Very worrying

[SVTMuscle*]

I'm 100% for Stem Cell/Abortion although I am a christian. A 18 year old athelete going to college is more important than an unborn bundle of cells in my eyes.

[Mizfit]

That's pure hogwash. Choice...BS. Neither you or any other woman, has the right to choose to end a life. Abortion is the largest stain on humanity in the history of the world. Karma is real.

Wow..

I won't get into the debate about this, but i will say this - you or anyone else has no right to tell me what my rights as a woman are.

[SVTMuscle*]

Wow..

I won't get into the debate about this, but i will say this - you or anyone else has no right to tell me what my rights as a woman are.

its your right..... to cook me dinner!

[Mizfit]

its your right..... to cook me dinner!

porkchops

[biglouie250]

That's pure hogwash. Choice...BS. Neither you or any other woman, has the right to choose to end a life. Abortion is the largest stain on humanity in the history of the world. Karma is real.

see the middle east. the US, Israel, Iran, hezbollah, taliban, iraqi insurgents, and lebanon among other disagree with you as they ALL think they have the right to end life......

and as mizfit said no man has any right to tell a woman what their rights are. their body, there choice.......it affects them, not you. and miz i like my pork chops grilled, drizzled with olive oil and some parsley thanks.

[Teabagger]

Wow..

I won't get into the debate about this, but i will say this - you or anyone else has no right to tell me what my rights as a woman are.

Oh but we do. Every society puts limits on an individuals ability to act. They are called laws. At this time sadly abortion is legal...but just because something is legal..does not make it right. Just as some things that are illegal, are not wrong.

[Mizfit]

see the middle east. the US, Israel, Iran, hezbollah, taliban, iraqi insurgents, and lebanon among other disagree with you as they ALL think they have the right to end life......

and as mizfit said no man has any right to tell a woman what their rights are. their body, there choice.......it affects them, not you. and miz i like my pork chops grilled, drizzled with olive oil and some parsley thanks.

Unfortunately many women who do not opt for abortion and should of - either because they were not prepared or just couldn't handle a child - keep the child, and you know who ends up paying the price - THE CHILD.

In an ideal world where those that didn't want children opted for adoption then cool, but i've seen way too many unwanted children kept, it's a sad state of affairs and it's often because they don't feel they ahve a choice or have been pressured.

As i think i touched vaguely on before this subject is so touchy and i'm trying not to go there...

and miz i like my pork chops grilled, drizzled with olive oil and some parsley thanks.

And about the pork chops.. i dunno if i'm gonna cook for everyone

[Mizfit]

Oh but we do. Every society puts limits on an individuals ability to act. They are called laws. At this time sadly abortion is legal...but just because something is legal..does not make it right. Just as some things that are illegal, are not wrong.

That my dear is called an opinion.

[Teabagger]

see the middle east. the US, Israel, Iran, hezbollah, taliban, iraqi insurgents, and lebanon among other disagree with you as they ALL think they have the right to end life......

and as mizfit said no man has any right to tell a woman what their rights are. their body, there choice.......it affects them, not you. and miz i like my pork chops grilled, drizzled with olive oil and some parsley thanks.

You know very well killing in self defense, or to protect others is nowhere close to killing for convienance. And your wrong about abortion only affecting the woman...it affects all of us as human beings. So stop sucking up to mizfit.

[Mizfit]

You know very well killing in self defense, or to protect others is nowhere close to killing for convienance. And your wrong about abortion only affecting the woman...it affects all of us as human beings. So stop sucking up to mizfit.

How can you say that? Have you ever been preganant? do you know what it does to one's body and one's mind?

didn't think so.

And heres a question for you - how do you decide when someone is killing in self defense or to protect others- this too is all based on OPINION.

[Teabagger]

That my dear is called an opinion.

No that is fact. For instance...steroids are illegal to use except for certain medically recognized needs, and in small dosages. So is it right or wrong to use them for anything but the medically recognized needs?

[Mizfit]

No that is fact. For instance...steroids are illegal to use except for certain medically recognized needs, and in small dosages. So is it right or wrong to use them for anything but the medically recognized needs?

In canada - you can have steroids on you, you can't sell them. so your question must be rephrased.

