Anyone else feel like a revolution is on the way?

[NewMuscle83]

"Owners of capital will stimulate the working class to buy more and more expensive goods, houses and technology, pushing them to take more and more expensive credits, until their debt becomes unbearable. The unpaid debt will lead to bankruptcy of banks, which will have to be nationalized, and the State will have to take the road which will eventually lead to communism"

Karl Marx, Das Kapital, 1867

[Brown Ninja]

I think we are in the middle of one. The Socialist States of America

[*RAGE*]

I dont know about all that but I am buying all the ammo that i can get my hands on...

[amcon]

ya i think we will be close to one... it is just freaking crazy how the gov has no accountability with our money and tax more in stead of fixing the holes and spending.

[Bojangles69]

Strap some dynamite to your chest and I promise Ill be right behind you..

[Brown Ninja]

My favorite.part is the lack of accontability with the bail out funds. It's ****ing criminal

[NewMuscle83]

My favorite.part is the lack of accontability with the bail out funds. It's ****ing criminal

that would never happen in a socialist economy. it is a disgrace, but the people are to blame. we just sit back and let our governments rape us in every aspect (bailout funds, wars, patriot act...etc.)

[Chode Logan]

I hope so, I will become Mel Gibson from the Road warrior.

[Voice of Reason]

Nothing going on here is by ignorance of the government, cmon ... Plans of world domination, a 1 world power have been set into motion years ago by those above reach and think tanks planning out the future of the people of Earths direction.

*takes off tin foil cap, not really...

http://www.infowars.com

[Chode Logan]

Nothing going on here is by ignorance of the government, cmon ... Plans of world domination, a 1 world power have been set into motion years ago by those above reach and think tanks planning out the future of the people of Earths direction.

*takes off tin foil cap, not really...

I agree 100% with this.

[T_Own]

not to communism, just changes.

marx was a little extreme if you couldn't tell, and his ideas were usually very narcissistic, so i don't think it will get that out of hand. more a long the lines of fight club, where all the credit companies bankrupt and everyones debt is cleared. there isn't the extreme of rich and poor in the country to turn to communism and as long as there is a middle class that makes up a large part of the people, it won't be communism that gets us out of this

[NewMuscle83]

since when did communism become an "out of hand" situation?

[Sir Lifts-a-lot]

I'm just waiting for my old friend Marshall Law to kick in... 'Gonna be some good times then!

[T_Own]

since when did communism become an "out of hand" situation?

uhh are you serious?

how about where has it been successful? thats a much shorter answer

[NewMuscle83]

communism was never truly implemented for it to be successful. The problem is "revolutionaries" always wanna go from step 1 to 10 in one swift move. That's why it doesn't work. Even Marx himself said it was necessary for us to go through a phase of capitalism in order to proceed and eventually arrive at communism and then hopefully anarchy. In any case, he explains how just like the feudalist system destroyed itself and was therefore replaced by capitalism, so will capitalism, and then it will go through a socialist phase before it continues further. We're at a point where people are realizing the flaws (and evils) of capitalism, the question is, is it enough for a revolution, or are we gonna suffer a little more? Maybe it won't even be a revolution, maybe a sneaky president will smoothly transfer us there..who knows! All I know is a system like capitalism cannot last without regulation of the free market, otherwise, we'll face inflation and recessions.

[Brown Ninja]

You are some doom and gloom bastards!

[Brown Ninja]

Can anyone at this point really make a valid argument that we live in a free market economy that is strictly capitalism?

[T_Own]

communism was never truly implemented for it to be successful. The problem is "revolutionaries" always wanna go from step 1 to 10 in one swift move. That's why it doesn't work. Even Marx himself said it was necessary for us to go through a phase of capitalism in order to proceed and eventually arrive at communism and then hopefully anarchy. In any case, he explains how just like the feudalist system destroyed itself and was therefore replaced by capitalism, so will capitalism, and then it will go through a socialist phase before it continues further. We're at a point where people are realizing the flaws (and evils) of capitalism, the question is, is it enough for a revolution, or are we gonna suffer a little more? Maybe it won't even be a revolution, maybe a sneaky president will smoothly transfer us there..who knows! All I know is a system like capitalism cannot last without regulation of the free market, otherwise, we'll face inflation and recessions.

are you just quoting him or are you serious?

we face inflation and recessions and have for a long time. still haven't resorted to communism

[Chode Logan]

No system anywhere has worked properly, or been truly installed in the manner it's claimed to be.

