Dick Cheney "So?"

[Panzerfaust]

This guy is a piece of ****ing shit, just in case some of you didn't know.

What Dick Cheney says in response to a question by ABC’s Martha Raddatz about 2/3 of Americans thinking the war was not worth fighting:

Raddatz: Two-thirds of Americans say it’s not worth fighting, and they’re looking at the value gain versus the cost in American lives, certainly, and Iraqi lives.

Cheney: So? <sinister smirk>


Raddatz: So — you don’t care what the American people think?

Cheney: No, I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls. Think about what would have happened if Abraham Lincoln had paid attention to polls, if they had had polls during the Civil War. He never would have succeeded if he hadn’t had a clear objective, a vision for where he wanted to go, and he was willing to withstand the slings and arrows of the political wars in order to get there. And this President has been very courageous, very consistent, very determined to continue down the course we were on and to achieve our objective.

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/19/cheney-poll-iraq/



Ok, let me get this straight. A government "for the people by the people" cannot be affected by public opinion? Bwahahahaha!


Goddamn people, how much more do you have to hear or see before you realise they do not give a **** what you think? Stop putting your head in the sand and trying to ignore this shit any longer.

[UberSteroids]

People will never realise this.

Even if they will, they will never speak up.

What do you expect millions of people just go on some major strike against the government?

There is not enough people with ballz to do such thing... even if they did, they will be shut down by police or military.

People just let this go too far. Now they have all these new laws passing, they control everything and soon no one will have any rights.

Might as well not get pissed about it because it wont change anything.

People on the top can do whatever the F$%# they want whenever they want to do it and they don't have to hide it anymore because they got so much power that no one can do sh!t. Simple.

[BITTAPART2]

this POS is just friggin senile!!! I hate this crap, I am proud to be an american but ashamed of the way it has been run for the past 8 years

[Panzerfaust]

People will never realise this.

Even if they will, they will never speak up.

What do you expect millions of people just go on some major strike against the government?

There is not enough people with ballz to do such thing... even if they did, they will be shut down by police or military.

People just let this go too far. Now they have all these new laws passing, they control everything and soon no one will have any rights.

Might as well not get pissed about it because it wont change anything.

People on the top can do whatever the F$%# they want whenever they want to do it and they don't have to hide it anymore because they got so much power that no one can do sh!t. Simple.

Yeah, with that kind of attitude, sure nothing will change. Apparently they have you trained well if this is what you think.

[BITTAPART2]

if we learned anything in IRAQ its that our military cannot control insurgents, so I assume Muriloninja is right. We can take a stand and possible win, we just have to be ready to fight til the death to secure a better existance for our children

[Kratos]

Don't worry, he'll be dead soon after he leaves office. That heart of his is heald together with super-glue and duct tape.

[ecivon]

There are a lot of reasons why this administration cannot be trusted at any level. Anyone who doesn't believe that Bush, Cheney, et al aren't malicious, murderous criminals need their heads examined.

That entire administration is filled with ideological neo-cons and their minions who collectively could give a shit less about the American people, the economy, our image in the world, or what we think. We are witnessing a systematic pillaging of our countries wealth and sending our soldiers off to die in idiotic wars and conflicts of their making.

I can't stand the sight of any of them. But then there is always the prospect of the next president being Clinton, or McCain -- that is even more frightening and disgusting. More years stacked on top of more years of the same radicalism.

[soccer#3]

im packin my bags. who's wit me ?? i know atomini is goin to the netherlands and murilo is goin to germany. im goin to brazil

[BITTAPART2]

at least Clintons crazy arse has potential to help the greater economic quotent in this country, Mcain OMG hes another Cheney if you ask me, not only because hes 4000years old but the guy is angry(i cant blame him, he was in a friggin POW camp) but Im not voting for his old arse either. Obama looks like he picked the wrong church to go to and screwed himself big on that one, so maybe my hypothetical revolution will someday soon be a reality

[BITTAPART2]

oh and ARUBA for me

[BITTAPART2]

they always talk about their "objective" what is it actually? I can gurauntee Bush would see nothing worng with saying "imposing our democratic system and morals on the rest of the world because we are right hee hee"

[goodcents]

Good god, I just had time to watch it and it you just get sick thinking these people control the world He smirks like an old ass hole!!!!!!

