Best type of diet for fat loss

[bossman_1986]

What type of diet is best for fat loss while maintaining as much muscle as possible??

1. high protein, low fat, low carbs
2. high protein, high fat, low carbs
3. high protein, low fat, medium carbs

???

which type of diet has worked best for you?

[Kratos]

I vote #3

[smokeyd]

i go number 3 also, i was really big and thought i couldnt have any carbs so i had less than a hundred everyday for a couple months and droped a lot but hit a wall and added carbs and started loosing again

[novastepp]

i subscribe to a high protein/high carb diet whether bulking or cutting. best policy IMO, and i'll never follow another one.

[VeraDeMilo]

the Ketogenic diet in my opinion is best. High protein/High fat/No carbs. (well actually its very low carbs. You will take in between 20-40g of carbs a day indirectly, but those end up burning off during your workout)

I have ran this many times myself. I believe this is the fastest way to lose weight while keeping as much muscle as possible. I have actually gained strength on this diet while losing 30 lbs while natural.
You have to tweak it precisely based on your LBM and what your actual maintenance calorie intake should be along with your activity level. And you have to be extremely strict and only cheat one meal a week in order for it to work efficiently. Best if ran for 12-16 weeks.

You will actually lose about 8-10 lbs of water in the first week or two just ridding your body of the carbs.

[IronReload04]

you cant rank this universally. People's physiology is so variable from person to person its imossible to say which is best.

For example- obviosuly, the guy that everyone knows who cant gain weight to save his life is not going to need to carb deplete at all where the fat kid whose been fat all his life probably will. its variable.


the best system is the one that works for you.....

but, I would think that many people "who need to ask"

probably
high protein, mod fat, very very low carbs.

[novastepp]

to original poster: we talking just weight loss, or fat loss? it says fat loss, but it seems many people are talking about weight loss, two totally different things.

to a bodybuilder, i can give tons of information stating how carbohydrates are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to progressing in strength, stamina, and body composition.

[VeraDeMilo]

to original poster: we talking just weight loss, or fat loss? it says fat loss, but it seems many people are talking about weight loss, two totally different things.

to a bodybuilder, i can give tons of information stating how carbohydrates are ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY to progressing in strength, stamina, and body composition.

Correct. Necessary to PROGRESSING. No one argued that fact. Carbohydrates, however are not necessary if the goal is only to maintain muscle while cutting fat. (For a limited period of time)

[novastepp]

Correct. Necessary to PROGRESSING. No one argued that fact. Carbohydrates, however are not necessary if the goal is only to maintain muscle while cutting fat. (For a limited period of time)

they are still absolutely necessary. progression can be fat loss. that is a progression towards leanness. maintaining or recompoing is still progression. i was merely saying that if you want to improve your physique, carbohydrates are absolutely necessary.

studies along with real world examples show that a steady stream of carbohydrates produces more of a fat burning effect than neglecting them or using negligible amounts. also, maintaining a steady, yet somewhat lowered state of insulin release will also prove beneficial in regard to fat loss, and keeping fat gain halted; using carbohydrates regularly.

again, we're talking about maintaining lean mass and nothing better than carbs and protein.

[VeraDeMilo]

Carbs do come into play during the ketogenic diet, which is why I stated the cheat meal is crucial. However, steady carb intake or high carbs is not beneficial.

From "Cyclical Ketogenic Diet, The Science"- by Justin Frank.

-"In actuality a ketogenic diet has a muscle sparing effect compared to higher carb diets due in the most part to the huge supply of fatty acids and ketones. Basically, there is no need for the body to break down muscle for energy. Also, part of the benefit of the cyclical approach to ketogenic dieting is the carb-load. When the carb load is introduced glycogen synthesis can be increased two-fold after a depletion period, cellular hydration is increased hugely, insulin response is increased, after the depletion workout (more on this in part two) muscles are highly insulin sensitive, and all these factors and more are likely enough to rebuild any lost muscle tissue during the dieting phase. During the low carb period growth hormone is also high, further speeding fat loss and preventing muscle loss."

Again, I am talking about dieting for fat loss, while sparing muscle.

On a side note, don't forget, the body also has the ability to convert fats and protein into glucose.

