The PWO WMS craze...

**Drummerboy** · 07-29-2008, 02:03 AM

http://www.troponinnutrition.com/ind...d=31&Itemid=30

I dont use WMS, but im going to try the WMS/BCAA/leucine PWO drink and the whey/complex carb drink 15 min later. I know this has been discussed, im just throwing this article up. Seems that the greatest benefits of WMS is no stomach problems... a complex carb that absorbs faster and gets to the muscle faster - not that i believe its WAY better than dex, just somewhat better from all the stuff ive been reading... Im still an advocate of whole foods are best... except for the PWO shakes~~~ so im gonna give this a try!

~DB~

**abbot138** · 07-29-2008, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Drummerboy

http://www.troponinnutrition.com/ind...d=31&Itemid=30

I dont use WMS, but im going to try the WMS/BCAA/leucine PWO drink and the whey/complex carb drink 15 min later. I know this has been discussed, im just throwing this article up. Seems that the greatest benefits of WMS is no stomach problems... a complex carb that absorbs faster and gets to the muscle faster - not that i believe its WAY better than dex, just somewhat better from all the stuff ive been reading... Im still an advocate of whole foods are best... except for the PWO shakes~~~ so im gonna give this a try!

~DB~

Very interesting read. Thank you. I have always been an adocate of WMS, I know it takes a beating on here from a lot of people, and to each his own. But personally I have had great success with it. Especially when using it with Creatine, Beta-Alanine, and BCAA's. I am going to give this staggered method of WMS then Protein 15 mintues later a try during my next growth phase.

**Dukkit** · 07-29-2008, 08:21 AM

always love learning new things. as soon im done with my bag of dex and starting my bulking... im buying a bag of this and ill try the staggering method also.

**Drummerboy** · 07-29-2008, 01:27 PM

It seems that heavy molecule sugars are what works best... if anything at all its easy on the stomach. There is a lot of misinformation about it on here, it does NOT absorb slowly, it DOES cause the same insuline spike, and you CAN gain fat if you over do it. I think taking about 70 grams of WMS over dex may be easier for ppl to digest, i personally can tolerate dex tho. As for the idea that we need to replenish glycogen so fast... i think thats a HUGE fallacy that we are buying into... we dont train 2x a day as superathletes... we give our bodies some time to recover. Protien, however, is another story.. i do believe that the faster the better when it comes to ingestions right after workout... the carbs just seems to bounce me back from being tired. Another fallacy i see is that WMS is low GI.... its not. Its about the same as dex, however it molecule size has an impact on how easily it is passed thru the stomach, to the small intestine, and absorbed. Easier on the system. All things considered, id use it just for that.

~DB~

**abbot138** · 07-29-2008, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Drummerboy

It seems that heavy molecule sugars are what works best... if anything at all its easy on the stomach. There is a lot of misinformation about it on here, it does NOT absorb slowly, it DOES cause the same insuline spike, and you CAN gain fat if you over do it. I think taking about 70 grams of WMS over dex may be easier for ppl to digest, i personally can tolerate dex tho. As for the idea that we need to replenish glycogen so fast... i think thats a HUGE fallacy that we are buying into... we dont train 2x a day as superathletes... we give our bodies some time to recover. Protien, however, is another story.. i do believe that the faster the better when it comes to ingestions right after workout... the carbs just seems to bounce me back from being tired. Another fallacy i see is that WMS is low GI.... its not. Its about the same as dex, however it molecule size has an impact on how easily it is passed thru the stomach, to the small intestine, and absorbed. Easier on the system. All things considered, id use it just for that.

~DB~

Yeah its definately FAST FAST FAST digesting and it will DEFINATLEY spike your insulin , lol! I agree that the PWO fast-digesting, insulin spike is sometimes overstated. I only use it when Bulking for one, and I make sure to get slow digesting, lower GI carbs (sweet potatoes or oats) in me within an hour of taking my PWO shake. I've always felt the PWO meal is more important than the PWO shake. The aspect of WMS that Ive found to be most uselful is its ability to rapidly shuttle creatine, beta-alanine, BCAA's, etc... into your muscle cells PWO. 70g was about the daily dose that I used in the past and had success with.

