saw palmetto..........

**johnsomebody** · 03-08-2004, 11:31 AM

Here's an interesting point-counterpoint discussion at Steroidology...
http://www.steroidology.com/forum/sh...o&pagenumber=1

The best stuff is on page two where someone actually quotes from real studies rather than just expressing opinion without backing it up (which happens all the time-makes me crazy).

" In vivo studies have shown that saw palmetto decreases dihydrotestosterone levels and raises testosterone levels ,82 has antiestrogenic activity,83 and increases apoptosis and reduces cell proliferation84 in prostatic tissue from patients with benign prostatic hyperplasia..."

I still don't know if it interferes with binding at the androgen receptors, durnit.

**iron4life79** · 03-08-2004, 02:09 PM

/> i'm still on the s.p. and its still seems to be helping immensely.
i'm on the same dosage(1800mg ed). as for inhibiting gains, i just dont see it. but ive said this a million times.....we're all different, and some will react differently to this stuff i'm sure.
i have 4 weeks left on my cycle, and i will more than likely continue the s.p. through my pct. then i'll come off, and we'll see what happens next.

a few real good posts have been added to this thread. if anyone has anything else to add, feel free to do so.

peace I4L

**ichabodcrane** · 03-11-2004, 06:49 PM

in vitro, or basically in an artificial environment outside the living organism. IN VITRO studies are isolated and controlled, and it is often very difficult to apply the results to those that would happen inside the human body or in vivo. IN VITRO studies like this do not account for the multiple feedback mechanisms, or cascading events that happen when we have an intact system such as that inside our bodies. They are however, a good starting point. Also, the study reported these in vitro tests were done in specific tissues (abdominal skin wall, myometrium, prepuce and vaginal skin). There is no mention of muscle tissue etc. So while this sounds very disturbing, it may or may not be the actual case. This brings us to next important part of this ordeal (IMO). This is the studies that were done in vivo

Swellin · 03-11-2004, 07:12 PM

Most of what IC posted had occurred to me, but some of it was imensely insightful......

It is interesting to note that teenagers and young men, with their high T levels, tend to have very full heads of hair, but not so much facial and/or body hair. On the other hand it is not too uncommon to see massive body/facial hair on a person who may be severely balding. We must look at the relative balance of all hormones and not just T or DHT.

Little snipits like this really make the difference.

Pretty interesting.

**johnsomebody** · 03-13-2004, 01:51 PM

Wow, thanks for the input Icahbod!!!

Seems like the possibility still exists based on that in vitro study that while SP lowers DHT and increases test levels it may also bind to androgen receptors overall other than just the prostate? Or am I missing something?

As for me I laid off the stuff for a few days but I'm so paranoid about my prostate it felt like the thing was crying out in pain from a DHT attack so I resumed taking it. Aaaahh, relief.

**johnsomebody** · 03-13-2004, 02:00 PM

Originally Posted by ichabodcrane

Even people who use T alone will report a decrease in libido.

This is a real interesting fact that a lot of people at AR don't know. It seems to be the case with me as well.

**hybrid** · 03-13-2004, 05:44 PM

Great discussion on this topic. I've learned alot. Thanks. One thing that I was told by a doc once sticks in my mind. He said that every male, if they live long enough will develop prostate cancer. Kind of all-inclusive, I know. But the point that I got from it was to be careful when it comes to protecting the prostate. I would rather sacrifice some gains rather than sacrifice the health of the prostate.

**johnsomebody** · 03-13-2004, 05:59 PM

Good point!! I've heard the same thing.

**iron4life79** · 03-14-2004, 07:35 AM

this is the way i like to see things addressed in this particular forum.

i know way more about s.p. now than i ever thought i would need or want to. while questions still arise as to efficacy, etc, i like the way this was discussed, and most questions at least somewhat answered.
all of you are to be commended for the time and effort you put into this thread, and i appreciate all youve done, for me and others who read it.

btw- ich, i havent forgotten you brother. be patient, ok?

peace I4L

**ichabodcrane** · 03-21-2004, 04:04 PM

/>
I notice a huge difference in the quality of posts/replies compared to the general AAS forum. Does maturity mean anything

Anyways, thanks for everything guys, and the best of luck to all, IC

**johnsomebody** · 03-23-2004, 11:42 AM

Originally Posted by ichabodcrane

I notice a huge difference in the quality of posts/replies compared to the general AAS forum. Does maturity mean anything

Yup, this is where the grownups hang out.

**Dowstrategy** · 03-23-2004, 03:45 PM

I visited my uroligist today. Anyone have a clue how to get ky stains off a shirt tail LOL. Anyway I asked him about SP and he said there is good evidence that Saw Palmetto is effective in helping with prostate swelling. The evidence is anctedotal and his experience was that about 40% of the people had some improvement. As to brands he said to look for the words standardized on the label and avoid any that was whole plant chopped up and look for extract. He recommended 450 to 900 a day

**johnsomebody** · 03-24-2004, 09:52 PM

Great info! Thanks bro.

**over40mule** · 06-26-2004, 06:02 PM

I began using 1000mg of saw palmetto a year ago (consistantly). Prior to incorporating saw palmetto, I also had mild incontinence. Some claim saw palmetto diminishes HRT results but I have to totally disagree.

41 yrs young and on gear

PSA 2003 = 2.21
PSA June 2004 = 1.5 (1 yr of saw palmetto) this was taken during a high androgen cycle but no aromatizing compounds like testosterone were used. Just (Deca , winstrol , Halotestin ) .

**johnsomebody** · 06-27-2004, 04:25 PM

That's excellent info -especially posting your PSA numbers declining. Thanks for posting!

**SLOW AND EASY** · 08-27-2004, 05:47 PM

Have you looked into Beta-Sitosterol I understand it is a lot better than SP for BHP.
Do a google search and check it out. It is made from the berries of the SP.

Peace

**JinNtonic** · 04-19-2010, 05:30 PM

Funny I have felt a little bit less libido and I have been taking SP for 5 weeks. I bet its that thats doing it...

**lovbyts** · 04-20-2010, 12:11 AM

Dude.... Do you really think it was necessary to respond to a thread that is 6 years old????

**clemont51** · 02-08-2011, 07:42 AM

I'm taking 3600mg of Spring Valley SP daily. Tried the script drugs, dustesteride (?) caused my breasts to grow, the other
one dropped blood pressure and caused a fainting episode. Still only get up once during the night. PSA normal. Test C at
75mg weekly. I'm 75 and maintaining test level of 850.