When on a high carbohydrate diet, the body becomes less suficient at burning fat for fuel because it relies on a steady energy source entering the body in the form of carbs. While in Ketosis, the body becomes more sufficient at using fats as energy with no more reliance on carbs. You also excrete any ketones that have not been burned off as energy through your urine. In ketosis your body prefers the ketones (fat) to glucose as its main energy source. Also, with your insulin levels low, your growth hormone levels increase. Speeding up fat loss and aiding in muscle repair.
In addition to this, you will crave food less while on a ketogenic diet. Ketones have the ability to blunt hunger. Carbs induce hunger. Which is what you don't want while trying to diet

[IronReload04]

fats are for sure muscle sparing.

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

low everything. I starve myself. Works great!


Before:





After:





This was a grueling 3 month process. All I did was 2000 sit ups a day, and after had a Muscle Tech shake. That is all.

[Reed]

^^^^^^^Is that Kevin Nash. Sorry Big that killed me last night. Looking good BTW, if thats really you. LOL



I'm staying tuned to this thread fo sho. I wanna see the debate!!!!!!!! Scientific articles and real life prove!!!!!!!! Hope this gets big. I might join in too

[DSM4Life]

low everything. I starve myself. Works great!


Before:





After:





This was a grueling 3 month process. All I did was 2000 sit ups a day, and after had a Muscle Tech shake. That is all.

How could you starve yourself and still have enough energy for intense gym time ?

What type of diet is best for fat loss while maintaining as much muscle as possible??

1. high protein, low fat, low carbs
2. high protein, high fat, low carbs
3. high protein, low fat, medium carbs

???

which type of diet has worked best for you?

There is no right answer. You have to test each one out and see what works for you.

[dece870717]

Carb cycling.

[novastepp]

Carbs do come into play during the ketogenic diet, which is why I stated the cheat meal is crucial.
cheat meals are never beneficial. ever. throwing crap into a diet is just that. look up carb cycling. carb loading, and carb depletion. no reason to ever cheat.

However, steady carb intake or high carbs is not beneficial.
bogus statement

From "Cyclical Ketogenic Diet, The Science"- by Justin Frank.

who is this and where did you find the article?

-"In actuality a ketogenic diet has a muscle sparing effect compared to higher carb diets due in the most part to the huge supply of fatty acids and ketones. absolutely no evidence presented. opinion is not fact and in this case, this statement can be proven more true by introducing carbohydrates into the diet.

Basically, there is no need for the body to break down muscle for energy.
this would be teh case after any food consumption.

Also, part of the benefit of the cyclical approach to ketogenic dieting is the carb-load. When the carb load is introduced glycogen synthesis can be increased two-fold after a depletion period, cellular hydration is increased hugely, insulin response is increased, after the depletion workout (more on this in part two) muscles are highly insulin sensitive, and all these factors and more are likely enough to rebuild any lost muscle tissue during the dieting phase.

EXACTLY WHY carbohydrate selection and implementation are critical. no reason this cannot be achieved routinely, even daily with carb loading and carb cycling, but to lower the body into ketosis will not provide any effect to the degree that carb cycling or adequate distribution throughout the day would also provide. Selection of carbs is also a must. that is why we look to the GI index and carb load provided by particular foods.


During the low carb period growth hormone is also high, further speeding fat loss and preventing muscle loss."

typical "bro-knowledge" here. you think that eating crap is beneficial, then i know you will believe that the insulin "response...not spike" issued afterward is going to be enough to suppress GH? I would love top read a scientific study that proves food will tamper with a regulatory hormone. not going to happen. only way that wiould be teh case is if you were using it endogenously, in which case you should also be using GH and other peptides, but that isn't the case here so that is false.

Again, I am talking about dieting for fat loss, while sparing muscle.

me too.

On a side note, don't forget, the body also has the ability to convert fats and protein into glucose.

the body will convert any unneeded nutrition into glycogen as well. another benefit of using carbohydrates regularly.


When on a high carbohydrate diet, the body becomes less suficient at burning fat for fuel because it relies on a steady energy source entering the body in the form of carbs.

just from carbs eh? no. the body will always rely on a steady energy source. they roll in this order. carbs. proteins. fats. so when you workout and your body doesn't have 1. sufficient blood sugar 2. suffecient glycogen storage 3. free fatty acids, where do you think it's going to tap? muscle/protein/amino acids next. workouts are catabolic to two tissues: fat and protein. fats in the form of free fatty acids which will not last 5 minutes if you train hard, and then protein, which will then starve your muscles and your training will become detrimental.

also, a steady stream of insulin will PRIME your body for fat loss. the hormone will help regulate glycogen stprage and if you are training for, yes fat loss, then it will begin to ensure a rythm of using that dietary fat as fuel. essentially your body will say, "no need for this fat because we have atored energy" your training is what plays next. that is why its diet and cardio. now if done correctly and with carb cycling, one could achieve fat loss without cardio. yes, it's actually easy to do. provide similar amountsof carbohydrates at different intervals, and your body will begin storing glycogen and at that point your diet becomes the catalyst for change, not your training. it never knows when it will need more or less stored fuel so it will subsequently not store fat.

