what is good to start takeing??

[powerviking]

hello i just turned 18 and i wan to know if u shuld start some dianobol and testoserone,or is there somthing else thats better for starting??

[Mulciber]

yeah..food..lots of it..
clean healthy diet and proper training for a few more years

[LATS60]

yeah..food..lots of it..
clean healthy diet and proper training for a few more years

X2

I just LMFAO, i was thinking what you said in your PM about your ava.

[WARMachine]

18 is too young for AAS bro...

Your natural test levels are sky high right now, take advantage of it.

Check out the diet and training sections for some help.

[powerviking]

so u dont advise to start at 18?i weigh in at 98kg and i am full grown

[legobricks]

ok so your about 216lbs. How tall are you? What is your bodyfat at? How many years have you been training, what does your diet look like? These are the stats we need to know to give you sound advice. Unfortunately most of the answers youll get are you are too young which is true, your HPTA is still developing and you may risk damage at that age.

[LATS60]

so u dont advise to start at 18?i weigh in at 98kg and i am full grown

How do you know you are fully grown?
Have you had an epiphyseal fusion test done?

[WARMachine]

No i dont advise people start taking AAS at 18.

Even if you are 98kg, it doesnt mean you are fully grown.

Give me these full stats.

height
weight
bf%
diet summary/# meals per day (I want to see a full meal plan with marcos)
years lifting / workout split
cycle experience
pct/estrogen control knowledge
goals (size/cut/strength/speed etc...)

[powerviking]

i am a cometitive powerlifter my height is 180cm wight 98kg dont know my fat procent diet is healthy mostly no carbs in the night and im takeing in animal pak and muccle tech the creatine mostley want strength and size im not sure yet if i want to be a bodybuilder

[powerviking]

and i eat 6 time a day

[powerviking]

and training 3 years

[WARMachine]

At 180cm and 98kg your BF% is probably in the high teens.

And again i want to see a full meal plan with marcos

[powerviking]

what the **** is marcos hey man i am a icelander i have no idea what marcos is and what do u mean by fat is in high teens?

[Mulciber]

again... BTW, this was posted by partyboy on muscletalk some time ago.. always comes in handy in a pinch.. lol

Anabolic steroids promote strength gain, muscle synthesis, and increased metabolic capacity. Their responsible, moderate use improves athletic performance, cosmetic appearance, and perceived social opportunity and self-esteem. However, anabolics achieve their effects by perturbing the human endocrine system, a complex feedback mechanism of glands and organs that are, in healthy and youthful persons, in an exquisite state of natural balance. Compounds like anabolic steroids that alter this balance are appropriate for use only by mature, well-trained athletes who understand these drugs, their risks and their benefits. Except in the case of prospective users of clear promise for national or international ranking in a sport, realistically hopeful for the kinds of benefits such ranking confers, the following should be characteristic of anyone, of any age, prior to the addition of anabolic steroids to a training regime:


1. PHYSICAL MATURITY. Anabolics can, through either direct or indirect effects, cause premature closure of the epiphyseal plates (growth plates) at the end of bone, an irreversible effect that may result in permanently shorter stature than the athlete would otherwise achieve. Therefore, the athlete should have reached full physical stature and maturity of the skeleton before contemplating anabolic use. In most cases, full stature is not reached until the very late teens and, in many cases, development of both long skeletal bones and joint assemblies (hips and shoulders) continues into the early 20's, development of the larynx (voice box) into the mid-20's


2. SIGNIFICANT MATURE MUSCULARITY. Anabolics have poor effect, or transitory effect, on athletes in mediocre condition; in addition, their tendency to boost muscle strength ahead of the strength of supporting tendons and ligaments can lead to debilitating injury in athletes without substantial prior training. Therefore, the athlete should have accumulated a significant amount of mature muscle mass and tendon strength through a dedicated program of resistance training prior to beginning anabolic use. Recognizing that there is substantial individual variability in training efficiency and effects, a minimum of 3 years, perhaps as many as 7, of dedicated weight training is required to achieve this necessary physical foundation, on which anabolics can be used safely and to best effect.