[Kärnfysikern]

"The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny, however, is alleviated by their lack of consistency".

First prize for anyone who can guess who said the above.

[soccer#3]

u?

[Kratos]

First prize for anyone who can guess who said the above.

-Albert Einstein

[soccer#3]

i know who but i cheated.. sorry

[Kärnfysikern]

-Albert Einstein

[xero]

I am not from the US so maybe i shouldn't comment on issues like this as much as i do these days. But it impacts on me as a global citizen, so i feel i have right to comment.

Most of my comment is very negative towards the current US leadership and i have been called on it on this board by a couple of very patriotic members. Now I can understand the sensitivity of an "outsider" criticizing something that is so close to your identity, so the patriotic rebuttals are expected.

In context of this thread, where a number of US members are, rightly so, completely pissed by this ridiculous comment from their VP, i just want to say the following as a non-US citizen:

I cannot believe that a nation whos leadership has been an inspiration to the world for so long can produce, never mind elect, such an unbelievably poor and weak leadership in bush/cheney over the last eight years.

The US is undoubtedly the leader of the world. Whoever is elected leader of the US becomes the de facto world leader and his policies and decisions have a huge impact on us non-US citizens. But we have no say in choosing this leadership.

So, you as US citizens have got to do better than your last two disastrous attempts to elect a world leader. You have some exceptional leaders in your country, but it is seriously worrying to see the lack of quality in your choices this time round.

Please, do not fnck it up again.

[soccer#3]

who were these so called patriotic members u speak of?

[MuscleScience]

I dont like his attitude towards the question, he could have been a little more political. I do agree that Cheney is a POS for sure. But I do agree with his comments about not fighting a war based on the whims of public opinion. I think now that the war in Iraq was based on some really BS circumstances.

Having said that we cant just cut and run because its unpopular. Everyone knows that it would have consequences that both Iraq and the US could not afford, thats not even debatable. Were we as Americans Citizens made the mistake was not being more critical of the governments reason for war in Iraq. We cant sit back and be monday morning quarter backs, and then say he well we should pull the troops out right now cause the war was based on BS.

Every soldier I know including family and some of my best friends don't want to go over there. But they passionately do not want the US to pull out without at least some level of completion to their job. As my brother said before he came back home from his 18 month tour. "We dont want to look like a bunch of pussies again and be blamed for losing another war because those at home dont know how things are really going and what we are doing."

[Z-Ro]

As a person who enjoys politics and to play the part of the bad guy; I actually agree with what Cheney says about ignoring public opinion.

Let me start off by stating that I am in no way or form a supporter of the Bush administration or the Iraq War. I do believe that we should leave and that in this instance the public opinion has been consistent for a few years now against the war in Iraq. The part I agree with is the 'political science' in what he said. Sometimes the public opinion can be hawkish, as we saw post-911 and actually supported GW Bush and the war. I think that politicians and military commanders must at times not bend to the public demand if by doing so it leads to the demise or power loss of the state.

In this case, I agree that we should get out of Iraq as soon as possible. I do not like Cheney and this video shows how cocky this administration was and in my opinion, their success. Lets face it, Bush basically did what he wanted in office and got away with it.

[Panzerfaust]

First prize for anyone who can guess who said the above.

Einstein!

[Panzerfaust]

I am not from the US so maybe i shouldn't comment on issues like this as much as i do these days. But it impacts on me as a global citizen, so i feel i have right to comment.

Most of my comment is very negative towards the current US leadership and i have been called on it on this board by a couple of very patriotic members. Now I can understand the sensitivity of an "outsider" criticizing something that is so close to your identity, so the patriotic rebuttals are expected.

