Are we suited for this society?

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-23-2005, 04:05 PM

Im just thinking are we humans realy able to handle the western society of today? Or are we slowely killing ourself?

When thinking about the huge boom of depressions, the number of people hooked on anti depressants, painkillers and all other meds used to get through life. Are we killing our will to live?

I saw a article that compered how "happy" people are in the "civilised" parts of the world and in the more poor ones and suprisingly the poor countries was happier. Thigher familys, tighter friendships, more love and compassion.

Does a higher standard of living inevitably lead to unhappy people or is the stress and competition in todays society the thing to blame when it comes to all the mental and physical diseases we are plauged by today?

I firmly belive that most diseases today is caused by a unbalanced mind and most of all unproper eating habits and the fact that no food nowdays is what they used to be(veggies only containing 30% of the minerals and vitamins they used to contain 60 years ago ect). What else can cause the entire world to simultationusly become depressed and suffer from different kinds of anxiety

**Pale Horse** · 03-23-2005, 04:07 PM

We are declining as a race , the more "advanced " we get the farther back we go IMO

**IntensityX** · 03-23-2005, 04:10 PM

Greed and contempt breeds into the hearts of men these days leading us into despair,depession and sadness the only thing to do is live a good life and don't follow the path to destruction.

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-23-2005, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by 1victor

We are declining as a race , the more "advanced " we get the farther back we go IMO

I kind of aggre. But Im not sure the technology is what to blame but more the stressfull enviorment we have created. Money above everything, time efficiency(sp?)more important then mental wellbeeing and so on. How could it come to this

? What could be done to reverse it and make people more important then money?

Technology should make our life easier, not put more demands on us.

**Pale Horse** · 03-23-2005, 04:12 PM

Drastic reprogramming of peoples thought processes. A world in which good deeds, positive actions were rewarded vs fvcking everyone you can to get ahead.

**BUBBA74** · 03-23-2005, 04:40 PM

Technology=The Science Of Lazyness.

**MrMondodondo** · 03-23-2005, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by 1victor

A world in which fvcking everyone you can get head.

MONDO losing it............

Can you say.....BORED! HATE WORK!

whew, glad I got that out.

**Pale Horse** · 03-23-2005, 04:43 PM

Mondo , I feel your pain.

**chicamahomico** · 03-23-2005, 04:52 PM

It's just the opposite. We live longer, healthier, more productive lives than ever. Remeber you are guaranteed the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's up to you define and create your own 'happiness', all that's gauranteed is that you are free to pursue it.

**Pale Horse** · 03-23-2005, 04:54 PM

chica there are no guarantees except death and taxes

**MrMondodondo** · 03-23-2005, 04:58 PM

And that if your over 40 you do not know what the term "Blow Job" is.

Guaranteed!!!!!

Grrrrrrruuuummmmppppppyyyyyyyy

**Beefkake31** · 03-23-2005, 05:03 PM

I agree, it never used to be like this now it's as if the people that aren't on any medication or don't do drugs are a minority. People are definitely not happier and a lot more stress. There probably is a reason why it wasn't like this before but they would have to do some research. Could be the food we eat, something in the air?, medication changed our genes and is permanent and we give it to our babies

lol, I don't know but things are definitely changing for the worse. I think in like 2050 more than half the world will be on crazy pills, I guarantee it.

**MrMondodondo** · 03-23-2005, 05:07 PM

More than half are on pills, alcohol, pot, speed now!!!!!!!

**Beefkake31** · 03-23-2005, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by MrMondodondo

More than half are on pills, alcohol, pot, speed now!!!!!!!

Let's all try to figure out the cause, let's hear some theories guys.

**palme** · 03-23-2005, 05:15 PM

Just look at the kids, when i was 7-8 we wouldnt dare spit at the teachers or any other adult, now it happends everyday here. And the kids even go on killingsprees.

Its going straight downhill.

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-23-2005, 05:16 PM

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

It's just the opposite. We live longer, healthier, more productive lives than ever. Remeber you are guaranteed the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's up to you define and create your own 'happiness', all that's gauranteed is that you are free to pursue it.

We are only "healtier" because we can cure most old killer diseases with antibiotics. But if not including those I think the avarage 1500 farmer was healtier then the avarage mcdonalds customer nowdays. We arent healthier, we just have more drugs to keep us alive even though we have worse health and that is a big difference.

Productive in what ways? we earn more money and we have fancier gadgets. But thats about it, do you define the happines in your life by how productive you are? and how do you define productive?

How do you explain the fact that a ****load of the population suffers from different kinds of anxieties and depressions? Maby our bodies can be keept alive more efficently but what about our minds?

Anyone can pursue happiness, but how many can achieve it?

Do you realy think the things you eat are healthy? Veggies and crops forced to grow alot faster then they should, animals packed and stacked with hormones and antibiotics, different chemical fertelisers in the soil the crops grows in, pesticides, all the sugar substitutes in light products and so on...

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-23-2005, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by Beefkake31

Let's all try to figure out the cause, let's hear some theories guys.