3. THOROUGH KNOWLEDGE. Anabolics are not a substitute for proper technique or applied knowledge of the basics of exercise physiology. Therefore, the athlete considering the use of anabolics should have a very thorough and detailed knowledge of lifting technique, dietary practice, recuperative processes, and hormonal and nonhormonal supplementation, and should if possible prepare for the use of anabolics under the guidance of a trusted mentor who has mastered these issues. In particular, the athlete should have an excellent understanding of the uses, effects, and risk profiles of anabolics, and should be thoroughly conversant with the kinds of ancillary agents that minimize side-effects and speed post-cycle recovery. Recognizing that there is substantial individual variability in the pace at which this knowledge is acquired, at least a year of arduous study and reading is necessary to understand anabolics and post-cycle recovery, and at least 4 years of practice is required to establish the requisite knowledge base of lifting technique, recuperation, and diet.


4. PSYCHOLOGICAL MATURITY. Anabolic steroids can have marked effect on mood and disposition, either during the cycle of active use, or its aftermath. Therefore, the athlete considering the use of anabolics should have the psychological health and maturity that will enable him or her to use anabolics with minimal social, psychological, and legal risk to both him/herself and his/her network of partners and collaborators. In addition, the athlete should be firm enough in purpose and balanced enough in approach to understand not only how and when to initiate use of anabolics, but how and when to curtail or abandon use safely should that need arise.


The use of anabolic steroids is unwise for persons who have not satisfied these prerequisites, though exceptions may be made in cases of very unusual athletic promise. While not a function of mere calendar age per se, it is unarguable that, on average, the likelihood that these conditions will have been met increases as the age of the prospective anabolic user increases.


For the reasons adduced above, the following statement of consensus opinion is made:

Allowing for substantial individual variability, and with the exception of cases of truly outstanding athletic promise, the athlete considering the use of anabolics should be socially and physically mature, psychologically healthy, and should have completed 4 to 7 years of dedicated, mentored training in strength/endurance athletics and study in lifting technique, dietary practices, recuperation skills and supplementation. In most cases, the athlete will have reached the age of 21 before these prerequisites are in place, recognizing that many athletes will not have achieved the necessary experience, physical maturity, and psychic balance until their mid-20's or even later.



There are many side effects, some of which are specific to teen users:

Acne
Possible increase in Male Pattern Baldness
Gynecomastia (bitch tits)
Stunted growth (premature closing of growth plates - not only affects height, but also other long bones such as collar bone)
Natural testosterone production supression (not ideal at such an important time for your endocrine system)
Risk of injury (anabolics normally provide an increase in strength. Muscles react more quickly than tendons. This can be an issue even for veteran lifters - potentially much more of a problem for novice trainers who's form is still likely to be poor)
Possible liver stress with alkylated steroids
Possible sexual dysfunction

[WARMachine]

lol take it easy bro...

i mean that your BF% is probably high. You said youre 180cm and 98kg, youre pretty stocky at that weight and height, and since you dont know your BF%, i assume its probably around 15-18%.

i could be wrong, it was just a guess.

[powerviking]

well i am powerlifter like i said haha we dont think to much about body fat i just use the good old mirror hehe

[WARMachine]

Well the problem is that gyno realted sides increase the higher BF% one has. Thats why most people will recommend you not cycle unless your BF% is under 12%.

IMHO, if your over, you need to get it down to cycle without fear of terrible sides.

[LATS60]

again... BTW, this was posted by party boy on muscle talk some time ago.. always comes in handy in a pinch.. lol

Anabolic steroids promote strength gain, muscle synthesis, and increased metabolic capacity. Their responsible, moderate use improves athletic performance, cosmetic appearance, and perceived social opportunity and self-esteem. However, anabolics achieve their effects by perturbing the human endocrine system, a complex feedback mechanism of glands and organs that are, in healthy and youthful persons, in an exquisite state of natural balance. Compounds like anabolic steroids that alter this balance are appropriate for use only by mature, well-trained athletes who understand these drugs, their risks and their benefits. Except in the case of prospective users of clear promise for national or international ranking in a sport, realistically hopeful for the kinds of benefits such ranking confers, the following should be characteristic of anyone, of any age, prior to the addition of anabolic steroids to a training regime:


1. PHYSICAL MATURITY. Anabolics can, through either direct or indirect effects, cause premature closure of the epiphyseal plates (growth plates) at the end of bone, an irreversible effect that may result in permanently shorter stature than the athlete would otherwise achieve. Therefore, the athlete should have reached full physical stature and maturity of the skeleton before contemplating anabolic use. In most cases, full stature is not reached until the very late teens and, in many cases, development of both long skeletal bones and joint assemblies (hips and shoulders) continues into the early 20's, development of the larynx (voice box) into the mid-20's


2. SIGNIFICANT MATURE MUSCULARITY. Anabolics have poor effect, or transitory effect, on athletes in mediocre condition; in addition, their tendency to boost muscle strength ahead of the strength of supporting tendons and ligaments can lead to debilitating injury in athletes without substantial prior training. Therefore, the athlete should have accumulated a significant amount of mature muscle mass and tendon strength through a dedicated program of resistance training prior to beginning anabolic use. Recognizing that there is substantial individual variability in training efficiency and effects, a minimum of 3 years, perhaps as many as 7, of dedicated weight training is required to achieve this necessary physical foundation, on which antibiotics can be used safely and to best effect.


3. THOROUGH KNOWLEDGE. Anabolics are not a substitute for proper technique or applied knowledge of the basics of exercise physiology. Therefore, the athlete considering the use of antibiotics should have a very thorough and detailed knowledge of lifting technique, dietary practice, recuperative processes, and hormonal and non hormonal supplementation, and should if possible prepare for the use of antibiotics under the guidance of a trusted mentor who has mastered these issues. In particular, the athlete should have an excellent understanding of the uses, effects, and risk profiles of antibiotics, and should be thoroughly conversant with the kinds of ancillary agents that minimize side-effects and speed post-cycle recovery. Recognizing that there is substantial individual variability in the pace at which this knowledge is acquired, at least a year of arduous study and reading is necessary to understand antibiotics and post-cycle recovery, and at least 4 years of practice is required to establish the requisite knowledge base of lifting technique, recuperation, and diet.


4. PSYCHOLOGICAL MATURITY. Anabolic steroids can have marked effect on mood and disposition, either during the cycle of active use, or its aftermath. Therefore, the athlete considering the use of antibiotics should have the psychological health and maturity that will enable him or her to use antibiotics with minimal social, psychological, and legal risk to both him/herself and his/her network of partners and collaborators. In addition, the athlete should be firm enough in purpose and balanced enough in approach to understand not only how and when to initiate use of antibiotics, but how and when to curtail or abandon use safely should that need arise.


The use of anabolic steroids is unwise for persons who have not satisfied these prerequisites, though exceptions may be made in cases of very unusual athletic promise. While not a function of mere calendar age per se, it is unarguable that, on average, the likelihood that these conditions will have been met increases as the age of the prospective anabolic user increases.


For the reasons adduced above, the following statement of consensus opinion is made:

Allowing for substantial individual variability, and with the exception of cases of truly outstanding athletic promise, the athlete considering the use of antibiotics should be socially and physically mature, psychologically healthy, and should have completed 4 to 7 years of dedicated, mentored training in strength/endurance athletics and study in lifting technique, dietary practices, recuperation skills and supplementation. In most cases, the athlete will have reached the age of 21 before these prerequisites are in place, recognizing that many athletes will not have achieved the necessary experience, physical maturity, and psychic balance until their mid-20's or even later.



There are many side effects, some of which are specific to teen users:

Acne
Possible increase in Male Pattern Baldness
Gynecomastia (bitch tits)
Stunted growth (premature closing of growth plates - not only affects height, but also other long bones such as collar bone)
Natural testosterone production suppression (not ideal at such an important time for your endocrine system)
Risk of injury (antibiotics normally provide an increase in strength. Muscles react more quickly than tendons. This can be an issue even for veteran lifters - potentially much more of a problem for novice trainers who's form is still likely to be poor)
Possible liver stress with alkylated steroids
Possible sexual dysfunction

Interesting, the reason for epiphyseal fusion while taking steroids is estrogen, so yes he's correct in saying that's it's directly or indirectly connected to aas.
But, i can throw a forensic science study in, just playing devils advocate here LOL.



