huge vs fast....

**Nicotine** · 09-11-2009, 05:38 PM

so, i was reading that thread about the kids in the gym who fought, and the bigger kid got his ass handed to him.

and, it reminded me of a few nights ago - me and some friends were having a conversation about size/speed.

so, i asked my friends: who would you rather fight.

arnold in his prime

bruce lee in his prime.

2 friends said bruce, as arnold was huge.

me and my friend dave both agreed, we'd fight arnold. although bruce was tiny, he was ripped, fast, and his strength was incredible.

so. who would anyone here wanna fight? bruce or arnold

**Noles12** · 09-11-2009, 05:41 PM

I would fight arnold because he didnt train in fighting. He lifted weights. being strong doesnt mean you can fight

***D7M*** · 09-11-2009, 05:42 PM

I'd rather fight Arnold for sure.

but it's not a fair comparison, since Bruce Lee was a fighter.

I can't think of someone who is ripped, fast, and strong, but wasn't a fighter for a better comparison.

**TITANIUM** · 09-11-2009, 05:47 PM

Neither.

Bruce lee would have just plain killed you out right.

Arnold would have beaten you to death.

I would have rather fought Arnold.

Atleast I would have a chance of survival.

T

**Juturna** · 09-11-2009, 05:49 PM

Nora Jones.

**Nooomoto** · 09-11-2009, 05:53 PM

I'd pick Arnold for sure...Bruce Lee would wreck my ass. When you're as fast and precise as Bruce Lee was, size doesn't really matter. Big doesn't equal good at fighting.

**DSM4Life** · 09-11-2009, 08:10 PM

Im a lover not a fighter....lets make some.

**Friend** · 09-11-2009, 08:24 PM

I would kick both their asses at the same time

**peteroy01** · 09-11-2009, 08:30 PM

i go with Walker Texas Ranger cause he always wins

**jbm** · 09-11-2009, 08:54 PM

Originally Posted by Noles12

I would fight arnold because he didnt train in fighting. He lifted weights. being strong doesnt mean you can fight

x2..........

**ninesecz** · 09-11-2009, 09:06 PM

9 out of 10 times a smaller guy is going to take it! the muscle and mass will almost always slow you down! There is a guy who lives around my neck of the woods who is like a super martial artist.. been to the sholin temple (not sure how to spell it) he is like 5'7" and 165# and looks as nothing to look at him.. This dude is rediculous in a fight! he is older now probably close to 40 but when he was around 28.. we were all hanging out in the city racing outr cars on the boulevard and we parked at a car wash.. he had a bunch of people talkin crap so he pulled $500 out of his pocket and set it in one of the bays.. he told any 5 guys that want to challenge him.. he will go in the bay with all 5 and shut the door and who ever wins get the cash.. Lets just say there was not 5 guys.. or 10 for that matter that would even have tried!

**Dukkit** · 09-11-2009, 09:42 PM

hell no im not goin up against bruce lee

your fukkin nuts

i could run circles around arnold. so ill take him on

**gixxerboy1** · 09-11-2009, 09:55 PM

Arnold in a second. I've beaten up guys alot bigger then me before. I know guys that big who admit they are pussies and cant fight

**energizer bunny** · 09-12-2009, 04:26 AM

Arnold all the way.......Bruce would destroy me...

**jbm** · 09-12-2009, 04:29 AM

**jbm** · 09-12-2009, 04:30 AM

**chicmagnet** · 09-12-2009, 05:46 AM

Bruce Lee was a machine, I'd fight Arnie.

**BokBok** · 09-12-2009, 05:55 AM

I would kick both their butts... But then I would wake up.

**J-Dogg** · 09-12-2009, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

9 out of 10 times a smaller guy is going to take it! the muscle and mass will almost always slow you down! There is a guy who lives around my neck of the woods who is like a super martial artist.. been to the sholin temple (not sure how to spell it) he is like 5'7" and 165# and looks as nothing to look at him.. This dude is rediculous in a fight! he is older now probably close to 40 but when he was around 28.. we were all hanging out in the city racing outr cars on the boulevard and we parked at a car wash.. he had a bunch of people talkin crap so he pulled $500 out of his pocket and set it in one of the bays.. he told any 5 guys that want to challenge him.. he will go in the bay with all 5 and shut the door and who ever wins get the cash.. Lets just say there was not 5 guys.. or 10 for that matter that would even have tried!