In context of this thread, where a number of US members are, rightly so, completely pissed by this ridiculous comment from their VP, i just want to say the following as a non-US citizen:

I cannot believe that a nation whos leadership has been an inspiration to the world for so long can produce, never mind elect, such an unbelievably poor and weak leadership in bush/cheney over the last eight years.
The US is undoubtedly the leader of the world. Whoever is elected leader of the US becomes the de facto world leader and his policies and decisions have a huge impact on us non-US citizens. But we have no say in choosing this leadership.

So, you as US citizens have got to do better than your last two disastrous attempts to elect a world leader. You have some exceptional leaders in your country, but it is seriously worrying to see the lack of quality in your choices this time round.

Please, do not fnck it up again.

You say this as if we "the people" have a choice. The fact is, we don't!

The so called "nominated President" is simply selected by the Elite as the face of their agenda.

You have to remember, these "Elite" have all the money and they will support whoever they choose. Whoever you see "win" the election is who these "Elite" chose years ago.

[Z-Ro]

Also, to add to my original post...it is in my opinion that the war in Iraq is actually slowly draining the power of the US. The war in Iraq and Afghanistan have made no progress, our military is thinned out, the US is being frowned upon globally more than ever, and our economy is doing terrible--so much for war helping out?

I believe there is no "winning" the war in Iraq or Afghanistan, there is no conventional army to be defeated. Untill we find a way to sucessfully beat an insurgency, we will be there for a long long time. The US needs to get its shit together domestically, internationally, culturally, and socially. I may sound whacko but I see myself as a patriot and I just want the US to be as strong as it can while trying to make a decent effort to communicate, listen too, and cooperate with other countries.

[Panzerfaust]

I dont like his attitude towards the question, he could have been a little more political. I do agree that Cheney is a POS for sure. But I do agree with his comments about not fighting a war based on the whims of public opinionSo "the people;s" opinion means nothing?. I think now that the war in Iraq was based on some really BS circumstances.

Having said that we cant just cut and run because its unpopularWhy not?. Everyone knows that it would have consequences that both Iraq and the US could not afford, thats not even debatableLast time I checked, the US cannot afford the war as it is, so do some research before you type. It is very debatable.. Were we as Americans Citizens made the mistake was not being more critical of the governments reason for war in Iraq.Too many "Americans" have been drinking the kool-aid and can no lonmger think for themselves and trust in the gov't to do its own thing without any oversight We cant sit back and be monday morning quarter backs, and then say he well we should pull the troops out right now cause the war was based on BS.

Every soldier I know including family and some of my best friends don't want to go over there. But they passionately do not want the US to pull out without at least some level of completion to their job. As my brother said before he came back home from his 18 month tour. "We dont want to look like a bunch of pussies again and be blamed for losing another war because those at home dont know how things are really going and what we are doing."

Above!

[MuscleScience]

Above!

I wasnt talking merely in terms of dollars and cents, I was referring to Monetary, political, military, human, and specifically world standing for the US. If you remember Bin Laden believed that America could be defeated militarily because the American people can not handle casualties. He said that many years before 9-11.

Secondly, roughly 80% of americans approved of going to war with Iraq at the start. So your argument about about peoples opinions not mattering in a sense is not relevant. Peoples opinions are time relevant, so if so many people were for the war to start then suddenly 2 years later after the war is being prosecuted then the public decides that we should pull out no matter what the current situation is. Its like saying you want to get married and have kids with a women, you get married and have a couple kids and decide I really dont want to be married any more after a few years then leave and bail on the family. Knowing that your kids will suffer, which is the consequence of your marriage.

That is the cowards way out and is exactly what Bin Laden said would happen to the US if they were engaged in a long drawn out low intensity conflict.

Lastly you dont have to insult me by telling me to do my research, I am an avid history buff and have read somewhere in the range of 300 books related to it even thought I have little time because im researching for my graduate degree in an unrelated field.

That is the second time you have insulted me in a thread the first time I said nothing. I respect your opinion no matter how it differs from my own. I would appreciate the same in return from you. Shit I agreed with about 80 % of what you said in this thread you dont have to get defensive because I question one line in your thread.