While in Ketosis, the body becomes more sufficient at using fats as energy with no more reliance on carbs.

reliant on fat. obvious. it has to, because if it uses its protein stores that becomes detrimental to the CNS. and if you are training, that will further hinder progress. you are then depriving the CNS of much needed fuel.

You also excrete any ketones that have not been burned off as energy through your urine. In ketosis your body prefers the ketones (fat) to glucose as its main energy source.
again, prefers? it has no choice.

Also, with your insulin levels low, your growth hormone levels increase.

i love people who think that natural hormone levels are going to shoot up enough to tell a diff merely from a meal or two. not going to happen here. i would like to see another study for this one too.

Speeding up fat loss and aiding in muscle repair.

sure exogenous amounts of GH will. but we were talking about diet not exogenous substances

In addition to this, you will crave food less while on a ketogenic diet. Ketones have the ability to blunt hunger. Carbs induce hunger. Which is what you don't want while trying to diet

it may be true that carbs induce hunger, but are you not combining them with anything? a lean protein source alone will blunt any satiation problems associated with carbohydrate intake. I still take in over 3000 cals daily when cutting for fat loss and muscle retention. I still eat over 200g carbs daily. and I'm satiated because i do use a mediated carb spread throughout my meals, and if i feel hungry i listen to my body and up the fat intake slightly to counteract any negative response i have. i listen to my body, not deprive it.

a lot of mostly-false "bro-info" that i hear passed around all the time. none of which has proved successful for myself, anyone I know personally, or anyone who has reached super-par results on this site, or in a scientific study.

I'm pulling my info from these sources:

Leucine Regulates Translation Initiation of Protein Synthesis in Skeletal Muscle after Exercise
Layne E. Norton and Donald K. Layman

Manninen, A. Hyperinsulinaemia, hyperaminoacidaemia and post-exercise muscle anabolism: the search for the optimal recovery drink. 2006.

Schwenk, T. When Food Becomes A Drug: Nonanabolic Nutritional Supplement Use in Athletes. 2003.

International Union of Pure and Applied Chemistry (1960) J. Am. Chem. Soc. 82, 5581.

Stellingwerff, T., Boit, M. K., Res,. (Dec2007) Nutritional strategies to optimize training and recovery in performance and middle-distance athletes. Journal of Sports Sciences, Supplement 1, Vol. 25, p17-28, 12p


You're an athlete.. You need carbs mate.

Regardless of whether you're cutting or bulking.

Carbs.

Good clean carbs.
summation in bold

[bossman_1986]

i've never tried this personally but what do you guys think of a diet like this...

cycling your carbs from high carb one day, low carb the next day and then no carbs at all the next day then doing it over while keeping protein and fat high on all days???

[novastepp]

i would find a baseline. and move around that. i would never have no carbs. glycogen replenishment and energy are musts. plus as you can see i'm a firm proprietor and believer in a higher carb diet scheme.

what you could do is lower them for a few days, below your mid-line point. say if you would always have 300g of carbs a day, go 200 for 4 days. then have a high carb day of 500g. then the next day go down to 150g. then 200 for 2 days and then back up to 500 again and then repeat the process.

i would never go below 100g of carbs a day. especially when training. and the more active you are the higher that "never go below number" should be.

[bossman_1986]

[IronReload04]

novastep.......what kind of genetics do you have.....


are you born skinny, born fat? born just right?

endo tendencies, **** or ecto is what I am getting at?

just curious....I am very interested in your view points....its different than what I am accustomed to and again i am very interested in them.