[SVTMuscle*]

And about the pork chops.. i dunno if i'm gonna cook for everyone

But you and I both know, im the exception

[Mizfit]

here's a quote

"In Canada, personal possession of steroids is not an offence. However, a person who sells steroids for non-medical purposes can be charged by police with possessing steroids for the purposes of trafficking. "

[SVTMuscle*]

here's a quote

"In Canada, personal possession of steroids is not an offence. However, a person who sells steroids for non-medical purposes can be charged by police with possessing steroids for the purposes of trafficking. "

At what point do they cross the line with possesion/purpose of dealing

[Teabagger]

How can you say that? Have you ever been preganant? do you know what it does to one's body and one's mind?

didn't think so.

And heres a question for you - how do you decide when someone is killing in self defense or to protect others- this too is all based on OPINION.

No I have not been pregnant, but by the same token I have never been raped, but I can empathize with the victim without having experienced it. My answer to your first part is don't get pregnant. I am pro choice...a woman can choose to have sex or not, a woman can choose to practice safe sex or not, a woman can choose to use birth control or not, a woman can choose to keep the baby or not...women have many choices today. I just feel using abortion as a form of birth control is wrong, and barbaric.

The answer to your second part is if you can't determine what is and what is not self defense, then I certainly cannot explain it to you.

[Mizfit]

At what point do they cross the line with possesion/purpose of dealing

We talk bout this on aim later

[SVTMuscle*]

o we will!

[Mizfit]

I just feel using abortion as a form of birth control is wrong, and barbaric.

So is you imposing your beliefs on society.

The answer to your second part is if you can't determine what is and what is not self defense, then I certainly cannot explain it to you.

If having a baby will kill a person psychologically - then I’m calling abortion self defense. - see it's a slippery slope...

[Phreak101]

Life is consciousness. Life is experience. I'd be willing to bet that a 3 month odlf etus does not have a whole lot of experience and consciousness to be able to be considered an identity or a life.

Don't get me wrong, it saddens me that the potential for life can be snuffed out at will, but what it boils down to is that people who already have established lives must be able to exercise their rights to be in control of the lives they've established. If that means aborting a baby that cannot be properly cared for, so be it.

I don't agree with it per se, but it must be done, or it will be done illegaly and dangerously, risking the lives of countless women.

[Mizfit]

Even if your not a Christian you should not be for killing babies.

Just a question, but all these unwanted children that you do not feel women have the right toa bort - are you going to be adopting all these unwanted children?

Will they become wards of the state, then one day grow up to be nuisances to society because thry had no real guidance in thier youths and grew up in a wolrd where they were unwanted and unloved.

[Teabagger]

Just a question, but all these unwanted children that you do not feel women have the right toa bort - are you going to be adopting all these unwanted children?

Will they become wards of the state, then one day grow up to be nuisances to society because thry had no real guidance in thier youths and grew up in a wolrd where they were unwanted and unloved.

Why should I, or anyone else take responsibilty for any woman's irresponsiblilty. If you don't want kids thats cool...don't get pregnent...its that simple. No one wants to be responsible for their actions...like dead beat dads, or the idiot who leaves a bar drunk, gets in his car, and has an accident...it not his fault...its the bar that sold him the booze fault....someone shoots another person...it's not his fault...its the gun manufacturer, and on and on. It's all about making good decisions and taking responsibility for the bad ones you make. With all "rights" come responsibilities. This debate will not be solved here...pro abortion will stay pro abortion, and anti abortion will stay anti abortion, but in this day and age there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to have an unwanted pregancy...none. Abortion today is nothing more than birth control, something it was never intended to address.

[biglouie250]

Why should I, or anyone else take responsibilty for any woman's irresponsiblilty. If you don't want kids thats cool...don't get pregnent...its that simple. No one wants to be responsible for their actions...like dead beat dads, or the idiot who leaves a bar drunk, gets in his car, and has an accident...it not his fault...its the bar that sold him the booze fault....someone shoots another person...it's not his fault...its the gun manufacturer, and on and on. It's all about making good decisions and taking responsibility for the bad ones you make. With all "rights" come responsibilities. This debate will not be solved here...pro abortion will stay pro abortion, and anti abortion will stay anti abortion, but in this day and age there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to have an unwanted pregancy...none. Abortion today is nothing more than birth control, something it was never intended to address.

and what about rape victims........ is that the womans fault as well?

and what about dead beat dads? that child that was created by 2 people is the sole responsibility of the mother? people make mistakes and we as a society love to give 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances.......