[NewMuscle83]

are you just quoting him or are you serious?

we face inflation and recessions and have for a long time. still haven't resorted to communism

And that is why I said "is this enough to revolt, or do we continue some more?"

And yes, I am serious (which happens to be a quote also).

[NewMuscle83]

No system anywhere has worked properly, or been truly installed in the manner it's claimed to be.

You're right, no system works perfectly, but some are better than others.

Take sweden, money is so devalued over there, the quality of life is so much better. That's the point of marxism. We devalue money and possession to the point where we stop spending our lives accruing more property (and debt) and start focusing on improving the quality of life and advancing our existence.

I'm too tired to explain any further, I'm going to bed. But yeah...whatever.

[IM708]

What an idiotic discussion.... Btw fitting avvy

[Ernst]

I like some of your rhetoric 48, but if you think for a moment the sheeple are close to ready to rise up you're deluded. As long as they can wash down little pills with imported bottled water to convince themselves that they are happy driving through traffic in their SUV on the way to a soul crushing underpaid job where they make just enough to pay off some of their credit cards so they can buy more stuff... not gonna happen.

[Voland]

revolutions rock.

[RuhlFreak55]

i will blow up EVERYTHING to keep communism from happening.....now anarchy....fine....then i'll build my own empire and actually run an appropriate government. Let the Ruhlvelution begin

[Kratos]

Marx wrote: "We have seen... that the first step in the revolution by the working class is to raise the proletariat to the position of the ruling class, to establish democracy. The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest by degrees all capital from the bourgeoisie; to centralize all of instruments of production in the hands of the state."

hmmm, economic stimulus demanded by the public...smart man that Marx.

They'll always be more factory workers than management...not good for management if the workers get an equal vote in company policy. See the problem?

[C-MaN]

man that's crazy. We were just talking about this in my political philosophy class the other day. I'm more of an Anarchist in theory than a communist when it comes down to it. But the further the separation of classes becomes more apparent to the masses the more likely there will be a reaction by the people to unite as one.

[amcon]

we originally broke away from the mother land cause... "no taxation with out representation"

...now we are getting taxed with any benfit!!!

the time is close .... bush doubled our debt(he at least had some war he wanted) noboma will quad-drupple it in the next two years!!!

and what do we get for it?

[paulzane]

It is not communism that is the most worrying revolution ....... it is Islamification ..... just look at what is happening in the UK and Europe!!!

[NewMuscle83]

I like some of your rhetoric 48, but if you think for a moment the sheeple are close to ready to rise up you're deluded. As long as they can wash down little pills with imported bottled water to convince themselves that they are happy driving through traffic in their SUV on the way to a soul crushing underpaid job where they make just enough to pay off some of their credit cards so they can buy more stuff... not gonna happen.

I'm afraid you are correct my friend..

[NewMuscle83]

It is not communism that is the most worrying revolution ....... it is Islamification ..... just look at what is happening in the UK and Europe!!!

Congrats. This is the most retarded comment in the thread.

[Kratos]

I think you're misundersanding the revolution. It's the continued demanding of more social benifits and gvt intervention to increase the quality of life for the working public without worry as how to pay for it. Bigger gvt and social benifits, deficit spending and taxation to the point of creating a homogenious society from an economic perspective. It's happening through the election process do to shear numbers and equal voting regardless of education or tax contribution. Free healthcare...sure, make the rich pay for it...not enough rich...take out a loan. Not enough jobs? Have the gvmt hire some people. It's a problem and the consequences will be devistating.

[Panzerfaust80]

IMHO we need a strong National Socialist party to emerge within the US sans the racists doctrines of the former infamous NSDAP. Production was at an all-time high, national pride was strong, foreign policy was aggressive and henceforth the economic benefits were outstanding.

But then again we're a Democracy. =(

[NewMuscle83]

I think you're misundersanding the revolution. It's the continued demanding of more social benifits and gvt intervention to increase the quality of life for the working public without worry as how to pay for it. Bigger gvt and social benifits, deficit spending and taxation to the point of creating a homogenious society from an economic perspective. It's happening through the election process do to shear numbers and equal voting regardless of education or tax contribution. Free healthcare...sure, make the rich pay for it...not enough rich...take out a loan. Not enough jobs? Have the gvmt hire some people. It's a problem and the consequences will be devistating.

that is one perspective, but its not exactly how it works (or supposed to work)

Take a real life example of life in the US. Terrible healthcare, expensive higher education. However; the US is one of the more wealthy nations in the world, with a solid tax system. The money generated in taxes is not quite making its way back to the public the way it supposed to. I'm actually not opposed to taxation as long as the normal people get some benefit back (i.e. better health care, free education) instead, we are spending money on bullshit wars, and over build-up of weapons and nuclear bombs. That same money should be spent on us here at home, funding medical research, and improving quality of life.