[gixxerboy1]

im on the snickers and ice cream diet. I like it so far

[Doc.Sust]

atkins

[novastepp]

novastep.......what kind of genetics do you have.....


are you born skinny, born fat? born just right?

endo tendencies, **** or ecto is what I am getting at?

just curious....I am very interested in your view points....its different than what I am accustomed to and again i am very interested in them.

well this may catch some flame. but i don't have great genetics. i don't believe in that endo, ecto, **** stuff either. i was born huge. big kid and grew early. never chubby, but not skinny either. i played sports all the damn time and i still do. i love exercise and i love training and diet.

that being said, i feel like i have controlled my genetics to a degree. well maybe control isnt the best word, but i have worked hard enough to not let them effect me as much as they may.

but to honestly anser your question based on how people categorize it. i am a little bit of both. i get puffy when i bulk and have to get particular with my diet or i'll put on a little extra. i feel like i stay soft during all bulks, but i never get "fat" i havent been over 15% since i started taking diet and training seriously about 2-3 years ago. but i am 5'9" and i'm stocky, so some probably think i'm **** too. but my family and i when i was younger was also slim, so thats a little ecto mixed in there.

now you asking that lets me know that some of that was rhetorical, you wondering how that diet would work with folks of different "genetic combos"? it would be addressed more based on whee they are with their current body composition.

[Gears]

I usually crash diet, very low cals, very high protien.

[VeraDeMilo]

To the original poster... give the ketogenic diet a try for a few months. The reason most people fail at it is because of how hard it is. Well actually when I say ketogenic diet, I am referring more to the Palumbo diet. Dave Palumbo kind of tweaked it. IF you need more info on his diet or to see real life examples of people who have tried it, go to his forum on muscular development.

While this diet isn't new, it is recently becomming widely used in the world of bodybuilding. Two examples of bodybuilders that he advises on diet who now use it for competition are Even Centropani and Tony Freeman. Evan actually has a forum mostly dedicated to it on the universal website as well as a lot of info on his muscular development forum too.

I have ran this diet for the last two summers natural without anabolics, growth hormones, etc. Just a multivitamine, fishoil, VitC, and protein supplement. Both summers I achieved weightloss in the range of 25-35lbs in 12-16 weeks. The percent of weighloss was 90%fat 10% muscle.

From years of dieting with carbohydrates in the diet. I only lost 10-15 lbs dieting for the same time frame and the same type of cardio. Calorie intake was the exact same. Percentage of weightloss was 70% fat and 30% muscle. I also maintained more of a "smooth" look from the water weight that carbs make u maintain.

Two of my training buddies are national level bodybuilding competitors. One competes heavyweight, and one light heavyweight. Both have used the Palumbo diet the last year and moved up drastically in the placement of their shows this year.

What it boils down to though is what works for you. Everyone has an opinion about everything. Some people advocate long cycles, some say short cycling is best. Some like HIT training, some say volume training is best. Some say to take 2g of protein per lb of bodyweight. Some say your body can only utilize .72g per kg of bodyweight and anything more is wasted.
I say its all trial and error. Everyone reacts differently to everything. if you have dieted with carbs in the past and you are not satisfied with your results give the Palumbo diet a try. Remember, we are talkng about bodybuilding. Not Athletics. two completely different things.

[novastepp]

to original poster

in any case, i wouldn't follow those methods myself and i would never advocate them to an athlete (bodybuilding is an athletic sport), who relies so much on energy and stored energy for gains and progress.

[VeraDeMilo]

Edited: I was asked to remove this for the no flame policy

[novastepp]

Edited: I was asked to remove this for the no flame policy

pm's still work right?

[VeraDeMilo]

pm's still work right?

Yep. Both ways

[bossman_1986]

bump...lets keep this debate goingg

[hugovsilva]

Depends from person to person.

What I found works better for me is high protein, low carbs and medium fat. Timing nutrients is the key here. Carbs only for breakfast, pre and post workout and keep fat and carbs separated with protein in every meal every 2,5 hours. In no-workout days I will have carbs only for breakfast and Saturday or Sunday I do a high carb day.

[inky-e]

To us diet means one thing to people that are overweight/obese/morbidly obese....or like I call them..fat bastards! Diets mean something else...for someone needing to lose 100+ lbs...nothing short of a 1000 to 1200 cal a day diet with strict restrictions will work...for us..wanting to drop a few lbs or some Bf....we only need adjusting what we usually take in...most likely a little less of everything...while keeping protein at a minimum 1g per lb of bodyweight...Always keeping in mind that cardio/training goes hand in hand with our diet.

[bossman_1986]

bump

[J-Dogg]

I've been anti-carb for YEARS.

I would introduce carbs and flip out, becaue I thought I was getting fat.

I recently just said screw it, i'm eating tons of carbs, tons of protien trying to put on 30lbs in the winter.

