the Unofficial "Ask the Jew" thread...

[scibble]

Is it common for ethnic jews (for lack of a better term) to look down or be prejudice against converts?

Not at all. The less observant "ethnic" Jews are much more liberal and accepting in general.

Orthodox Jews also are forbidden to mistreat or look down upon converts. However I think in actually practice some of them may have a little prejudice. Certainly, a well-entrenched orthodox jew with a prestigious family lineage would never marry a convert.

[scibble]

Why the name of God cannot be used by modern-day Jews, when one can find God's name (the Tetragramaton (sp?)) in the orgininal/older scripts? And how it became a custom by the majority of biblical scribes/copyist to basically ban His name and refuse to use it? For example, would you rather like to be known as "Scibble" or as the AR's MD? Which basically anyone could be categorized as you, as long as such person holds an MD degree.

to clarify, jews cannot SAY G-d's name. It is WRITTEN in scripture. See the diff? I have modern scriptures in which the tetragrammaton is written so i dont know that it's banned. But when reading aloud from scripture, another name is substituted, meaning 'my lord'. When speaking in a non-religious context, such as telling someone "G-d forbid!" or "let it be the will of G-d", people say "Ha-Shem", which means "the name" but has become an everyday name for G-d.

If you want ,you can call me Lord Scibble

[scibble]

scibbles back at it

ive been reading this thread with great interest my friend

lots of things i never knew

has changed my understanding of the jewish culture and specifically my attitude to the snobby, arrogant jews that run my town

cool. what more could a brotha ask?

[run_n_fool]

Not at all. The less observant "ethnic" Jews are much more liberal and accepting in general.

Orthodox Jews also are forbidden to mistreat or look down upon converts. However I think in actually practice some of them may have a little prejudice. Certainly, a well-entrenched orthodox jew with a prestigious family lineage would never marry a convert.

Thanks. I would think that to be the case based on my understanding of psychology.

I understand the Old Testament of the christian bible to be considered part or all of the Torah (depending on how one interprets "Torah"). In these books, there many apparent "exaggerations" such as Abraham and Moses living to several hundred years, etc.

How does Judiasm look upon those statements? Are they considered literally?

[scibble]

I think really orthodox Jews take those long lifetimes to be accurate numbers. Now there is a large body of writings/legends which make those exaggerations seem mundane by comparison; these are called Midrash. Eliezer apparently carried ten camels with his abdundant strength. Even devout jews will wonder about those but the attitude that is adopted is (not common in orthodox religion) to not question them but to maintain a healthy skepticism - may accept them as or as not literal

but anything in the torah....literal all the way

["Maximus"]

to clarify, jews cannot SAY G-d's name. It is WRITTEN in scripture. See the diff? I have modern scriptures in which the tetragrammaton is written so i dont know that it's banned. But when reading aloud from scripture, another name is substituted, meaning 'my lord'. When speaking in a non-religious context, such as telling someone "G-d forbid!" or "let it be the will of G-d", people say "Ha-Shem", which means "the name" but has become an everyday name for G-d.

If you want ,you can call me Lord Scibble

Lord Scibble!!
Thanks for your reply bro. Although I understand and agree with your answer, let me restate my question this way:

Why modern-day Jews cannot pronounce the Tetragrammaton? The Tetragrammaton is not the same as the sustition/surname "God". And you're right; some modern-day translations now use either the Tetragrammaton or the translatitated name of God [not the title "God"] as thought to be in the English and many other languages. I'm just curious to find out the "why" of not pronouncing or even writing his name, as some people from old refuse to do. I would love people to call me and know me by my name, not a substitute or surname ("title" name, like God) just because of someone came with an ideology about not using my name for some reason. Do you get my point? Sorry for the analogy, but I'm not a God nor would never try to be one.. pun intended!

Thanks "Lord scibble,"

[higherdesire]

Brotha scribb, correct me if I am wrong but isn;t the torah only the first five books of the Christian Old Testament? Not the entire group of books?

[JAYROD]

Why did your people kill Jesus?

i've always thought the romans were responsible for this. am i wrong?

