bouncing for an acquantance's private party

[GQ-Bouncer]

Erm...no.
I have punched a few people in my time and it was not my intention to kill any of them.
I used to work the doors over here and you would never get away with hospitalising every person who attacked you - in fact I find it very hard to believe that you woud get away with that in Canada either.

Whoa, i dont victimize people.

If a person attacks me (not just pushing & cursing.. but punches me for example) than I will incapacitate him, whats wrong with that?

I use the "violence for killing" example, is because ultimately you have to explain your state of mind to the police

[USfighterFC]

Whoa, i dont victimize people.

If a person attacks me (not just pushing & cursing.. but punches me for example) than I will incapacitate him, whats wrong with that?

I use the "violence for killing" example, is because ultimately you have to explain your state of mind to the police

He's stating exactly what you just said you do and your saying you do it in the same quote. Police arent gonna buy that shit if 135 pound guy is laid out on the ground with no weapon and your 250 pounds. I thought this skinny little guy was gonna kill me so I dropped him with a titanic right hand but he kept moving a little so I stomped his head into the ground.

[NotSmall]

If a person attacks me (not just pushing & cursing.. but punches me for example) than I will incapacitate him, whats wrong with that?

Nothing, if you mean locking his arm up behind his back but in your earlier post you said:

If you do get into a fight, it is VERY VERY VERY important to hospitalize the person who attacks you - this is absolutley critical, with no exceptions.

[NotSmall]

I thought this skinny little guy was gonna kill me so I dropped him with a titanic right hand but he kept moving a little so I stomped his head into the ground.

Ha ha

[GQ-Bouncer]

America has a "Stand your ground" bill
(i realize it's not passed in most states however)

A Bill giving Florida citizens the right to shoot and kill anyone who threatens them in public - without first having to try to escape - is set to be passed into law in a move that critics say could turn the Sunshine State into the Wild West.

Governor Jeb Bush has signalled his intention to sign into statute the 'Stand Your Ground Bill', which allows members of the public to "meet force with force, including deadly force and defend themselves without fear of prosecution".

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1557282,00.html

Bush agree's with me!

the spirit of law from Canada & America is virtually the same.

Also, you could argue the "consent" defense, to which, he fought with you, so any punishment he recieves was consentual

[GQ-Bouncer]

He's stating exactly what you just said you do and your saying you do it in the same quote. Police arent gonna buy that shit if 135 pound guy is laid out on the ground with no weapon and your 250 pounds. I thought this skinny little guy was gonna kill me so I dropped him with a titanic right hand but he kept moving a little so I stomped his head into the ground.

135 pounds? bah, the police dont care about crackheads

i think my poor internet communication skills are starting to show here,

besides skinny or not, he could still kill me - you know that

and furthermore, it's all my other doorman's witness statement vs his. I know where the cameras are, i know his situation as far as friends he came in with etc.

I feel it's also necessary to explain, i dont ever, ever victimize anybody, all these people are ussually drug addicts or gang members

[NotSmall]

Also, you could argue the "consent" defense, to which, he fought with you, so any punishment he recieves was consentual

"But officer, he slapped me first thereby giving me his permission to break his eye socket and rupture his spleen"

[USfighterFC]

America has a "Stand your ground" bill
(i realize it's not passed in most states however)




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1557282,00.html

Bush agree's with me!

the spirit of law from Canada & America is virtually the same.

Also, you could argue the "consent" defense, to which, he fought with you, so any punishment he recieves was consentual

I've never heard any law on the books that that even remotely sound like that.

[GQ-Bouncer]

"But officer, he slapped me first thereby giving me his permission to break his eye socket and rupture his spleen"

brutha, that'd be a perfect defense

in the eyes of the law, slapping is just the same as punching, which leads to a fight, which ends in eithier him or you being incapacitated

[NotSmall]

I've never heard any law on the books that that even remotely sound like that.

I read about it being proposed in our newspapers a while back, sounds dumb as fuck to me - being able to shoot someone for being verbally aggressive, what's to stop you shooting anyone you please then saying "He said he was gonna fuck me up, I had to shoot him in the head!" How would you prove otherwise?

[USfighterFC]

brutha, that'd be a perfect defense

in the eyes of the law, slapping is just the same as punching, which leads to a fight, which ends in eithier him or you being incapacitated

You're totally wrong in every single aspect....you're only allowed to use the same amount of force as used upon you. THATS THE LAW here. If a woman slaps you, you have no right to drop kick her across the street.

