that coitus will result in pregnancy.

If fertilisation takes place, the sperm usually meet the ovum in the fallopian tube, requiring the sperm cells to swim from the upper vagina through the cervix and across the length of the uterus before reaching the fallopian tube—a considerable distance compared to the size of the sperm cell.


So, all you've really got at conception is a fertillized egg. Is the end result "valuable?" Some people say so. But if you look at all the neglected, abused, hungry, homeless, helpless children around the world, I don't think you could say so.

-Tock

[Tock]

You get stem cells from an aborted fetus.

Heterosexuals go to fertility clinics for help with reproduction problems, and they frequently pay to have several eggs fertilized with sperm, and then they pay to have them frozen for future use. So right now, there are jiliions upon jillions of frozen embryos all across the country waiting to be thawed and "hatched." Only problem is, though, that the parents usually have many more eggs fertilized with sperm than they expect they'll want to use. So, unless someone comes along and volunteers to carry the embryo to full term, all those extra embryos are going to be disposed of, one way or another.

The parents could drive up to the clinic and pick up the frozen eggs, take 'em home, and bury 'em, or put 'em in the trash. Or, scientists could use the embryos to find cure for diseases.

Right now, foreign nations are proceeding full speed in an effort to find disease cures with stem cells from these embryos. The United States, thanks to fundamentalist Christians, is not. So, unless things change, the USA is going to fall behind in medical science. We'll be behind the Koreans, Chinese, Europeans, etc. And then we'll have something else we can import from overseas -- medicine.


It's up to Americans if they want to put up with this nonsense.

-Tock

[The OutLord]

what you say is definitely valid, but it is SO HARD to understand what you are saying!

Yea.. I know.

sigh!!
I am A wretched/worthless on Englich.
I know.

I use this program to make me in understanding when i dont finde the words in my head.
http://lexin.nada.kth.se/sve-eng.shtml
in combination of what I have learn since I Enterd this site.

I am in constant learning of englich.
(I was cuting the Englich class in shool and I regret that now.)

My problem in the Englich language is that I dont know all the time how and when I Must end every word and meaning correct In all of the name in vowel , substantive , adjective and plural.

In shool we learning Englich and on TV we learning American!!.

my Englich knowledge is bottom.
but I am happy, you/everybody understand me in some how!!

I am geting better and better and I am making strong progress.

:-D

[Badgermanreincarnate]

Bush doesn't give a shit about children.........texas produces 20% of the CO2
emissions in the US. If you care about children you don't let war destroy children's liVes. If you care about children you have a sound energy policy which looks to the future. And he certainly doesn't care about teenagers since he sends them to die in an illegal war.
If you let me stick around long enough. I can even find a bible verse relating to abortion which has surprising ramifications for the "life at conception ''
group. But if you all are still ban happy.......so be it.

[Badgermanreincarnate]

What really needs to be addressed in the extraodinary money spent in the last 30 days of a persons life. Some tough decisions need to be made.
We treat our animals with more dignity than our fellow man

[Kärnfysikern]

Johan would you kill 100 innocent people so we could have a cure for cancer?

hmmm.

I dont know.
If I dont do it I will live with all the cancer victims on my conscience, if I do it I will live with those 100 lifes on my conscience.



If the question however was would I kill 100 blastocytes(very early stage embryo),left over from for example a firtility clinic like tock mention, to find a cure for cancer I would say yes without a doubt.

[Kärnfysikern]

Yea.. I know.

sigh!!
I am A wretched/worthless on Englich.
I know.

I use this program to make me in understanding when i dont finde the words in my head.
http://lexin.nada.kth.se/sve-eng.shtml
in combination of what I have learn since I Enterd this site.

I am in constant learning of englich.
(I was cuting the Englich class in shool and I regret that now.)

My problem in the Englich language is that I dont know all the time how and when I Must end every word and meaning correct In all of the name in vowel , substantive , adjective and plural.

In shool we learning Englich and on TV we learning American!!.

my Englich knowledge is bottom.
but I am happy, you/everybody understand me in some how!!

I am geting better and better and I am making strong progress.

:-D

Just keep on writing I understand pretty much everything you write and you are improving.

[Superhuman]

Yea.. I know.

sigh!!
I am A wretched/worthless on Englich.
I know.

I use this program to make me in understanding when i dont finde the words in my head.
http://lexin.nada.kth.se/sve-eng.shtml
in combination of what I have learn since I Enterd this site.

I am in constant learning of englich.
(I was cuting the Englich class in shool and I regret that now.)

My problem in the Englich language is that I dont know all the time how and when I Must end every word and meaning correct In all of the name in vowel , substantive , adjective and plural.

In shool we learning Englich and on TV we learning American!!.

my Englich knowledge is bottom.
but I am happy, you/everybody understand me in some how!!

I am geting better and better and I am making strong progress.

:-D

well you are doing very well, so don't worry. You speak better English than plenty of the Americans on this board! If you or anybody else on here speak any other languages this can be a very helpful tool as well (I didn't see your language on there, though) http://translation2.paralink.com/

[Mizfit]

Killing a baby, then harvesting its stem cells like some kind of vulture. It doesnt even sound human.

It's no one's choice, except for the person having the procedure.

and Johan is right - this type of research is beneficial in so many ways.

[Mizfit]

Johan would you kill 100 innocent people so we could have a cure for cancer?

aren't all the people dying of cancer innocent as well? And the numbers of those dying from cancer today, and int he future far exceed this 100 innocent people you speak of.

[Teabagger]

In reply to your post...I never once mentioned "soul", as a condition of life, you did. You try to bring religion into this, I don't. There is right and wrong in the universe, regardless of which religion, if any, you subscribe to.

[Teabagger]

It's no one's choice, except for the person having the procedure.

and Johan is right - this type of research is beneficial in so many ways.

That's pure hogwash. Choice...BS. Neither you or any other woman, has the right to choose to end a life. Abortion is the largest stain on humanity in the history of the world. Karma is real.