[scibble]

Brotha scribb, correct me if I am wrong but isn;t the torah only the first five books of the Christian Old Testament? Not the entire group of books?

Torah is technically the what-you-said, but as it means 'teachings' is sometimes used loosely to refer to all of it.

The scriptures are referred to as TaNaK, an acronym:

T for Torah, first five books
N for Nevi'im (Prophets): joshua, shmuel, judges, daniel,etc etc
K for Ketuvim (Writings): song of songs, esther, ruth, ecclesiates, lamentations

[scibble]

i've always thought the romans were responsible for this. am i wrong?

if it occurred, then yes, that is my understanding

[scibble]

as thought to be in the English and many other languages. I'm just curious to find out the "why" of not pronouncing or even writing his name, as some people from old refuse to do. I would love people to call me and know me by my name, not a substitute or surname ("title" name, like God) just because of someone came with an ideology about not using my name for some reason. Do you get my point? Sorry for the analogy, but I'm not a God nor would never try to be one.. pun intended!

Thanks "Lord scibble,"

i think it's because G-d is all powerful and awesome and it profane to call by his name. often an analogy is made to a king. No one said "i want to ask you a favor King George", you might get your head cut off. You'd say 'if it please your majesty'. So one would think, would you show any less reverence for
G-d than what you'd show a human king? Certainly not!

Writing: the name of G-d when written is susceptible to being ripped up or tossed in the garbage. Such would be a great sacrilege. So an alternate name is written to avoid that possibility.

[scibble]

OK, answering the dude who wanted to know the holidays...

Preface: like i said, a really religious Jew is not going to pick up the phone when it rings during a holy day (if he or she has not turned the phones off) so calling is not such a terrible thing. Plus, Jews dont have any reason to expect or assume that you'll know when there holy day is anyway so they cannot reasonably become upset anyway. That said, keep in mind that our religion follows a lunar calendar. therefore, any holiday except for the sabbath falls on a different day every year. i cannot even say for example that chanukka is in November because it equally as often falls in december. you just gotta check a calendar or google it.

Here are the really holy times:

The first is every weekend, beginning friday at almost sundown until saturday some time after sundown: no driving, no cooking, no using electrical devices, no writing, no spending money or taking money. the sabbath.

Rosh HaShanna: tends to occur in September. its the Jewish new year and celebration of the creation of the world, with prayers for good things to occur in the new year.

Yom Kippur: there is no celebration here. it's a deadly serious day of complete fasting for about 24 hours, hours of prayer in the synagogue, and basically asking G-d not to off you for anything you might have done wrong in the past year. "i'm really sorry G-d, please keep me alive for this year, i promise to be a good guy!" this holiday is ten days after Rosh hashana

Succos: outside of israel, this is eight days. it starts five days after yom kippur. to remember how after we left egypt and wandered the dessert we lived in little huts and shacks. we appreciates how much we depend upon G-d s protection. so the jews, each family that is, constructs a little tiny shack. they are supposed to eat all the meals in the shack (sukkah). it's not required but preferable to even sleep there and study in it. if it's raining you can cheat and go inside the house. Now with these eight days, the first two days and the last two days and the really holy ones. the days in between, while still part of the holidays, allow some laxity including allowance to go to work and so on.

chanuka is a holiday but is not restrictive in any way, so you can bother people on those eight days anyway. in Nov or Dec. to remember the defense of the temple against the romans by a small group of bad ass jews who managed to fight off the superior forces.

purim: not restrictive. lots of jews get blasted on this day - i like tequila myself. people dress up like it's halloween and eat candy. this day remembers how an evil dude convinced the king in persia that the jews were plotting against him so he could get them all killed Nazi-style. what noone knew was, the kings hot wife was a jew (but she didnt act like one or talk about it). in the end, she trapped the bad guy and uncovered his lie to her husband and not only did the king say "forget it, let the jews alone, my bad." but also his wife convinced him to let the jews actually take revenge on all the people that planned to carry out the carnage. a reverse massacre ensued. this is around march.