9 out of 10? you are on crack bro, either that or you know a bunch of meat heads that are pussies.

1. Being big does not mean you are slow
2. Being bigger/stronger gives you an advantage physically
3. Being slow means are depending on strength alone

Just because you are bigger, does not mean you are not trained to fight. A LOT of big guys when they get in a fight, just puff out their chest, and expect to walk through people, that stops when they get hit in the face.

Bigger and stronger than the guy? Grab a hold of his shirt with one hand and unload on him.

I can't believe because some little guy beat up a 17 year old roid head in the gym, suddenly the world things strength has nothing to do with a fight.

**PistolPete33** · 09-12-2009, 07:32 AM

Honestly it's a no-brainer. Bruce Lee was a trained fighter and Arnold was a trained bodybuilder. Arnold trained to build a Great physique while Bruce trained to break down great physiques. HAHA

You would stand a better chance fighting Arnold than Bruce.

However, if you took two top MMA fighters with equal skills and one weights 150lbs. and the other 250lbs. the 250lber would prob. do a lot more damage and be harder to fight.

This is the reason the UFC has added weight classes. When the talent pool increases then weight has a lot more to do with winning. This is why fighters will cut 15-25lbs. of weight before the fight so on fight night they have a huge advantage.

**terraj** · 09-12-2009, 07:41 AM

Why do bodybuilders always want to talk about fighting?
Bodybuilders make shit fighters!

**J-Dogg** · 09-12-2009, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by PistolPete33

Honestly it's a no-brainer. Bruce Lee was a trained fighter and Arnold was a trained bodybuilder. Arnold trained to build a Great physique while Bruce trained to break down great physiques. HAHA

You would stand a better chance fighting Arnold than Bruce.

However, if you took two top MMA fighters with equal skills and one weights 150lbs. and the other 250lbs. the 250lber would prob. do a lot more damage and be harder to fight.

This is the reason the UFC has added weight classes. When the talent pool increases then weight has a lot more to do with winning. This is why fighters will cut 15-25lbs. of weight before the fight so on fight night they have a huge advantage.

I think as the talent pool increases, it helps the little guy.

Some big guys just like to get punched around and are actually just pussies in a 250lb body.

Brock Lesnar is not a notoriously well trained MMA fighter, but he does not fight with a style like Bob Sapp. And Brock is beating guys who are smaller, and everyone can see, it's just sheer size and power that is allowing him to dominate most of them.

If you fight simply depending on size to over come your opponets, you get a fighting record like Bob Sapp (who still managed to beat Ernesto Hoost twice) but if you have some game plan, and are fighting to WIN, if you are committed to it, that size and strength works in your favor.

**elpropiotorvic** · 09-12-2009, 07:51 AM

With proper training u can be big and faster than middleweights ... I'd fight both for the fvck of fighting I'd love the exp.... Il prob get my ass handed but nice exp

**calgarian** · 09-12-2009, 08:07 AM

depends If I am Sust then I take Lee cause I have been told sust make u a good fighter

Why fight cant we talk about it???

. Married for too long

**terraj** · 09-12-2009, 08:07 AM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

I think as the talent pool increases, it helps the little guy.

Some big guys just like to get punched around and are actually just pussies in a 250lb body.

Brock Lesnar is not a notoriously well trained MMA fighter, but he does not fight with a style like Bob Sapp. And Brock is beating guys who are smaller, and everyone can see, it's just sheer size and power that is allowing him to dominate most of them.

If you fight simply depending on size to over come your opponets, you get a fighting record like Bob Sapp (who still managed to beat Ernesto Hoost twice) but if you have some game plan, and are fighting to WIN, if you are committed to it, that size and strength works in your favor.

You got idea what talking about mate.
Sapp V Hoost was K1....and it's a small ring when shared with Bob Sapp, Hoost, who I have met several times, lost the second fight because he was dumb and wanted to prove something. He had the fight in the bag!
Brock, that guy is top class on the ground! Do you think wrestling is all strengh?