[Kärnfysikern]

Why should I, or anyone else take responsibilty for any woman's irresponsiblilty. If you don't want kids thats cool...don't get pregnent...its that simple. No one wants to be responsible for their actions...like dead beat dads, or the idiot who leaves a bar drunk, gets in his car, and has an accident...it not his fault...its the bar that sold him the booze fault....someone shoots another person...it's not his fault...its the gun manufacturer, and on and on. It's all about making good decisions and taking responsibility for the bad ones you make. With all "rights" come responsibilities. This debate will not be solved here...pro abortion will stay pro abortion, and anti abortion will stay anti abortion, but in this day and age there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to have an unwanted pregancy...none. Abortion today is nothing more than birth control, something it was never intended to address.

well there is always those cases where both the male and girl is responsible but shit happens. My sister got knocked up when she was on birth controll. They keept the baby though and think its the best thing that could happen to them. But no birth controll is 100%.

I look at abortion as a neccesary evil. Ban it and women will start doing it themself with coathangers and shit again.

[Phreak101]

Why should I, or anyone else take responsibilty for any woman's irresponsiblilty. If you don't want kids thats cool...don't get pregnent...its that simple. No one wants to be responsible for their actions...like dead beat dads, or the idiot who leaves a bar drunk, gets in his car, and has an accident...it not his fault...its the bar that sold him the booze fault....someone shoots another person...it's not his fault...its the gun manufacturer, and on and on. It's all about making good decisions and taking responsibility for the bad ones you make. With all "rights" come responsibilities. This debate will not be solved here...pro abortion will stay pro abortion, and anti abortion will stay anti abortion, but in this day and age there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for anyone to have an unwanted pregancy...none. Abortion today is nothing more than birth control, something it was never intended to address.

In a perfect world, sure. There would be no unwanted pregnancies, no cancer, no AIDS, no war, etc. But that's not going to happen anytime soon. For now, the fact of the matter is who's rights are more important, the woman's or the unborn childs? In order to have a civilized society, the potential for abortion MUST exist, or it will lead to dangerous back alley abortions, uneducated decisions, suppressed human rights, and general anxiety and fear of having an unwanted pregnancy.

Look at steroids ! If it wasn't for this board, who knows what kind of ****ed up my rats would be. But because I have knowledgeable sources, I feel safe about my decisions. Women have doctors they can consult because abortion is legal. Again, it's sad that an unborn child will never get to experience life, but what are you going to do?

[Kärnfysikern]

Life is consciousness. Life is experience. I'd be willing to bet that a 3 month odlf etus does not have a whole lot of experience and consciousness to be able to be considered an identity or a life.

Exactly what I think aswell. Its more like preventing the potential for a life. But wearing a condom is also preventing the potential for a life.

Im NOT saying abortion should be looked upon as wearing a condom. But I dont se that much of a ethical difference betwen preventing a sperm to reach a egg or aborting the egg just when it has started to divide. The end result is exactly the same.

I dont agree with late abortions though.

[RA]

Just a question, but all these unwanted children that you do not feel women have the right toa bort - are you going to be adopting all these unwanted children?

Will they become wards of the state, then one day grow up to be nuisances to society because thry had no real guidance in thier youths and grew up in a wolrd where they were unwanted and unloved.

Theres a huge waiting list for babies. No need to worry.

[RA]

well there is always those cases where both the male and girl is responsible but shit happens. My sister got knocked up when she was on birth controll. They keept the baby though and think its the best thing that could happen to them. But no birth controll is 100%.

I look at abortion as a neccesary evil. Ban it and women will start doing it themself with coathangers and shit again.

lol. Urban myth.