We can disagree with each other without getting pissed off, I know its a hot subject. Civil, free and open debate is what seperates us from most of the rest of the world.

[Panzerfaust]

I wasnt talking merely in terms of dollars and cents, I was referring to Monetary, political, military, human, and specifically world standing for the US. If you remember Bin Laden believed that America could be defeated militarily because the American people can not handle casualties. He said that many years before 9-11.

Secondly, roughly 80% of americans approved of going to war with Iraq at the start. So your argument about about peoples opinions not mattering in a sense is not relevant. Peoples opinions are time relevant, so if so many people were for the war to start then suddenly 2 years later after the war is being prosecuted then the public decides that we should pull out no matter what the current situation is. Its like saying you want to get married and have kids with a women, you get married and have a couple kids and decide I really dont want to be married any more after a few years then leave and bail on the family. Knowing that your kids will suffer, which is the consequence of your marriage.

That is the cowards way out and is exactly what Bin Laden said would happen to the US if they were engaged in a long drawn out low intensity conflict.

Lastly you dont have to insult me by telling me to do my research, I am an avid history buff and have read somewhere in the range of 300 books related to it even thought I have little time because im researching for my graduate degree in an unrelated field.

That is the second time you have insulted me in a thread the first time I said nothing. I respect your opinion no matter how it differs from my own. I would appreciate the same in return from you. Shit I agreed with about 80 % of what you said in this thread you dont have to get defensive because I question one line in your thread.

We can disagree with each other without getting pissed off, I know its a hot subject. Civil, free and open debate is what seperates us from most of the rest of the world.

And who told you that? CNN? FOX?

I get what you are trying to say but "we the people" have the goddamn say around here, not the cocksucking faggots in office.

The deal is this, they either represent us how we choose or we vote there ass out of office. But since so many have buried their goddamn heads in the sand, the politicians are openly showing us now that they no longer follow the will of the people.

If we were to pull out of Iraq, what do we ****ing care what we look like? Are we pussies? No, just trying to fix what a dumb cocksucker got us into.

It's not as if our country and freedom is under attack at this very moment. 9/11 was only used as a catalyst to gain public support, typical propoganda technique that works everytime.

We should pull back, restrengthen ourselves from within and let other countries rule their countries and stop dropping ****ing bombs in the name of "Peace" and "Democracy"...Democracy is a ****ing farce and is the worst form of gov't there is. It's nothing more than a majority rules, I don't know about you but I don't give a damn what the majority think.

I know that if I do not commit fraud or harm upon any other man then I have a right to live my life the way I see fit. I am not a ****ing serf and will not be.

That is exactly what this country has become filled with "serfs".

[J431S]

Raddatz: So — you don’t care what the American people think?

Cheney: No, I think you cannot be blown off course by the fluctuations in the public opinion polls. Think about what would have happened if Abraham Lincoln had paid attention to polls, if they had had polls during the Civil War. He never would have succeeded if he hadn’t had a clear objective, a vision for where he wanted to go, and he was willing to withstand the slings and arrows of the political wars in order to get there. And this President has been very courageous, very consistent, very determined to continue down the course we were on and to achieve our objective.

Ok, let me get this straight. A government "for the people by the people" cannot be affected by public opinion? Bwahahahaha!


Goddamn people, how much more do you have to hear or see before you realise they do not give a **** what you think? Stop putting your head in the sand and trying to ignore this shit any longer.

cheney sucks....i mean why would he drew such anology for a war that's misscalculated with the success and judgement of abe lincoln? this ba$tard needs to proesecuted for war crimes...that's the action that needs to be taken.

[MuscleScience]

And who told you that? CNN? FOX?

I get what you are trying to say but "we the people" have the goddamn say around here, not the cocksucking faggots in office.

The deal is this, they either represent us how we choose or we vote there ass out of office. But since so many have buried their goddamn heads in the sand, the politicians are openly showing us now that they no longer follow the will of the people.