**sam_sneed** · 07-29-2008, 01:43 PM

personally i think anything thats fast acting is rubbish.

the body likes all digestion to be slow so it sorta defies logic.

**sam_sneed** · 07-29-2008, 01:50 PM

As you say abbott, something like 15g carbs from Gatorade intra-workout works well as a shuttler. Electrolytes mmmmmm

**Drummerboy** · 07-29-2008, 01:58 PM

yea... i use gatorade during a good wo... it def. keeps me at full power to the end... especially if your pre-wo wasnt up to snuff...

~DB~

**Dog-Slime** · 07-29-2008, 02:03 PM

I read somewhere that the window of opportunity for both carbs and protein was atleast 1 hour and closer to two from the study I read. You could use almost any carb source, along with a fast acting protein like whey and be fine. Not saying that faster acting is any worse, just saying I don't believe it to be better.

**abbot138** · 07-29-2008, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by sam_sneed

As you say abbott, something like 15g carbs from Gatorade intra-workout works well as a shuttler. Electrolytes mmmmmm

I do this also when Bulking

I will mix it with about 10g whey and 10g BCAA's, def keeps me going during a tough workout.

**ralph4u2c** · 07-29-2008, 02:32 PM

if you dont get stomach problems from dextrose i see no reason to change over to WMS. i noticed very little difference, dextrose is cheaper and widely available, and the two act in very similar ways. Other than wanting the new popular thing to buy or stomach pain from dextrose, ill continue to use dextrose when needed. let alone the chalky taste and texture of WMS too.

if your diet is right, there should be no difference in any source that you use as there will be no problem with glycolytic storing. same reason WMS isnt much better than maltodextrin than dextrose.
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Determinants of post-exercise glycogen synthesis during short-term recovery.

Jentjens R, Jeukendrup A.

Human Performance Laboratory, School of Sport and Exercise Sciences, University of Birmingham, Edgbaston, Birmingham, UK.

The pattern of muscle glycogen synthesis following glycogen-depleting exercise occurs in two phases. Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes. This rapid phase of muscle glycogen synthesis is characterised by an exercise-induced translocation of glucose transporter carrier protein-4 to the cell surface, leading to an increased permeability of the muscle membrane to glucose. Following this rapid phase of glycogen synthesis, muscle glycogen synthesis occurs at a much slower rate and this phase can last for several hours. Both muscle contraction and insulin have been shown to increase the activity of glycogen synthase, the rate-limiting enzyme in glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, it has been shown that muscle glycogen concentration is a potent regulator of glycogen synthase. Low muscle glycogen concentrations following exercise are associated with an increased rate of glucose transport and an increased capacity to convert glucose into glycogen.The highest muscle glycogen synthesis rates have been reported when large amounts of carbohydrate (1.0-1.85 g/kg/h) are consumed immediately post-exercise and at 15-60 minute intervals thereafter, for up to 5 hours post-exercise. When carbohydrate ingestion is delayed by several hours, this may lead to ~50% lower rates of muscle glycogen synthesis. The addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins to a carbohydrate supplement can increase muscle glycogen synthesis rates, most probably because of an enhanced insulin response. However, when carbohydrate intake is high (>/=1.2 g/kg/h) and provided at regular intervals, a further increase in insulin concentrations by additional supplementation of protein and/or amino acids does not further increase the rate of muscle glycogen synthesis. Thus, when carbohydrate intake is insufficient (<1.2 g/kg/h), the addition of certain amino acids and/or proteins may be beneficial for muscle glycogen synthesis. Furthermore, ingestion of insulinotropic protein and/or amino acid mixtures might stimulate post-exercise net muscle protein anabolism. Suggestions have been made that carbohydrate availability is the main limiting factor for glycogen synthesis. A large part of the ingested glucose that enters the bloodstream appears to be extracted by tissues other than the exercise muscle (i.e. liver, other muscle groups or fat tissue) and may therefore limit the amount of glucose available to maximise muscle glycogen synthesis rates. Furthermore, intestinal glucose absorption may also be a rate-limiting factor for muscle glycogen synthesis when large quantities (>1 g/min) of glucose are ingested following exercise.