[GQ-Bouncer]

I read about it being proposed in our newspapers a while back, sounds dumb as fuck to me - being able to shoot someone for being verbally aggressive, what's to stop you shooting anyone you please then saying "He said he was gonna fuck me up, I had to shoot him in the head!" How would you prove otherwise?

LMAO - hahahaha... well, atleast you understand my arguement lol

just curious, did you ever bounce in London?

[Sta11ion]

Its not worth the headaches.

[GQ-Bouncer]

You're totally wrong in every single aspect....you're only allowed to use the same amount of force as used upon you. THATS THE LAW here. If a woman slaps you, you have no right to drop kick her across the street.

i'm not making myself clear

fighting is combat - if you consider a women slapping you "a fight" than yah, you would have the right to incapacitate her (the law doesnt give women more rights to self defence than men)

[Sta11ion]

Canada and america do not have the same law. THey are very different in alot of situations. If anything we are a british colony Canada are more similar to United Kingdom.

America has a "Stand your ground" bill
(i realize it's not passed in most states however)




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1557282,00.html

Bush agree's with me!

the spirit of law from Canada & America is virtually the same.

Also, you could argue the "consent" defense, to which, he fought with you, so any punishment he recieves was consentual

[NotSmall]

just curious, did you ever bounce in London?

Nope.

[USfighterFC]

i'm not making myself clear

fighting is combat - if you consider a women slapping you "a fight" than yah, you would have the right to incapacitate her (the law doesnt give women more rights to self defence than men)

This is getting mind numbing and repetitive...it really doesnt matter what I consider self defense......I am not the law, I do not make the rules of what self defense can be classified under. If a woman slaps you and you knock her out...guess who's going to jail buddy, you are, not her. You will be charged and found guilty of simple assault. And you should be better prepared in court than to say" I consider it a fight if she slaps me so I knocked the ever loving shit out of her"

[NotSmall]

Canada and america do not have the same law. THey are very different in alot of situations. If anything we are a british colony Canada are more similar to United Kingdom.

Well the law here defines reasonable force along the lines of "retaliating with force comparable to that which was used on you" so hospitalising someone for punching you is a big no no.
All this talk saying that if someone attacks you then it is reasonable to assume that their intention is to kill you is BS, you cannot prove what someones intentions were unless their actions clearly demonstrate that intention, i.e. punching someone in the face is rarely fatal so doing so does not demonstrate a desire to kill.

[GQ-Bouncer]

the spirit of the law between the US & Canada are similiar

NotSmall - you dont have to prove their intentions, only your state-of-mind - personally, if someone is going to suprise attack me & punch me, i would assume he wouldnt stop until i was dead - but that's just my paranoid little theory. In the end they classify it as "victim precipiated"

anyways, it's all good, we can agree to disagree brutha's

[USfighterFC]

the spirit of the law between the US & Canada are similiar

NotSmall - you dont have to prove their intentions, only your state-of-mind (fearing death)

anyways, it's all good, we can agree to disagree brutha's

We can agree to disagree on the matter of opinion but this isn't opinion, this is in black and white. You HAVE to show their intent to kill otherwise you have absolutely no chance of ANYTHING in court. You're state of mind has very little to do with an assault case and MURDER is involved. If they dont have a weapon and this person punches you and you take out a weapon and kill them or just plain beat them to death, thats manslaughter and your going away for at least 10 years. If someone punches you once and you beat them into the ground and they're hospitalized, once again your going to jail for assault since it is only a legal right to USE AS MUCH FORCE AS USED UPON YOU. Anything else is excessive force and you're liable.

[NotSmall]

the spirit of the law between the US & Canada are similiar

Sounds good, what exactly does it mean though?

NotSmall - you dont have to prove their intentions, only your state-of-mind (fearing death)

Aha! - So if you're paranoid and fear everyone you can kick the crap outta whoever you like? Surely you would have to demonstrate that you had good reason to fear for your life - you'd look like a bit of a weeny if you kept claiming that you thought you might die every time someone swung on you.

anyways, it's all good, we can agree to disagree brutha's

No we bloody well can't!

