DHT impotence and cia/levitra

**Gears** · 03-23-2009, 08:40 PM

I was wondering if these drugs counter-acted the effects that DHT blockers like duta have on getting my guy up. Also, will it boost libido, and which would be better (cia or levitra)? I am on cycle if anyone is wondering.

**Kratos** · 03-23-2009, 09:29 PM

why would you need anything to help get it up if you're on test regardless of using a DHT blocker?

**Kratos** · 03-23-2009, 09:31 PM

I'm ready to rupture my weiner here from getting wood too often. And it looks great when you pop a stiffy at the copy machine. Yes, I'm on duta.

**Polska** · 03-23-2009, 10:49 PM

cia/levitra do nothing for libido. they help you get hard faster and keep it up for longer but the libido has to be there to begin with for them to work

**Gears** · 03-24-2009, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by Kratos

why would you need anything to help get it up if you're on test regardless of using a DHT blocker?

Thats a good question... I would like to know..

**Gears** · 03-24-2009, 07:18 AM

This is something that has happened recently, it's the exact same cycle as last time and I didn't have any issues... I seriously think It's due to an enlarged prostate. I'm not mpb prone, so the DHT blocker is being used for prostate swelling. I did notice a drop in strength with it, but does anyone know if it will affect mass at all?

**Angel of death** · 03-24-2009, 10:31 AM

DHT is responsible for sexual function and strength in the muscle. It is a VITAL hormone for bodybuilders. When I was on propecia I was weaker, softer, and had a lot more trouble getting it up. You basically need to pick, body or hair.

**Kratos** · 03-24-2009, 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Angel of death

DHT is responsible for sexual function and strength in the muscle. It is a VITAL hormone for bodybuilders. When I was on propecia I was weaker, softer, and had a lot more trouble getting it up. You basically need to pick, body or hair.

I don't agree it's that important.

these are the results from the fda clinical study
Erectile dysfunction (ED) or impotence -- up to 4.7 percent of people vs 3% for placebo
A decreased libido (sex drive) -- up to 3 percent of people vs 2% for placebo
Abnormal ejaculation, including a decreased ejaculate amount -- up to 1.4 percent of people vs less than 1%

That's in old men with a mean age of 66 years old. They have low test and high SHBG, and most of them can still get it up. Yeah it can decrease sex drive but synthetic test should more than fill the DHT gap. You should want to hump like a wild animal on a high dose of test.

Something else could be out of wack OP...are you taking anything to keep estro down? What compounds are in your cycle?

As for DHT's importance in muscle growth and hardness...as shitty a bang for your sides as any hormone goes. You don't need it, it's steroid board urban legend.

**Angel of death** · 03-24-2009, 11:06 AM

I don't know much about the studies but I know I've also seen studies supporting that DHT is very important for muscle hardness and for strength. Think about it...you take the DHT drugs like winstrol and masteron and you get stronger and harder then ever.

I'm basing my response solely on experience. I went on propecia for a year, by the end of the year it was almost impossible to get an erection and I wasn't seeing gains in the gym like I used to. Also, my muscles were softer then usual.
I got off fin and a few months later I started getting my sex drive back and what do you know...I was getting stronger in the gym and my muscles were hard as a rock.

I'm just basing it on my experience. I believe DHT is very very important in bodybuilding.

**Gears** · 03-24-2009, 11:12 AM

Angel, I'm not MPB prone, i'm actually using it for porstate enlargement... I have to urinate all the time even when its not much and have been having "issues" lately so I think I have BPH. Do you think Saw Palmetto would be a better alternative?

Kratos, my cycle looks like this
750mg/Test-e/wk
700mg/Tren -A/wk
HCG 500IU/wk
A-dex .25mg e3d
Im also taking ginseng/B6 for prolactin, and I have bromo on hand, but I don't think thats the issue.

I probably wouldn't take an AI, but im worried about the HCG elevating my estrogen levels to where it will become a problem, do you think I should try it without? For some reason or another I always see a huge decrease in gains with even a small amount of an AI.

Also, I was wondering how an alpha blocker would affect DHT orals like winny or proviron ? Would it make them useless?

**Gears** · 03-24-2009, 11:13 AM

Btw, I want to thank you for the responses so far.

**Angel of death** · 03-24-2009, 11:16 AM

Yeah bro, I mean unless your prostate is in real bad shape and a doctor said you should be on the duta I would just use some saw palmetto, that shit does work pretty good, and it shouldn't mess with your dick as much. DUTA is real powerful

**Gears** · 03-24-2009, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by Angel of death

Yeah bro, I mean unless your prostate is in real bad shape and a doctor said you should be on the duta I would just use some saw palmetto, that shit does work pretty good, and it shouldn't mess with your dick as much. DUTA is real powerful

I'll probably try that, it just sucks i've already taken duta and it has a freaking 5 week half-life.....

**Kratos** · 03-24-2009, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Gears

Angel, I'm not MPB prone, i'm actually using it for porstate enlargement... I have to urinate all the time even when its not much and have been having "issues" lately so I think I have BPH. Do you think Saw Palmetto would be a better alternative?

Kratos, my cycle looks like this
750mg/Test-e/wk
700mg/Tren -A/wk
HCG 500IU/wk
A-dex .25mg e3d
Im also taking ginseng/B6 for prolactin, and I have bromo on hand, but I don't think thats the issue.

I probably wouldn't take an AI, but im worried about the HCG elevating my estrogen levels to where it will become a problem, do you think I should try it without? For some reason or another I always see a huge decrease in gains with even a small amount of an AI.