pesach (passover): another eight day bonanza. first two days and last two days are super holy and restrictive. the middle days are not very restrictive. but all the eight days jew cannot eat any grain-fermented product including bread (rises by action of yeast), or bourbon, as examples. can only eat matza in place of bread. like huge tasteless salteen crackers. remembers how G-d gave ten plaques to the egyptians and then let the jews escape egypt. usually in april close to the time of Easter. (easter in spanish is Pascua (sp?). coincidence???

shavuous: holiday in which remembers torah given to moses on mt sinai. in temple times, also was celebration of first harvests and baskets of harvest were brought to the temple as offerings. this is late may or into june.

tisha b'av: one sad day of fasting and feeling like crap and praying all day. remembers destruction of both the first and the second temples. it's like a jewish friday the 13th "on steroids "... like bad things always seem to happen on that day. july or august.

that's the list. there are a couple of more minor days which we can leave out the list...

[Bojangles69]

Why are so many Jews overly concerned with making money? (or as my mom would say don't drop a penny by a Jew).

Is this a stereotype or do you notice a good deal of Jews being like this?
And if so, are they trying to compensate for something?
And is YES to above answer, what is it?

[FallenWyvern]

Scibble what is going on with the Jewish community. I am finding that Asians and Middle Easterners are 10x tighter than Jews!

[amcon]

good answers, and i hope you get back in line with you walk ... if there is any thing i can offer to you praying or such i will ... great job

[scibble]

Why are so many Jews overly concerned with making money? (or as my mom would say don't drop a penny by a Jew).

Stereotype typical of Jew-haters everywhere.

Scibble what is going on with the Jewish community. I am finding that Asians and Middle Easterners are 10x tighter than Jews!

Maybe in this country those groups are tight. Last time i heard sunnis and shiites are killing each other left and right.

Jews have a lot to fight over: religious jews tend to look down upon secular jews, who in turn look down on religious jews. also they have lots of disagreements over israeli policies. It's messed up because i certainly think jews should stick together better. They ARE very tight within their individual communities though. It's just between groups that they cant seem to appreciate each other.

[inky-e]

i'm wondering whether your having fun at my expense or serious. i see you as a person who is more intelligent than this question suggests; and given that the several times i've communicated with you recently you've ignored me leans me to think the former is true.
but to be fair, i'll answer it. The saying that Jews killed Jesus is one of the many stories propagated by Jew-haters since medieval times to rile up crowds of peasants so they could run amuck and kill families of Jews living in or near their towns. There is no truth to it, but is very effective in manipulating the hatred of people. Many of the latin countries, including Cuba, are still rife with this popular belief.

I'm sorry if you fel I've ignored you, I assure you it wasn't intentional. The question was tongue in cheek..in retrospect I should have put an LOL after it. I was under the impression that although the Romans actually nailed him to the cross...it was because Pontious Pilot had found him to have committed NO crime..but left it up to the people to decide who was getting crucified...Barrabus..or Jesus....the crowd at hand which I believe was comprised of primarily Jews , insisted it was Jesus to be crucified and freeing Barrabus. But I could be wrong being that I wasn't there. LOL...but if you really wanna get down to the bottom line...it was God's will that Jesus die...so.....if someone is responsible...it can be said that God is..

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, Scibble.

to clarify, jews cannot SAY G-d's name. It is WRITTEN in scripture. See the diff? I have modern scriptures in which the tetragrammaton is written so i dont know that it's banned. But when reading aloud from scripture, another name is substituted, meaning 'my lord'. When speaking in a non-religious context, such as telling someone "G-d forbid!" or "let it be the will of G-d", people say "Ha-Shem", which means "the name" but has become an everyday name for G-d.

If you want ,you can call me Lord Scibble

To add to this, wouldn't another explanation be that the Bible says not to take the Lord's Name in vain, so it is a matter of precaution? I'm not Jewish so I don't want to speak on your behalf, but I did read this in one Rabbi's book. You can confirm or deny. I just think it may help some people to understand why. Thanks.

[BuffedGuy]

Stereotype typical of Jew-haters everywhere.

Maybe in this country those groups are tight. Last time i heard sunnis and shiites are killing each other left and right.