I say the food is the number one factor. All the crap and toxins in them.

Obviously what we eat has a effect on how we feel mentaly to. Overlooked by most but its a fact that can not be ignored.

**MrMondodondo** · 03-23-2005, 05:24 PM

I believe the generation of parents that are out there are more concerned with themselves and their needs than anything else. Keeping up that exterior to fit in. Comparing your outsides with my insides so to speak. These people do not care about the little important things in life like respect, dignity, humility. It is all about the appearances. Their parents were busy being hippies and fighting "the man" and sh1t like that. So there are no boundaries anymore. What is a man? What is a woman? Everything is so skewed these days. Discipline. I know it is an extinct word and action. Pisses me off too. Self-Esteem is gone. We are all ready for the quick fix.

We see it here too! 140 lbs and 17, the Juice will make me HUGE.....Nevermind the years of friggin pain and training we have put in. I just want it now dammit and if you don't give it too me my daddy will sue you.

That's my quick version. I could go on andaonandonandon.........

**chicamahomico** · 03-23-2005, 05:46 PM

I think the easiest and most illustrative of how you, I, and everyones else are better off as time progresses is to consider the time a person spends on duties directly related to subsistence. 100 yrs ago average Joe spend much of his day working just so he could afford food, clothing and shelter. Nowadays, (in real countries who cares about 3rd world) Joe average spends almost no time earning the means to feed, clothe and shelter himself. All of the difference (time) is yours to do as you please.

Originally Posted by johan

..Productive in what ways? we earn more money and we have fancier gadgets. But thats about it, do you define the happines in your life by how productive you are? and how do you define productive?

You can't exaplin it or even really compare it effectivley across time ranges becasue we have no way of knowing if this is a recent phenomenon. At least there are always more and more options available for those who do have medical problems as time progresses.

Originally Posted by johan

How do you explain the fact that a ****load of the population suffers from different kinds of anxieties and depressions? Maby our bodies can be keept alive more efficently but what about our minds?

What more can you give people other than the opportunity to define their lives in the most unconstrained way possible. What makes me happy might make you puke and vice versa but each of us should have the chance to persue what makes us happy.

Originally Posted by johan

Anyone can pursue happiness, but how many can achieve it?

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-23-2005, 05:57 PM

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

I think the easiest and most illustrative of how you, I, and everyones else are better off as time progresses is to consider the time a person spends on duties directly related to subsistence. 100 yrs ago average Joe spend much of his day working just so he could afford food, clothing and shelter. Nowadays, (in real countries who cares about 3rd world) Joe average spends almost no time earning the means to feed, clothe and shelter himself. All of the difference (time) is yours to do as you please.

I dont think the time spent on a duty is nearly as important as how you look at the duty. Im sure a farmer was more proud and satisifed after a hard days of work then the regular office guy nowdays or someone in some boring factory.
Also earlier in history and in many poor countries familys work togheter wich create very strong bonds. Bonds that people dont get nowdays. How come that people work less now but spend WAY more less time with family then ever before

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

You can't exaplin it or even really compare it effectivley across time ranges becasue we have no way of knowing if this is a recent phenomenon. At least there are always more and more options available for those who do have medical problems as time progresses.

Well if the phenomenon had been as widespread in like the 50's Im sure it would have been noticed. Look at the ammount of people not able to work becuase of stress related syndroms. We in sweden are the worst when it comes to day. A huge part of the workforce cant work becuase of it. That wasnt the case 40-50 years ago

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

What more can you give people other than the opportunity to define their lives in the most unconstrained way possible. What makes me happy might make you puke and vice versa but each of us should have the chance to persue what makes us happy.

Is it realy more unconstrained now. Economy is everything you cant do **** without money. Everything wasnt so soley dependant on money earlier in history. A group of people could togheter build a new house for someone in a village ect. That doestn happen nowdays. Because of money and Im not glorifying the earlier days either.

**chicamahomico** · 03-23-2005, 06:16 PM

Excellent thread Johan.

I make sure to spend a lot of time with my family but that's because it's something I believe is important. Most people I know don't spend much time with their family and that's their choice. The bottom line is that people living today have more time with which to choose what to do with. Sadly, most people choose to work more not less. Hopefully it makes them happy.

Originally Posted by johan

Also earlier in history and in many poor countries familys work togheter wich create very strong bonds. Bonds that people dont get nowdays. How come that people work less now but spend WAY more less time with family then ever before

It does happen, how it is being done might change at face value but there is far more philanthropic transfers of wealth nowadays than ever before. A community project like what you describe is lees likely to happen now becasue it is a relatively inefficient way of getting the job done.Much easier to have a charity collect money and hire a builder to build it.

Originally Posted by johan

Is it realy more unconstrained now. Economy is everything you cant do **** without money. Everything wasnt so soley dependant on money earlier in history. A group of people could togheter build a new house for someone in a village ect. That doestn happen nowdays. Because of money and Im not glorifying the earlier days either.

**Monsoon says** · 03-23-2005, 06:22 PM

No comment it makes me thing to hard....