**ni4ni** · 09-12-2009, 08:10 AM

arnold anytime over bruce

**PistolPete33** · 09-12-2009, 08:14 AM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

I think as the talent pool increases, it helps the little guy.

Some big guys just like to get punched around and are actually just pussies in a 250lb body.

Brock Lesnar is not a notoriously well trained MMA fighter, but he does not fight with a style like Bob Sapp. And Brock is beating guys who are smaller, and everyone can see, it's just sheer size and power that is allowing him to dominate most of them.

If you fight simply depending on size to over come your opponets, you get a fighting record like Bob Sapp (who still managed to beat Ernesto Hoost twice) but if you have some game plan, and are fighting to WIN, if you are committed to it, that size and strength works in your favor.

I'm not a fan of Brock Lesnar but to say he only wins because of his size is inaccurate. He was a national NCAA Division 1 champion so he has a LOT of skill. Is he the best Mixed Martial Artists? No, but he is a skilled fighter. When he gains experience we'll see what happens. He moves quickly esp. for his size. If you put him against GSP he would prob. still win. Here is a perfect example that GSP is hands-down a more skilled fighter for sure but Brock has so much more size that he would prob. win. However, if they were of equal weight then GSP would be the winner for sure. This is why they talk a lot about Pound for Pound best fighter. That person is prob. Andersen Silva at the moment.

But, you can look back to UFC 1-3 where Royce Gracie dominated everyone he fought at only 170lbs. However, his skill level was higher than his competition because they were all 1 dimensional. Now, you put Royce back in the cage and he is too 1 dimensional and would prob. lose like he did a few years ago to Matt Hughes.

**J-Dogg** · 09-12-2009, 08:19 AM

Originally Posted by terraj

You got idea what talking about mate.
Sapp V Hoost was K1....and it's a small ring when shared with Bob Sapp, Hoost, who I have met several times, lost the second fight because he was dumb and wanted to prove something. He had the fight in the bag!
Brock, that guy is top class on the ground! Do you think wrestling is all strengh?

Ya, I suppose I'm just some newb, knows nothing, yet I'm the one saying 9 times out of 10, the smaller guy wins.

Do I think Wrestling is ALL strength?

Exactly where do I say that? You suck at making a point, no harm intended, but no where do I say strength will WIN you a fight. What I do say, is it's a HELPFUL tool in a fight.

Would Brock be a D1 champ if he was not so big and athletic? There is a good chance he would not be.

Would Bob Sapp ever beat Hoost if he was the same size? Probably NOT

I'm glad Ernesto was nice enough to give you a autograph, but that does not impress me enough that I'll believe that size and strength is not a benefit in a fight. (now remember, I said benefit, not everything)

**J-Dogg** · 09-12-2009, 08:23 AM

Originally Posted by PistolPete33

I'm not a fan of Brock Lesnar but to say he only wins because of his size is inaccurate. He was a national NCAA Division 1 champion so he has a LOT of skill. Is he the best Mixed Martial Artists? No, but he is a skilled fighter. When he gains experience we'll see what happens. He moves quickly esp. for his size. If you put him against GSP he would prob. still win. Here is a perfect example that GSP is hands-down a more skilled fighter for sure but Brock has so much more size that he would prob. win. However, if they were of equal weight then GSP would be the winner for sure. This is why they talk a lot about Pound for Pound best fighter. That person is prob. Andersen Silva at the moment.

But, you can look back to UFC 1-3 where Royce Gracie dominated everyone he fought at only 170lbs. However, his skill level was higher than his competition because they were all 1 dimensional. Now, you put Royce back in the cage and he is too 1 dimensional and would prob. lose like he did a few years ago to Matt Hughes.

Again, re-read what I say.

Bob Sapps win's are just because of SIZE and STRENGTH.

Brocks size and strength HELPS him, he does not only depend on it to win. His size is a huge tool in his arsenal, but he goes in with a game plan too. You seem to have some knowledge of the MMA world, then you probably have read a lot about people wanting a super heavy weight class after brocks recent victories.