Believe me, if the US didn't wage so many wars, we would never need the mass amount of weaponry we have. No one will want to attack us if we're minding our own business and actually doing things to better humanity.

[Kratos]

that is one perspective, but its not exactly how it works (or supposed to work)

Take a real life example of life in the US. Terrible healthcare, expensive higher education. However; the US is one of the more wealthy nations in the world, with a solid tax system. The money generated in taxes is not quite making its way back to the public the way it supposed to. I'm actually not opposed to taxation as long as the normal people get some benefit back (i.e. better health care, free education) instead, we are spending money on bullshit wars, and over build-up of weapons and nuclear bombs. That same money should be spent on us here at home, funding medical research, and improving quality of life.

Believe me, if the US didn't wage so many wars, we would never need the mass amount of weaponry we have. No one will want to attack us if we're minding our own business and actually doing things to better humanity.

You aren't incorrect at all.
However, the revoloution marx spoke of is the road to socialism through free election. He was trying to create a system superior to socialism through intelligent design. Not that I agree with his design. I think perfection would be if we could have a non-corrupt ruling class and free market...but that's beyond wishful thinking. The corruptable will always be corrupt and act on their self serving motives.

[NewMuscle83]

You aren't incorrect at all.
However, the revoloution marx spoke of is the road to socialism through free election. He was trying to create a system superior to socialism through intelligent design. Not that I agree with his design. I think perfection would be if we could have a non-corrupt ruling class and free market...but that's beyond wishful thinking. The corruptable will always be corrupt and act on their self serving motives.

And that is the unfortunate truth of humanity. However, while absolute Anarchy is a long, if not unreachable, ways away, we could perhaps begin by taking baby steps towards better living conditions. Beginning with the credit industries fueling consumerism making us spend our lives seeking more and more possessions while acquiring more and more debt. I don't know what is the best way to regulate the lending industry in order to prevent corruption and exploitation, as I am not an economist, nor a political scientist, but I do know that we, as a public, are responsible for some of those destructive actions that are causing our economy to be in the shape it is in now, and in turn, allowing the big banks to take advantage of us.

I, for example, have been on a mission to rid myself of all/most possessions, and therefore, not be enslaved to things I own. That means no debt also. At which point, I'll be free to pursue a life that will include improving myself physically, and mentally, without worrying about how expensive my car is, and how big my house is. Only then will I realize the true potential of my capabalities as an individual.

[DSM4Life]

[West Coast All Star]

Did you all know that Gorbachev lives in California and has so for quite a while. In his book, Perestroika, he tells it all. The commies will lull the world to sleep and in to thinking that communism is dead only to rise up and destroy the U.S. from within. It's all there. Hold on to God and guns. It will only get worse from here.

[Panzerfaust80]

The US -IS- being destroyed from the inside out... whos destroying it? Politicians. They should all burn in hell. Most corrupt people on the planet.

Obviously Im stating something that everyone already knows anyway but whatever.

[J-Dogg]

Bah you are all looking too far into it.

the economy was doing so great because democrats wanted the working class to all own there own home, own cars and live off credit.

A lot of the working class is just bad with money, they desire to live outside of their means. Housing acts allowed first time home purchasers to buy homes TOO easy with too little money down. If you can't save up a down payment, you probably should not own a house.

It really just comes down to irresponsible lenders and it has a trickle effect. People don't have credit to stimulate the economy.

A lot of it stems from the real estate market. Everyone was buying, selling, and doing something with property but it's not for everyone. It's common now days for people to owe more on their homes, than the home is worth. I've met with 3 customers this week that are considering just walking away and letting the bank have the home. The modifications I can do to their homes, after paying me, won't let them sell it for a profit.

I have 2 homes I'm considering letting go also, the equity is dropping on them every year. I've only had them 3 years, so the principal of the home is hardly touched. I own thousands in property taxes.

If I walk away, sure, my credit takes a hit. But I save 8k in property taxes, can miss 3 months in mortgages. All in all, I walk away with 10k in my pocket and I can buy the house back, or another house cheaper in the next 5 years. Property values in my area will drop for at least 5 years.

I can buy forclosed homes for 30-60k and they are decent homes in my area, and the bank looses money on each one. I could let mine foreclose, and buy them back cheaper.

Now you know why banks need a bail out.