**Prime** · 03-23-2005, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

It's just the opposite. We live longer, healthier, more productive lives than ever. Remeber you are guaranteed the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's up to you define and create your own 'happiness', all that's gauranteed is that you are free to pursue it.

Actually the generation 10-15yr old's may be the first generation to die before their parents due to no exercise, processed diet, obesity and other heath problems.

**chicamahomico** · 03-24-2005, 03:32 AM

A recent study has made this claim. However, you have to consider how inaccurate most very long run predictions turn out to be. When speaking of a time frame of several decades it is next to impossible to predict something like this with any accuracy. One only needs to take a not too distant look back at history and some of the predictions made in the late 19th or early 20th century for good examples.

Originally Posted by Prime

Actually the generation 10-15yr old's may be the first generation to die before their parents due to no exercise, processed diet, obesity and other heath problems.

**hung-solo** · 03-24-2005, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by 1victor

chica there are no guarantees except death and taxes

and erectile disfunction for vic hahahaa

**ire** · 03-24-2005, 09:44 AM

We are each our own devil, and we make this world our hell.

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-24-2005, 10:12 AM

Just read a study in a book that compered health in people in the world that still live kind of tribal lifes. Same eating habits as they have had for thousands of years. Most of the diseases that plauge our western society is totaly unknown among those people. Almost no heart disease(even though they have picked upp the bad habit of smoking), obviously no diabetes, no arthritis and so on. They are living MUCH healtier lifes then us. They arent getting killed by the old killer disease cause they can get ahold of medecin when they need to. But they dont need close to the ammount of medecin most in western society munch down on a daily basis. Also mental disorders are very rare among those people. So we dont have to speculate if people earlier in history was happier cause we have living proof of it...

I think the widespread use of antibiotics is hurting us not aiding us. It should only be used in the biggest emergencys imo. No one considers the effect antibiotics has on the fauna of bacteria in the intestants. They are absolutely CRUCIAL to good immune defence and it takes months for that system to recover after using antibiotics(often making the person sic again so he has to use antibiotics again and then the vicious cycle has begun and hes f*cked majorly for a long long time).

When reading how important proper diet is for mental health my entire outlook changed dramaticly. How important even the intestinas are for the imune system and mental health. Things totaly overlooked by doctors and shrinks and the general public...How come no one even considers the fact that diet has a huge impact on the head??

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-24-2005, 10:17 AM

Originally Posted by chicamahomico

A recent study has made this claim. However, you have to consider how inaccurate most very long run predictions turn out to be. When speaking of a time frame of several decades it is next to impossible to predict something like this with any accuracy. One only needs to take a not too distant look back at history and some of the predictions made in the late 19th or early 20th century for good examples.

A long life doesnt=better health.

It just means that we are alot better at keeping sic people alive....

But is refreshing to se a true optimist once in a while I hope you are right

I just think we are screwed(as a society) if the general eating habits and the ****ty quality of food aviable doesnt get improved. Offcourse we will survive as a race. But a race totaly dependant on chemicals to live, to feel decent, to be able to cope with the stress.

Its like we ignore the causes and just treat the symptoms

Anti depressants instead of therapy, harsh medications instead of change of diet. Everyone wants the quick pill fix and doesnt want to put in the time and effort to realy live a healthy quality life...

**Pale Horse** · 03-24-2005, 10:19 AM

Johan I agree with just about every opinion you have expressed on this thread, you too Mondo

**MrMondodondo** · 03-24-2005, 10:25 AM

Maybe we should start our own Therapy Center?????

**Kärnfysikern** · 03-24-2005, 10:26 AM

Everyone should do some reading about ortomolecular medicin. I dont know much about it myself and the next few books I will buy will for sure be on this subject. This is a area of science I realy hope will get ALOT more attention and funding in the years to come.

But the big med companies offcourse have nothing to gain from that so they probably dont like it much

Imagine the money they will lose when the public learns that the correct combination of EFA's, vitamin and minerals might be just as good as all the expensive crap as zoloft, prozac without the side effects

But then again the public is to lasy to eat the right amounts of everything so I bet they would rather use those "easy" pills.

The key idea in orthomolecular medicine is that genetic factors are central not only to the physical characteristics of individuals, but also to their biochemical milieu. Biochemical pathways of the body have significant genetic variability and diseases such as atherosclerosis, cancer, schizophrenia or depression are associated with specific biochemical abnormalities which are causal or contributing factors of the illness. In the orthomolecular view, the provision of vitamins, amino acids, trace elements or fatty acids in amounts sufficient to correct biochemical abnormalities will be therapeutic in preventing or treating such diseases

http://www.orthomed.org/

**redmeat** · 03-24-2005, 11:52 AM

Personally I'm having a pretty good time here and I'm glad I don't live in a 3rd world country, BUT I think the key is simplicity. That's why people are happier in poorer countries. Their lives are simpler. You need to have a few things you like doing, surround yourself with good people who care about you, and don't get tied up too much in "crap" like work, etc.

Just my opinion.