[GQ-Bouncer]

We can agree to disagree on the matter of opinion but this isn't opinion, this is in black and white. You HAVE to show their intent to kill otherwise you have absolutely no chance of ANYTHING in court. You're state of mind has very little to do with an assault case and MURDER is involved. If they dont have a weapon and this person punches you and you take out a weapon and kill them or just plain beat them to death, thats manslaughter and your going away for at least 10 years. If someone punches you once and you beat them into the ground and they're hospitalized, once again your going to jail for assault since it is only a legal right to USE AS MUCH FORCE AS USED UPON YOU. Anything else is excessive force and you're liable.

All law is taken case-to-case, it isnt Black & White AT ALL,

The law is entirely dependant on what you can prove, not as much on what actually happened (and any criminal defence lawyer can vouch for that statement)

i've used my initial argument post in 14 cases & 13 of them have been dismissed - but in all fairness the intial evidence has ALWAYS been in my favour

[GQ-Bouncer]

Sounds good, what exactly does it mean though?

Aha! - So if you're paranoid and fear everyone you can kick the crap outta whoever you like? Surely you would have to demonstrate that you had good reason to fear for your life - you'd look like a bit of a weeny if you kept claiming that you thought you might die every time someone swung on you.

The Spirit of the Law i'm implying that law is a written definition of both our societies morality, much more than just instating the Habeus Corpus or Magna Carta - but the actual, raw, reflection of our ethics & morales.

For example, i wouldnt say The Spirit of the Law between America and Somalia are the same

Oh dude, i'm sure the cops must think i'm the biggest pussy alive by now

[USfighterFC]

All law is taken case-to-case, it isnt Black & White AT ALL,

The law is entirely dependant on what you can prove, not as much on what actually happened (and any criminal defence lawyer can vouch for that statement)

i've used my initial argument post in 14 cases & 13 of them have been dismissed - but in all fairness the intial evidence has ALWAYS been in my favour

The law is black and white in the case that you are presenting. If a woman slaps you, you can't kill her.

[GQ-Bouncer]

The law is black and white in the case that you are presenting. If a woman slaps you, you can't kill her.

i never said that!

my core values, is that if someone attacks you violently, than they should respond with enough violence to injure the opponent (in that, a strong, morale man should stand up for themselves and teach society that violence is unacceptable.... uhh... by using violence .... well it makes sense to me )

if a women slaps you, you have the right to stop her from attacking you

[USfighterFC]

i never said that!

my core values, is that if someone attacks you violently, than they should respond with enough violence to injure the opponent (in that, a strong, morale man should stand up for themselves and teach society that violence is unacceptable.... uhh... by using violence .... well it makes sense to me )

if a women slaps you, you have the right to stop her from attacking you

FINALLY WE AGREE LMAO!!!

[GQ-Bouncer]

lol right on,

i wonder if skinnyhb has read any of this?

[USfighterFC]

lol right on,

i wonder if skinnyhb has read any of this?

He gave up after so much.

[skinnyhb]

can i drink winny?

[USfighterFC]

inject it into your eye...i heard it works wonders

[thegodfather]

During the riots in Los Angeles over Rodney King, there was a very controversial case that arose from it, not sure if any of you have seen it. A truck driver was going down a road, when a mob surrounded his truck. One man pulled him from the truck, and beat him ****ing senseless. The DA charged him with attempted murder. However, his lawyers were successfully able to prove his INTENT was not to kill the truck diver, only to assault him. Intent is an extremely hard thing to prove, unless you have a tape recorded conversation, something in writing, or the person otherwise states that their intent was to kill the person, it's a hard battle for the DA.

The way Self Defense is defined in my law handbook, is that it must escalate in stages. I wont write it verbatim, Ill just interpret the meaning for you. Meaning, if you hit me, I can strike you back with equal force, and then attempt to escape ONLY if I can escape without you harming me again. Meaning, if I feel I need to hit you twice in order for me to escape successfully without being injured, it's legal to do so. If you enter my home, and you are armed, if I have a REASONABLE means of escaping my home without you harming me(which has to be proved), then I must take that opportunity to escape, otherwise it is not self defense. However, if you enter my home with a weapon, and Im cornered with no wheres to go, I then have the right to kill you. This is the GENERAL way that the self defense law works in the United States, and is how its being taught to me in college. However, each state has its own set of laws that it adds to the basic principles.

[LewdTenant]

If you ever go to court please don't try to defend yourself. Hire a lawyer.