If we were to pull out of Iraq, what do we ****ing care what we look like? Are we pussies? No, just trying to fix what a dumb cocksucker got us into.

It's not as if our country and freedom is under attack at this very moment. 9/11 was only used as a catalyst to gain public support, typical propoganda technique that works everytime.

We should pull back, restrengthen ourselves from within and let other countries rule their countries and stop dropping ****ing bombs in the name of "Peace" and "Democracy"...Democracy is a ****ing farce and is the worst form of gov't there is. It's nothing more than a majority rules, I don't know about you but I don't give a damn what the majority think.

I know that if I do not commit fraud or harm upon any other man then I have a right to live my life the way I see fit. I am not a ****ing serf and will not be.

That is exactly what this country has become filled with "serfs".

I believe I read it in a book titled The Case Against War: The Essential Legal Inquiries, Opinions and Judgements ...
By George Farebrother, Nick Kollerstrom,

but I may be mistaken.

I agree that people are sheep in sheep's clothing. I don't think democracy in principle is bad, its the practice of it in our country right now.

I wish that the American people would wake up and relies that the original intent of the USA was to be a confederation of states, were states had the right to rule their day to day affairs. The Federal Government was meant to be strong and have ultimate authority over national affairs, with restraint. The Federal Government took advantage of state sovereignty by misuse of the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887. This in effect allowed for the first federal regulatory agency. This act set a legal precedence to set up more regulatory bodies. Though the original intent was good and helped farmers and merchants fight railroad corruption. It was later used as a stepping stone to set up other laws and acts.


Our freedoms didn't erode over night they have been taken little by little in front of us, behind us and from under us. The lost of habeas corpus is the modern corollary to what Ben Franklin was talking about in you signature.


It seems that americans just go day by day and never really take heed to what is going on in the world. We are more concerned with what is going on with Britney Spear's day to day life. Then when we need some real news we get it in thirty second opinionated sound bites by asshole anchor men and women on TV and never really get the whole story.

That Sir is why I read and read and read, even if it takes more time I at least feel that I get a fuller understanding of what is going on in the world.

[MuscleScience]

Plus I dont have cable.

[Z-Ro]

[QUOTE=MuscleScience;3883496]I believe I read it in a book titled A Case For War, but I may be mistaken.

I agree that people are sheep in sheep's clothing. I don't think democracy in principle is bad, its the practice of it in our country right now.

I wish that the American people would wake up and relies that the original intent of the USA was to be a confederation of states, were states had the right to rule their day to day affairs. The Federal Government was meant to be strong and have ultimate authority over national affairs, with restraint. The Federal Government took advantage of state sovereignty by misuse of the Interstate Commerce Act of 1887. This in effect allowed for the first federal regulatory agency. This act set a legal precedence to set up more regulatory bodies. Though the original intent was good and helped farmers and merchants fight railroad corruption. It was later used as a stepping stone to set up other laws and acts.


Our freedoms didn't erode over night they have been taken little by little in front of us, behind us and from under us. The lost of habeas corpus is the modern corollary to what Ben Franklin was talking about in you signature.


It seems that americans just go day by day and never really take heed to what is going on in the world. We are more concerned with what is going on with Britney Spear's day to day life. Then when we need some real news we get it in thirty second opinionated sound bites by asshole anchor men and women on TV and never really get the whole story.

That Sir is why I read and read and read, even if it takes more time I at least feel that I get a fuller understanding of what is going on in the world.[/QUOTE]

Nice post man...totally agree with you on the more you learn, the more you want to learn to understand whats really going on.

[goodcents]

After seeing ken burns civil war, I see why bush and cheney hang off from lincoln's dick, he was just like them, throwing people in jail for no reason, violating rights and he had to win no matter who died, fuk lincoln, hope he rots in hell!!!!!!!!!! ps, he didn't give a fuk about the slaves, listen to his own speeches

[UberSteroids]

Yeah, with that kind of attitude, sure nothing will change. Apparently they have you trained well if this is what you think.