Books & Journals/Journal of Forensic Sciences/Citation Page/

Volume 50, Issue 5 (September 2005)
ISSN: 0022-1198
Published Online: 17 August 2005
Page Count: 7

Age ranges of epiphyseal fusion in the distal tibia and fibula of contemporary males and females
Crowder, C
Department of Anthropology, University of Toronto, Toronto, Ontario, Canada

Austin, D
Department of Sociology and Anthropology, University of Texas at Arlington, Arlington, TX, Canada

(Received 23 December 2004; Accepted 27 March 2005)

Abstract
The range of variation in epiphyseal fusion in North American populations has not been sufficiently established. This significant oversight can lead to exclusion of persons of interest in a forensic investigation. This study evaluates epiphyseal fusion of the distal tibia and fibula in 570 European-, African-, and Mexican-American children and young adults. Radiographs of 270 females aged 9 to 17 and 300 males aged 11 to 20 were analyzed to assess the range of variation of epiphyseal fusion at each age. Results indicate that complete fusion in females occurs as early as 12 years in the distal tibia and fibula. All females demonstrated complete fusion by 16 years with no significant differences between ancestral groups. Complete fusion in males occurs as early as 14 years in both epiphyses. All males demonstrated complete fusion by 19 years. Significant differences in the earliest age of complete fusion showed that African- and Mexican-American males demonstrate complete fusion as early as 14 years in both epiphyses while European-American males do not express complete fusion until 16 years.

[powerviking]

i dont get it cuss most icelandic and jut powerliters dont have low bf ehehe so ure saying its higher risk for powerlifers?

[WARMachine]

If you take AAS with a BF% higher than 12%, then yes, you are a higher risk for gyno related sides.

Does that mean youll get them? Maybe not.

But you def. are a higher risk.

[powerviking]

thanks man i didint know that i just trying to get as much info as i can so i should also wait like 2 to 3 years intill i juice?

[Phate]

thanks man i didint know that i just trying to get as much info as i can so i should also wait like 2 to 3 years intill i juice?

2 or 3 years minimum, how bout posting your diet so we can help you with that

[WARMachine]

I agree with Phate...

Lets see the diet..

I wouldnt recommend anyone use AAS before the age of 21. Keep in mind the longer the better. If you can put off till your 24 or 25 youll be better off in the long run.

[bbuilder]

I wouldnt recommend anyone use AAS before the age of 21. Keep in mind the longer the better. If you can put off till your 24 or 25 youll be better off in the long run.

I'm glad to see you finally agree with me.

[powerviking]

i eat for breakfast bread or oatmeal then 2 to 3 later i eat snack like aple and yogurt then i have good meal in lunch lots of protine and carbs then 3 hours later i have more carbs and then i have dinner no carbs

[Phate]

i eat for breakfast bread or oatmeal then 2 to 3 later i eat snack like aple and yogurt then i have good meal in lunch lots of protine and carbs then 3 hours later i have more carbs and then i have dinner no carbs

thats really vague bro, how bout writing what and how much you eat tomorrow and posting it and i meant everything you eat

[WARMachine]

I'm glad to see you finally agree with me.

I dont fully agree with you...

I dont think 25 years old is a hard fast rule...

However, yes it is probably better in the long run for them to wait as long as possible. This is true.

21 is an acceptable age IMHO either way.

No age is acceptable without proper DIET and TRAINING though!

These things must come first! Dont you agree?

[WARMachine]

thats really vague bro, how bout writing what and how much you eat tomorrow and posting it and i meant everything you eat

include how much of what youre eating weighs since you dont know what macros are...

leave out no detail

[Mulciber]

But, i can throw a forensic science study in, just playing devils advocate here LOL.

by all means.. thats what i like to see.. lol
want to read all i can.. both sides,pros and cons.. ect.
then make my own conclusion..
think thats whats its all about..


respect

[powerviking]

ok man ill post it tomorow i want to thank u all for the help u have my ears and respect see u guys tomorow

[WARMachine]

keep us posted

[LATS60]

by all means.. that's what i like to see.. lol
want to read all i can.. both sides,pros and cons.. ect.
then make my own conclusion..
think thats whats its all about..


respect

So true, iv'e been reading about this for a while, i must admit i was surprised by the huge part ethnicity plays in this.

[WARMachine]

Ethnicity plays a part?

Explain, sounds interesting...

[Phate]

different growth rates for different ethnicities