Jews have a lot to fight over: religious jews tend to look down upon secular jews, who in turn look down on religious jews. also they have lots of disagreements over israeli policies. It's messed up because i certainly think jews should stick together better. They ARE very tight within their individual communities though. It's just between groups that they cant seem to appreciate each other.

I think it is a matter of small minorities tending to stick together, whereas when they make up the majority, then that group tends to break up into smaller groups. This is the case for Muslims definitely. For example, the Sunnis make up 85-90% of the Muslims, but we're highly disorganized. Meanwhile, the Shi'ites make up 10-15% but are highly organized/unified. But go to Iran itself and they are highly disorganized/divisive. So I think it's about minorities knowing they have to stick together. Wallahu Aalim.

[scibble]

I'm sorry if you fel I've ignored you, I assure you it wasn't intentional. The question was tongue in cheek..in retrospect I should have put an LOL after it. I was under the impression that although the Romans actually nailed him to the cross...it was because Pontious Pilot had found him to have committed NO crime..but left it up to the people to decide who was getting crucified...Barrabus..or Jesus....the crowd at hand which I believe was comprised of primarily Jews , insisted it was Jesus to be crucified and freeing Barrabus. But I could be wrong being that I wasn't there. LOL...but if you really wanna get down to the bottom line...it was God's will that Jesus die...so.....if someone is responsible...it can be said that God is..

thanks. i'll go with g-d is responsible

Peace be unto you, Scibble.

To add to this, wouldn't another explanation be that the Bible says not to take the Lord's Name in vain, so it is a matter of precaution? I'm not Jewish so I don't want to speak on your behalf, but I did read this in one Rabbi's book. You can confirm or deny. I just think it may help some people to understand why. Thanks.

valid point

I think it is a matter of small minorities tending to stick together, whereas when they make up the majority, then that group tends to break up into smaller groups. This is the case for Muslims definitely. For example, the Sunnis make up 85-90% of the Muslims, but we're highly disorganized. Meanwhile, the Shi'ites make up 10-15% but are highly organized/unified. But go to Iran itself and they are highly disorganized/divisive. So I think it's about minorities knowing they have to stick together. Wallahu Aalim.

another valid point

[Fat Guy]

Scibble I want to ask a question but let me give you some perspective to my question…

I am an atheist who finds all religions very difficult to follow and generally tends to think that religion in general is just another way of social control generated by some form of oligarchy. Many religious groups are Zionist and believe it is god’s will for the actions (political or social) they take let it be right or wrong. To me Zionism is similar to the concept of Manifest Destiny and the American Indian in that it was a religious tool used to take control and govern over lands and people.

With that being said, I would like to know if all Jews are Zionist and what your thoughts on Zionism are? I am not trying to be inflammatory and I know this a sensitive subject with the current issues going on in the Israel.

Thanks for your response.

[scibble]

Scibble I want to ask a question but let me give you some perspective to my question…

I am an atheist who finds all religions very difficult to follow and generally tends to think that religion in general is just another way of social control generated by some form of oligarchy. Many religious groups are Zionist and believe it is god’s will for the actions (political or social) they take let it be right or wrong. To me Zionism is similar to the concept of Manifest Destiny and the American Indian in that it was a religious tool used to take control and govern over lands and people.

With that being said, I would like to know if all Jews are Zionist and what your thoughts on Zionism are? I am not trying to be inflammatory and I know this a sensitive subject with the current issues going on in the Israel.

Thanks for your response.

There are plenty of Jews who are anti-zionist which can be considered the extreme end of anti-israel. i personally feel the jews have claim to the land. they had their kingdom there a couple thousand years ago and were kicked out by multiple groups that had superior armies. so for someone to disagree that this is not their land they are basically saying either:

(a) the whole history of the jews in the land israel/palestine is made up and they never controlled that territory, or
(b) if you take someone's land away and wait two thousand years, then there's some kind of statute of limitations and they lose to whoever has it now. they are SOL cause they waited too long.
(c) the people who call themselves jews are not related to the original semites of the land.

i think all three ideas are ridiculous, without basis, and promulgated by anti-jew hateful peoples with their own agendas. read josephus who wrote under the auspices of the romans. the history of the jews in the land is well documented. rabbis have been keeping detailed genealogies some of which go to at least medieval times; the migration of jews from that land throughout europe is also well documented.

but many jews are anti-zionist because they dont want to inflame the world against them. even in my most religious observance i am really kind of agnostic; i am a utilitarian in my approach to religion. it serves purpose for families. read one of my posts above where i go into that.

you may like to read a book i just finished which devleops your views: The Sacred Canopy: elements of a sociological theory of religion. it's a little difficult but a good read.