Also, you could argue the "consent" defense, to which, he fought with you, so any punishment he recieves was consentual

[USfighterFC]

During the riots in Los Angeles over Rodney King, there was a very controversial case that arose from it, not sure if any of you have seen it. A truck driver was going down a road, when a mob surrounded his truck. One man pulled him from the truck, and beat him ****ing senseless. The DA charged him with attempted murder. However, his lawyers were successfully able to prove his INTENT was not to kill the truck diver, only to assault him. Intent is an extremely hard thing to prove, unless you have a tape recorded conversation, something in writing, or the person otherwise states that their intent was to kill the person, it's a hard battle for the DA.

The way Self Defense is defined in my law handbook, is that it must escalate in stages. I wont write it verbatim, Ill just interpret the meaning for you. Meaning, if you hit me, I can strike you back with equal force, and then attempt to escape ONLY if I can escape without you harming me again. Meaning, if I feel I need to hit you twice in order for me to escape successfully without being injured, it's legal to do so. If you enter my home, and you are armed, if I have a REASONABLE means of escaping my home without you harming me(which has to be proved), then I must take that opportunity to escape, otherwise it is not self defense. However, if you enter my home with a weapon, and Im cornered with no wheres to go, I then have the right to kill you. This is the GENERAL way that the self defense law works in the United States, and is how its being taught to me in college. However, each state has its own set of laws that it adds to the basic principles.

Exactly what I was saying.

[BeerBaron]

hey guys, a friend of mine has asked me to bounce/work the door at her private party. i've done this a lot for friends, but never in a formal fashion, more kicking people out of parties when they get out of hand. there is going to be open access to alcohol in the house, so i will not be allowing minors in. there will probably be anywhere from 25 to 50 people there. my questions to guys who would know is:

1. I myself am two months short of 21, so i know that technically i am not allowed in the house by law, however, i will be outside the whole time unless things get out of hand inside. (my partner is 21 who will be my contact inside). also, i think more than anything, the police will be appreciating the effort, but what kind of legal trouble can i potentially get in for this?

2. it is in our college town of Isla Vista where there are lots of minors, and i know for a fact that two of the girls that live there are under 21 and i am sure that they will be allowing some of their friends who are under 21 to come in as well. it is going to be made very clear to them that if they want their minor friends in that it is their responsibility if the cops show up and that i am going to tell the police the entire truth. can i get into any legal trouble for this?

3. i would like to have more people working with me, but i will have one other completely sober partner and i will know a majority of the guys at the party, who are some of the people i trust the most if i were in any trouble. am i asking for trouble with only two (probably three) people in this situation?

4. i will be bringing some expected things such as clipboard for a list, mag lite for vision (and last resort protection), as well as my two sets of handcuffs if shit gets out of hand. any other things i should bring?

5. they have offered to pay me. i will be working from about 9-2ish. but they are also my friends, but not super close friends. how much should i ask?


in closing, im really not super worried about any of these issues, as i feel i have thought it out pretty well. i wont be drinking. as far as my background, ive been training bjj for about 3 months, muay thai for a month, so i have some (not much) training under my belt, but i have never been in a real street fight, mainly because i work as a transport agent for at risk minors so i have experience and training in verbally de-escalating situations and i feel that fighting is a completely last resort issue. however, with these considered, if i have to i will not hesitate to get physical if need be. wow, this post has gotten long. anyways, ill end here. any thoughts or things i should consider?

1. Umm, technicly you're not allowed to drink... Why wouldn't you be allowed in the house??? No law says you cant be in a house while drinking is going on if you're under age.

2. Tell the police the entire truth!?!? Make sure you never bounce at one of my parties. It's your job to keep police out and assure them nothing is out of control.

3. I've seen about 7 brawls as a result of young bouncers getting power hungry at college parties. Make sure you know the guys won't get too physical.

4. LMAO Hand cuffs!?!? Thats a good way to start a fight, and possibly a law suit; but thats about it.

5. Why in hell would you take risk for free? Besides, if you're working the door, that means you skim off the top of what you collect. Unspoken bouncing rule.

[decadbal]

so did u do it... and my opinion other than what already mentioned is your to young for that kinda gig

[skinnyhb]

ya, i did it. couple of issues, but they were taken care of easily. residents were super pleased. probably about 60 people there at max. made $100 and only really worked from 11-1:30.