I put on 13lbs, eating as much as I can.

I look better than I did in the summer, My work outs are AWSOME, I have tons of energy, I feel amazing.

I can cut fat really easy, but the only way I can get a good work out when I cut the carbs is if I'm taking ECA before I work out.

I normally don't even sweat when I lift, I'm sweating after my 2-3rd set right now. Work outs are just much more intense.

I'm all for carbs now.

But cutting them out IMO is the best way to loose fat fast for me. between 30-80 carbs per day, lower fat. Chicken/tuna/lean beef/veggies/some dairy.

[jasonwill]

Here is the list of things that i had to take to lose my body fat and this is given by my trainer -

Protein

Boneless, Skinless Chicken Breast
Tuna (water packed)
Fish (salmon, seabass, halibut, sushi, mahi mahi, Orange roughi, tilapia, Sardines)
Shrimp
Extra Lean Ground Beef or Ground Round (92-96%)
Venison
Buffalo
Ostrich
Protein Powder (Whey, Casein, Soy, Egg)
Eggs
Low or Non-Fat Cottage cheese, Ricotta
Low fat or Non fat Yogurt
Ribeye Steaks or Roast
Top Round Steaks or Roast (stew meat, London broil, Stir fry)
Top Sirloin (Sirloin Top Butt)
Beef Tenderloin (filet mignon)
Top Loin (NY Strip Steak)
Flank Steak (Stir Fry, Fajitas)
Eye of Round (Cube meat, Stew meat, Bottom Round)
Ground Turkey, Turkey Breast slices or cutlets (*no deli or sandwich meats)

Complex Carbs (nothing enriched, bleached or processed if possible)

Oatmeal (Old fashioned, Quick oats, Irish steal cut)
Sweet Potatoes, Yams
Beans (Black eyed, Pinto, Red, Kidney, Black)
Oat Bran Cereal, Grape nuts, Rye cereal, Multi grain hot cereal
Farin (Cream of wheat)
Whole Wheat frozen Bagels, Pitas
Whole wheat or Spinach Pasta, Whey Pasta
Rice (Brown, white, jasmin, basmiti, arborio, wild)
Potatoes (red, white, baking)

Fibrous Carbs

Green Leafy lettuce (red, green, romaine)
Broccoli
Asparagus
String Beans
Spinach
Bell Pepers (Green or Red)
Brussels Sprouts
Cauliflower
Cabbage
Celery
Cucumber
Carrots
Eggplant
Onions
Pumpkin
Garlic
Tomatoes
Zucchini

Fruit (If acceptable on diet)
bananas, oranges, apples, grapefruit, peaches, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, lemons or limes

Healthy Fats

Natural Style Peanut Butter
Olive oil, Safflower oil
Flaxseed oil
Fish Oil
Nuts (peanuts, almonds, walnuts)

Dairy

Eggs
Cottage cheese
Whole milk
Yogurt

And he also said to eat three healthy meals during the day, including a good breakfast. Skipping meals causes increased hunger and may lead to excessive snacking.


For Workout he said that Exercise about 30 to 60 minutes each day. If time is limited, exercise for several brief periods throughout the day for example, three 10-minute sessions rather than one 30-minute session. A good lifting program should consist of compounds lifts (squats, deadlift, rows, pullups, chinups, bench press, etc. Google compound lifts). Compound lifts are beneficial due to their utilization of several muscle groups at a time, their development of stabilizing muscles, and their translation into functionality into the real world. Often times, people will revolve their workout plan around upper body alone. THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. To get strong, be in shape, and lose weight, you must utilize compounds movements that will utilize upper body, back, and lower body on a regular basis. When you lift for your legs and back, your body creates the biggest hormone response that will promote muscle growth. I've heard it said that, essentially you some people squat for big arms.

All About Fat Lose
Video on Fat Lose
Burn Your Fat

[firmechicano831]

[QUOTE=xlxBigSexyxlx;4186030]low everything. I starve myself. Works great!


Before:





After:



I couldn't see the before picture.

[FallenWyvern]

I am starting to believe that people over think food choices and completely ignore volume and net calories. If you don't have a slight calorie deficit then it doesn't matter.

[calgarian]

low everything. I starve myself. Works great!


Before:





After:





This was a grueling 3 month process. All I did was 2000 sit ups a day, and after had a Muscle Tech shake. That is all.

fvcking liar.......stop posting porn websites links....

what-your-cyber-mate-may-really-look-like.jpg

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