I can tell you Frank Mir and Randy are both better fighters than Brock though, and his size and strength advantage is what won the fight for him.

**PistolPete33** · 09-12-2009, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg;4858***

Again, re-read what I say.

Bob Sapps win's are just because of SIZE and STRENGTH.

Brocks size and strength HELPS him, he does not only depend on it to win. His size is a huge tool in his arsenal, but he goes in with a game plan too. You seem to have some knowledge of the MMA world, then you probably have read a lot about people wanting a super heavy weight class after brocks recent victories.

I can tell you Frank Mir and Randy are both better fighters than Brock though, and his size and strength advantage is what won the fight for him.

I agree that size and strength are HUGE advantages in a fight. As for adding a super heavyweight division I don't think we'll see that happen. There isn't enough total talent in the HW division right now so until the pool increases we won't see that happen. Also, there aren't a ton of super heavyweight fighters out there.

If you read my earlier post you would also put together that most fighters cut 15-25 pounds to make weight. That being said a 205lb. fighter is really 220-230lbs. and they cut all the water to make the 205 weight limit and rehydrate to be back at 220-230. They do this because if they have the added weight they have an advantage. Everything being equal then the bigger/stronger guy will almost always win.

As for Bruce vs. Arnold it's a no brainer because things are not equal here.

**J-Dogg** · 09-12-2009, 08:51 AM

Originally Posted by PistolPete33

I agree that size and strength are HUGE advantages in a fight. As for adding a super heavyweight division I don't think we'll see that happen. There isn't enough total talent in the HW division right now so until the pool increases we won't see that happen. Also, there aren't a ton of super heavyweight fighters out there.

If you read my earlier post you would also put together that most fighters cut 15-25 pounds to make weight. That being said a 205lb. fighter is really 220-230lbs. and they cut all the water to make the 205 weight limit and rehydrate to be back at 220-230. They do this because if they have the added weight they have an advantage. Everything being equal then the bigger/stronger guy will almost always win.

As for Bruce vs. Arnold it's a no brainer because things are not equal here.

100% agree.

Bruce would be so hard to fight because of his striking, moment and speed. He was only 135lbs, but you would probably exhaust yourself chasing him down getting kicked in the face the entire time.

You'd probably fair better against the little in a bar where his movement is limited.

**rockinred** · 09-12-2009, 09:06 AM

Guys, just for the record....don't go picking a fight with a big guy thinking you are going to lay into him because you are small and fast. These threads are cracking me up. Seriously, I have been around for a long time and big boys win the fight 9 out of 10 times. So it is the exact opposite.

I don't think that it is impossible for a smaller guy to take out a bigger guy, but all the years of growing up and boxing, the big boys win and were always the bullies.

If it is some small dude and big wussy then ok, but don't think that big guys aren't rough and mean either. You get a big dude that is mean and violent, it is just that much worse. So for all you little dudes just keep your head clear on this and don't be mislead by all these posts.

Even in the mma arena, it is confined to certain things... Sapp, Lesnar, GSP, all fight in a cage or ring with a set of rules. It is not the same as a street fight at all.

As far as Bruce and Arnold. We only know them from tv... and if I judged from their movies, then Arnold would kill us all... look at his fighting skills in commando or conan. lol. Seriously, I don't know eithers temperment in real life. No one knows if Arnold use to be a scrapper. It is totally possible that if he got a hold of Bruce he could freakin pound the shit out of him. now if they are in a wide open football field fighting then I can see Bruce lee running and tagging him and running and tagging him with no end. How many fights happen in an open filed anyway?

**rockinred** · 09-12-2009, 09:07 AM

BTW, J-Dogg is the only one who is real on this subject.

**elpropiotorvic** · 09-12-2009, 09:20 AM

^^^ I agree.. I once took A fight with a heavyweight thinking I was going to tag him and what not (265lb of lean mean muscle and exp) it turns out the guy had been that weight for the last ten years training mma and shit...Lucky for me it was only a three round fight ... And I got saved by the bell literally on the third round...he guy was as fast as me... Had a lot of endurance ... Bottom line go. My ass kicked... Didn't knock me out but my ass was handled ....