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, Scibble.

There are plenty of Jews who are anti-zionist which can be considered the extreme end of anti-israel. i personally feel the jews have claim to the land. they had their kingdom there a couple thousand years ago and were kicked out by multiple groups that had superior armies. so for someone to disagree that this is not their land they are basically saying either:

(a) the whole history of the jews in the land israel/palestine is made up and they never controlled that territory, or
(b) if you take someone's land away and wait two thousand years, then there's some kind of statute of limitations and they lose to whoever has it now. they are SOL cause they waited too long.
(c) the people who call themselves jews are not related to the original semites of the land.

The weakness in this argument is as follows: The Hebrew Israelites themselves conquered the ancestors of Arabs, and in the most brutal of ways.

"Somewhere around 12,000 years ago, ancestors of what we now call Arabs began domesticating wild, sheep, oxen and goats in the foothills of Iraq, Iran, and Turkey...Around 10,000 years ago, ancestors of Arabs built the city of Jericho. Jericho is considered the first continuously inhabited city on earth...Jericho is located in what is now called the West Bank, part of the Occupied Territories [i.e. Occupied Palestine]"

(Arabs and Israel For Beginners, by Ron David, pp.16-17)

We read further:

"The Hebrews struck first at Jericho, then 'put the Canaanites to the sword' and Canaanite culture to the torch."

(Arabs and Israel For Beginners, by Ron David, p.33)

Therefore if you argue that the Jews have a right to the land because they were there first, I say: no, the ancestors of the Arabs were there first.

Then in point (b) you make it sound as if the Arabs are the ones who kicked the Jews out of Palestine, which is false. It was a third party.

As for (c), then this is definitely true. Along these lines, why does a man from Venezuela who converts to Judaism have more of a right to "return" to Israel than a Palestinian whose ancestors have lived on the land for thousands of years, who is denied the Right of Return by Israel?

So it can be summarized as follows: the ancestors of the Arabs lived there before the Hebrew Israelites. The Hebrew Israelites slaughtered and ruthlessly conquered them, and then they themselves were conquered and broken up by the Assyrians, Babylonians, etc. You argue that the Jews should have a right to the land since they were wrongfully conquered, yet I say that the Arabs were wrongfully conquered by the Hebrew Israelites.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[scibble]

Peace be unto you, Scibble.



The weakness in this argument is as follows: The Hebrew Israelites themselves conquered the ancestors of Arabs, and in the most brutal of ways.

"Somewhere around 12,000 years ago, ancestors of what we now call Arabs began domesticating wild, sheep, oxen and goats in the foothills of Iraq, Iran, and Turkey...Around 10,000 years ago, ancestors of Arabs built the city of Jericho. Jericho is considered the first continuously inhabited city on earth...Jericho is located in what is now called the West Bank, part of the Occupied Territories [i.e. Occupied Palestine]"

(Arabs and Israel For Beginners, by Ron David, pp.16-17)

We read further:

"The Hebrews struck first at Jericho, then 'put the Canaanites to the sword' and Canaanite culture to the torch."

(Arabs and Israel For Beginners, by Ron David, p.33)

Therefore if you argue that the Jews have a right to the land because they were there first, I say: no, the ancestors of the Arabs were there first.

Then in point (b) you make it sound as if the Arabs are the ones who kicked the Jews out of Palestine, which is false. It was a third party.

As for (c), then this is definitely true. Along these lines, why does a man from Venezuela who converts to Judaism have more of a right to "return" to Israel than a Palestinian whose ancestors have lived on the land for thousands of years, who is denied the Right of Return by Israel?