[RA]

i know this is directed at johan but i cant resist.....
all cancer? if so ill take the machiavelli approach and say that the ends justify the means and killing 100 people is better than letting millions suffer and die in the future

Ok, then its you and all your extended family that is chosen.

[RA]

It's no one's choice, except for the person having the procedure.

and Johan is right - this type of research is beneficial in so many ways.

The person having the procedure cant talk yet.

[Phreak101]

The person having the procedure cant talk yet.

Nor can they comprehend what the procedure is, or anything else for that matter....

[RA]

aren't all the people dying of cancer innocent as well? And the numbers of those dying from cancer today, and int he future far exceed this 100 innocent people you speak of.

Wow. That speaks volumes.

Ok, how many is too many. 1,000? 1,000,000? 100,000,000?

[RA]

Nor can they comprehend what the procedure is, or anything else for that matter....

So we should kill them and harvest their stem cells. Whatever happened to protecting the innocent?

[Phreak101]

Ok, then its you and all your extended family that is chosen.

Back in the day, dying for a cause such as this would be a great honor, and you and your family would be celebrated for ages to come.

The sacrifice should not be what is being scrutizined, it should be the reaction and respect of the sacrifice in this day and age that comes under the scope.

[RA]

Heterosexuals go to fertility clinics for help with reproduction problems, and they frequently pay to have several eggs fertilized with sperm, and then they pay to have them frozen for future use. So right now, there are jiliions upon jillions of frozen embryos all across the country waiting to be thawed and "hatched." Only problem is, though, that the parents usually have many more eggs fertilized with sperm than they expect they'll want to use. So, unless someone comes along and volunteers to carry the embryo to full term, all those extra embryos are going to be disposed of, one way or another.

The parents could drive up to the clinic and pick up the frozen eggs, take 'em home, and bury 'em, or put 'em in the trash. Or, scientists could use the embryos to find cure for diseases.

Right now, foreign nations are proceeding full speed in an effort to find disease cures with stem cells from these embryos. The United States, thanks to fundamentalist Christians, is not. So, unless things change, the USA is going to fall behind in medical science. We'll be behind the Koreans, Chinese, Europeans, etc. And then we'll have something else we can import from overseas -- medicine.


It's up to Americans if they want to put up with this nonsense.

-Tock

What your saying is laughable. Were going to be behind everyone in medical science because we lag in harvesting embryonic stem cells? Cmon tock this is horse poo.

[biglouie250]

Ok, then its you and all your extended family that is chosen.

the question is obviously flawed as its not a reality.

[RA]

Back in the day, dying for a cause such as this would be a great honor, and you and your family would be celebrated for ages to come.

The sacrifice should not be what is being scrutizined, it should be the reaction and respect of the sacrifice in this day and age that comes under the scope.

What day? Killing 100 innocent people is killing 100 innocent people. Nothing noble about it. Same question to you. How many is too many?

[RA]

the question is obviously flawed as its not a reality.

The question isn't flawed its that you can't come up with the correct answer without going against the side you have chosen.

[Phreak101]

What day? Killing 100 innocent people is killing 100 innocent people. Nothing noble about it. Same question to you. How many is too many?

It's not killing them if they are willing to die for the cause! People offered up their lives all the time in service of their gods for fertility, farming, war, etc. How is this mentality different?

Are you telling me we could not find 100 people willing to give their lives to cure cancer? How about 1000?

The morality you are using to argue this cause is respectable but flawed. When it comes down to it, the human race in itself is a living, breathing entity. When a human body needs to cure itself, it will destroy certain areas to protect the whole body. If this is what needed to be done to save the human race from cancer, I hardly see it as "murder".

But we are extremly off topic, back to abortion.

[Phreak101]

So we should kill them and harvest their stem cells. Whatever happened to protecting the innocent?

How is it killing them if they save the lives of 10 people, especially when they will never know otherwise?

Innocence is consciousness without knowledge of evil. Embryos are not conscious, but what better way to use an unwanted embryo than to save the lives of others! I don't agree with using abortion as a lack of responsibility, quite the contrary, I think women should only be allowed so many abortions before they are forced to give their children to adoption agencies, or something along those lines. But to say aborting a fetus is the "killing of the innocent" is trivializing the deaths of truely innocent people.