... Good ref for the future though

**J-Dogg** · 09-12-2009, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by rockinred

BTW, J-Dogg is the only one who is real on this subject.

I like this guy

**terraj** · 09-12-2009, 09:46 AM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

Ya, I suppose I'm just some newb, knows nothing, yet I'm the one saying 9 times out of 10, the smaller guy wins.

Do I think Wrestling is ALL strength?

Exactly where do I say that? You suck at making a point, no harm intended, but no where do I say strength will WIN you a fight. What I do say, is it's a HELPFUL tool in a fight.

Would Brock be a D1 champ if he was not so big and athletic? There is a good chance he would not be.

Would Bob Sapp ever beat Hoost if he was the same size? Probably NOT

I'm glad Ernesto was nice enough to give you a autograph, but that does not impress me enough that I'll believe that size and strength is not a benefit in a fight. (now remember, I said benefit, not everything)

Sorry to come across like a dick.
I agree with what you say, you just used poor examples, IMO.

**ninesecz** · 09-12-2009, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by J-Dogg

9 out of 10? you are on crack bro, either that or you know a bunch of meat heads that are pussies.

1. Being big does not mean you are slow
2. Being bigger/stronger gives you an advantage physically
3. Being slow means are depending on strength alone

Just because you are bigger, does not mean you are not trained to fight. A LOT of big guys when they get in a fight, just puff out their chest, and expect to walk through people, that stops when they get hit in the face.

Bigger and stronger than the guy? Grab a hold of his shirt with one hand and unload on him.

I can't believe because some little guy beat up a 17 year old roid head in the gym, suddenly the world things strength has nothing to do with a fight.

Yup I am on crack!! I have seen a lot of fights in my day and if the smaller guy has any brains.. he just waits until the big guy is tired out and then lays into him! I would love to watch you the big musclular guy go up against some 145# martial artist that could kick you in the face 22 times before you could even get your guard up and then tell me the little guy does not have the advantage! This is why they have things called "weight classes"

There is no way a 250# guy has the dexterity or the quickness of a 175# guy! Once you get big, you lose flexibility! Unless you are just not very big and have never been 250#+ then you might not know what I am talking about

**terraj** · 09-12-2009, 10:14 AM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

Yup I am on crack!! I have seen a lot of fights in my day and if the smaller guy has any brains.. he just waits until the big guy is tired out and then lays into him! I would love to watch you the big musclular guy go up against some 145# martial artist that could kick you in the face 22 times before you could even get your guard up and then tell me the little guy does not have the advantage! This is why they have things called "weight classes"

There is no way a 250# guy has the dexterity or the quickness of a 175# guy! Once you get big, you lose flexibility! Unless you are just not very big and have never been 250#+ then you might not know what I am talking about

Kind off...
I have trained and competed from 190 to 220, always been better with skill, technics and speed at the lighter weight. But, someone who is 220 naturally....different story

**J-Dogg** · 09-12-2009, 10:57 AM

Originally Posted by ninesecz

Yup I am on crack!! I have seen a lot of fights in my day and if the smaller guy has any brains.. he just waits until the big guy is tired out and then lays into him! I would love to watch you the big musclular guy go up against some 145# martial artist that could kick you in the face 22 times before you could even get your guard up and then tell me the little guy does not have the advantage! This is why they have things called "weight classes"

There is no way a 250# guy has the dexterity or the quickness of a 175# guy! Once you get big, you lose flexibility! Unless you are just not very big and have never been 250#+ then you might not know what I am talking about

All this time I've been wrong I guess.

Who knew they had weight classes to protect the 250lb fighters from the 145lb fighters.

I guess I was just looking at it the wrong way

**ninesecz** · 09-12-2009, 11:21 AM

The name of this thread is not big against small.. it is HUGE against fast... 220# is not Huge!! 250#, 285#, 320# is huge!! there is a big difference. I am not talking about some good shape 230# guy against some 175# guy...
I am talking about a guy the size of Ronnie Coleman or Kai Green in street fight against
a martial artist... The "ronnie coleman" does not stand a chance..

Not talking about a 220# guy in ood shape against a little smaller guy.. think about what you are debating