Also, I was wondering how an alpha blocker would affect DHT orals like winny or proviron? Would it make them useless?

I think you've either got prolactin or estro problems
HCG can make estro go through the roof
B6 is totally useless against prolactin and you're on a fair amount of tren

even if the 5AR blocker is knocking out 90% of the DHT, you're on 750mg of test. You should be ready to hump the dog. 10% of the usual dht in 750mg is a lot more than 10% of the DHT in what your nuts are making.

I wouldn't expect to see any reduction in prostate size on that cycle just an FYI.

No, 5AR enzyme has no effect on winny or other derivations.

**Kratos** · 03-24-2009, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by Angel of death

I don't know much about the studies but I know I've also seen studies supporting that DHT is very important for muscle hardness and for strength. Think about it...you take the DHT drugs like winstrol and masteron and you get stronger and harder then ever.

I'm basing my response solely on experience. I went on propecia for a year, by the end of the year it was almost impossible to get an erection and I wasn't seeing gains in the gym like I used to. Also, my muscles were softer then usual.
I got off fin and a few months later I started getting my sex drive back and what do you know...I was getting stronger in the gym and my muscles were hard as a rock.

I'm just basing it on my experience. I believe DHT is very very important in bodybuilding.

Well, I'm not going to say others haven't reported similar results in reducing their DHT. But, this is far from a scientific method and contrary to everything we know about the hormone at this time. The big problem is 3a-HSD, it deactivates DHT. Ever wonder why proviron is not very anabolic at all? It acts as a substrate for 3a-HSD and is largely deactivated before it hits the muscle. Winstrol and masteron may be derived from DHT but they aren't nearly as prone to deactivation by 3a-HSD in muscle tissue.

I'm not saying we know everything about DHT or muscle yet, what I'm stating are common opinions based on everything we know at this time. You'll have a chance to confirm your suspicions/prove me wrong when this study comes out. It should end the debate.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00493987
I'm excited to see the results, even if it leaves egg on my face.

**Angel of death** · 03-24-2009, 01:18 PM

Sounds good, I'll look forward to that study coming out.

I just basically have my own theories on DHT mainly because of the drug "propecia" which we all know lowers it.
check out www.propeciasideeffects.com I think thats the site, if you read up on some of these guys on the forums you will see A LOT of people are having significant problems with this drug. All the drug does is lower DHT, however not everybody gets so negatively effected by it, so its pretty strange. Interesting read though.

**Polska** · 03-24-2009, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

Well, I'm not going to say others haven't reported similar results in reducing their DHT. But, this is far from a scientific method and contrary to everything we know about the hormone at this time. The big problem is 3a-HSD, it deactivates DHT. Ever wonder why proviron is not very anabolic at all? It acts as a substrate for 3a-HSD and is largely deactivated before it hits the muscle. Winstrol and masteron may be derived from DHT but they aren't nearly as prone to deactivation by 3a-HSD in muscle tissue.

I'm not saying we know everything about DHT or muscle yet, what I'm stating are common opinions based on everything we know at this time. You'll have a chance to confirm your suspicions/prove me wrong when this study comes out. It should end the debate.
http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00493987
I'm excited to see the results, even if it leaves egg on my face.

Kudos for that. I am one of those guys scared of taking any DHT blockers for fear of the side effects. Curious to see the results of that study

**Kratos** · 03-24-2009, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Angel of death

Sounds good, I'll look forward to that study coming out.

I just basically have my own theories on DHT mainly because of the drug "propecia" which we all know lowers it.
check out www.propeciasideeffects.com I think thats the site, if you read up on some of these guys on the forums you will see A LOT of people are having significant problems with this drug. All the drug does is lower DHT, however not everybody gets so negatively effected by it, so its pretty strange. Interesting read though.

I wouldn't put too much stock in that info.
That web site and forum is pretty well put together for 1000 registered users and no sponsors.
I would suspect they it's designed to drum up business for a class action lawsuit.
Of the credible clinical data, things look pretty good. It's a drug that's been approved for use in the US since 1992. A huge number of scripts have been filled for it worldwide.
Long-term suppression of DHT does not appear to be harmful. This is based on extensive research, dating back to 1974, of men born with a deficiency of 5-alpha reductase.

**Gears** · 03-24-2009, 03:19 PM

Hmmm, for now I might just stick with saw palmetto and add proviron to my cycle, do you think that would clear up any problems?

**Angel of death** · 03-24-2009, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

I wouldn't put too much stock in that info.
That web site and forum is pretty well put together for 1000 registered users and no sponsors.
I would suspect they it's designed to drum up business for a class action lawsuit.
Of the credible clinical data, things look pretty good. It's a drug that's been approved for use in the US since 1992. A huge number of scripts have been filled for it worldwide.
Long-term suppression of DHT does not appear to be harmful. This is based on extensive research, dating back to 1974, of men born with a deficiency of 5-alpha reductase.

Dude, trust me, the people who post on that site have SERIOUS problems. My hair has been thinning and as a result for the past two years I've been all over these hair loss forums and I've been through a lot myself on propecia. Some people react fine, some are left with serious, sometimes permanent problems from this drug. You don't have to believe me, but I would bet my life on it that the people on that forum are telling the god-honest truth about their struggles.

**Angel of death** · 03-24-2009, 04:38 PM

And by the way, perhaps it is built to get a lawsuit going, I wouldn't doubt it, but WITH REASON. A lot of people suffer from this drug. (Don't get me wrong, a lot of people love it and it works great for them too). I cannot explain as to why its so devestating for some people, but it is.

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