So it can be summarized as follows: the ancestors of the Arabs lived there before the Hebrew Israelites. The Hebrew Israelites slaughtered and ruthlessly conquered them, and then they themselves were conquered and broken up by the Assyrians, Babylonians, etc. You argue that the Jews should have a right to the land since they were wrongfully conquered, yet I say that the Arabs were wrongfully conquered by the Hebrew Israelites.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

i agree with some of your points. first (not in order) a convert does not have such a right in terms of taking land. but converts did not take the land. they are simply deemed to have a right to become citizens, just as there are many arab citizens of israel. converts are a small percent of jews.

second, i do not think i alluded in any way that arabs kicked out the jews. i never said this. anyway there were no arabs back then. there were many semitic tribes. people who kicked out or conquered the jews include the greeks, the babylonians, the persians, and the romans, but who exiled them is not really at all an issue here.

third, yes, the jews "brutally" killed tribes in the area. EVERY body brutally killed other tribes! that was the way of the ancient world. tell me a tribe or kingdom in the ancient world that was not involved in warfare! they used swords. i mean, you make some points here but i do not see how they are relevant.

the ONE point you make which has some relevance is that the jews were not the first in the land. this is true. there were semitic tribes inhabiting the land. and tribes routinely fought over the land. so if a group would now come and show that they are specifically descended from canaanit tribe, then i would agree they have a claim.

now please, as I stated previously, i do not wish this to be a thread arguing palestine. we can start another thread and we can there enjoy our interesting and civil discussion there. let's leave this thread please to answer questions about judaism...

i enjoy discussing the issue of israel palestine in such case and hope that we can continue to keep it friendly and impersonal. i know sometimes that is a challenge because we have emotions about the issue. i appreciate your interest.

[BuffedGuy]

Peace be unto you, Scibble.

I agree with you that we should just agree to disagree, and not let the thread dissolve into chaos. I apologize if I offended you. And I agree with your decision to leave the thread about Judaism. An Israeli/Palestinian thread will just descend into chaos and nobody will learn anything. You seem to have a lot of knowledge about Judaism and we can really benefit from it, God-Willing.

OK, let me ask you a question to divert the topic, or rather to get back ON topic: Can you give a summary of what Judaism is? Like let's say you had to write a blurb about Judaism: what would it be? Like in one paragraph. Hope that makes sense. (I was surprised nobody asked that about Islam in my thread.)

Take care.

In the Care of the Lord,
-Saladin.

[scibble]

hmmm...that is a good question. when i am back home tonight i will attempt something, though of course, that is a daunting task...

[scibble]

OK, I have put thought into the above question. I began to formulate various responses. Finally, though it may seem a cop out, i do not see myself as worthy of such an enormous task.

To take such a complex subject and try to define it in an extremely concise fashion would seem to me to end up revealing more about the writer than it would about the subject matter. And I see that as producing more harm than good. So while it is a noble challenge, I feel I had best stick to answering more pointed/specific questions.

Salam Alekum

[KatsMeow]

I don't think there are many Jews down here in florida

[Fat Guy]

I don't think there are many Jews down here in florida

Was that sarcasm? Are you kidding? There is a whole Jewish community and they all over 65 years of age… South & West Palm Beach is where old Jews go to retire…

[scibble]

Was that sarcasm? Are you kidding? There is a whole Jewish community and they all over 65 years of age… South & West Palm Beach is where old Jews go to retire…

it was "sarcasm". everyone's a comedian.

[Deltasaurus]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...=1#post4369087
updated progress what do u think?

[BuffedGuy]

Was that sarcasm? Are you kidding? There is a whole Jewish community and they all over 65 years of age… South & West Palm Beach is where old Jews go to retire…

It's the law, according to Seinfeld.

[BuffedGuy]

What is the Jewish belief with regards to intercession, i.e. praying to saints and pious people who have passed away?

Thanks.

[DSM4Life]

If this guy wasn't Jewish would he have successfully made the move ?

[BuffedGuy]

If this guy wasn't Jewish would he have successfully made the move ?

What do you mean by that?

[*El Diablo*]

Shalom Scibble... from a brother..