Nobody trains me! I KNOW what is going on around me. I am not the brainwashed one. I just said how the majority of the people is, that's all.

Ok, prove me wrong and show me how YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD!

Definitely not by sitting here and bragging about it... You gotta have some plan going on, don't you?!

Let us all in, so will see how many will support you... Is it all talk? Or are you for real? Are you planning on changing anything? We need a leader! Must be you?! So what's the plan Sir?! What is the F%$##@ plan?!

[goodcents]

Nobody trains me! I KNOW what is going on around me. I am not the brainwashed one. I just said how the majority of the people is, that's all.

Ok, prove me wrong and show me how YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD!

Definitely not by sitting here and bragging about it... You gotta have some plan going on, don't you?!

Let us all in, so will see how many will support you... Is it all talk? Or are you for real? Are you planning on changing anything? We need a leader! Must be you?! So what's the plan Sir?! What is the F%$##@ plan?!

I'm not going to lie, that was funny

[MuscleScience]

After seeing ken burns civil war, I see why bush and cheney hang off from lincoln's dick

Yeah that was a really good program, We all view lincoln as some sort of civil rights all people equal kind of guy but he certainly had some extreme tactics to get what he wanted done.

[pumpd4lif]

Nobody trains me! I KNOW what is going on around me. I am not the brainwashed one. I just said how the majority of the people is, that's all.

Ok, prove me wrong and show me how YOU ARE GOING TO CHANGE THE WORLD!

Definitely not by sitting here and bragging about it... You gotta have some plan going on, don't you?!

Let us all in, so will see how many will support you... Is it all talk? Or are you for real? Are you planning on changing anything? We need a leader! Must be you?! So what's the plan Sir?! What is the F%$##@ plan?!

ya ,so lets just sit and say we dont have a choice,why bother,it is to late to change.
And thats what they want u to think and how they want u to act and u have fallen rite into the pattern that they want all americans to fall into ,sure give up ur beliefs,give up ur rites as u have already given up everything else as ur post pretty much says.Change starts with 1 person that has a belief,can u think for urself or will u choose to just give in...im sry it sounds like u already gave in.

[UberSteroids]

ya ,so lets just sit and say we dont have a choice,why bother,it is to late to change.
And thats what they want u to think and how they want u to act and u have fallen rite into the pattern that they want all americans to fall into ,sure give up ur beliefs,give up ur rites as u have already given up everything else as ur post pretty much says.Change starts with 1 person that has a belief,can u think for urself or will u choose to just give in...im sry it sounds like u already gave in.

Now... are you the leader? Are you going to change the WORLD? Because to me looks like you are just another talker...

...talk is cheap.. do something and stop bragging about it. You are telling me that I just sit here, but you are no different... you started it, well then there MUST be a plan!

Where is the plan captain? You gotta have it at least half way ready? Do you? What is the plan of attack sir?!

I didn't say that I gave in, I just need a leader...

[thegodfather]

They call it the American dream, because you have to be asleep to believe it.

[Tesla]

Actually, Cheney is exactly right on this. He wasn't very tactful but he's still right. The founding fathers of the United States warned against a pure democracy. The U.S. was not founded to be a democracy...it was founded to be a constitutional republic. The words democracy weren't even found in a presidential speech until the 1920's. True leadership does not mean following the whims of the masses. In fact, the term democrat was originally a slang term meaning "follows the whims of the ignorant masses." Leadership often means making tough decisions....even unpopular ones.

[Panzerfaust]

Now... are you the leader? Are you going to change the WORLD? Because to me looks like you are just another talker...

...talk is cheap.. do something and stop bragging about it. You are telling me that I just sit here, but you are no different... you started it, well then there MUST be a plan!

Where is the plan captain? You gotta have it at least half way ready? Do you? What is the plan of attack sir?!

I didn't say that I gave in, I just need a leader...

http://www.ronpaulmarch.com/ and http://www.ronpaulmarch.com/bb/