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**Twist** · 05-14-2011, 04:43 PM

What will happen if we don't raise the debt limit?

**stack_it** · 05-14-2011, 05:31 PM

We will have to get into our own reserve and start spending it.

**Twist** · 05-14-2011, 06:19 PM

There are people on one end saying that if we don't raise the debt limit the US is gonna crash and burn.
The other end people are saying that if we raise the debt limit without fixing our systemic issues, investors will see this and we will inevitably crash and burn.

If we didn't raise the debt limit and delayed payments a week or whatever would that be so bad?

Obviously what we should do is raise the limit but get a plan worked out and in writing...

**stack_it** · 05-14-2011, 06:26 PM

You're gonna hav opposition for everything. Looking at the small picture raising the debt limit sounds dumb. Looking deeper into the issue it makes sense. Why spend our money when we can spend everyone elses. That just allows is to keep our national "savings account" so to speak full and continue to let that grow. The other countries know that we are good for it and as long as we owe them they'll never be broke. China and japan don't have the stronghold like people think.

This is the same reason why we don't drill our own oil. Say that one day the oil does run out, which eventually it will. The world would break out into crisis with wars for the last remaining oil if no other major energy source has been developed and effective. Thing is you can't run a military without oil. So by the US refusing to drill and keep it's oil in the ground we would have a major military advantage and remain a super power that is virtually untouchable.

**Twist** · 05-14-2011, 07:03 PM

Originally Posted by stack_it

You're gonna hav opposition for everything. Looking at the small picture raising the debt limit sounds dumb. Looking deeper into the issue it makes sense. Why spend our money when we can spend everyone elses. That just allows is to keep our national "savings account" so to speak full and continue to let that grow.

Clarify your point of view for me stack. I am a little confused about what you're saying.

**stack_it** · 05-14-2011, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Twist

Clarify your point of view for me stack. I am a little confused about what you're saying.

Basically what I mean is as long as we can spend everyone esle's money then why tap into our reserve and start depleting it? By owing these other countries money it helps keep peace and reduces conflict. Who would attack a country that owes them millions/billions of dollars? That would gaurantee they weren't paid back. At the same time if they are attacked by someone they can expect a country that owes them that much money to have their back if needed. I'm for raising the national debt as long as they have a plan in place to spend it on things that are needed. No reason to get it and spend it on a bunch of dumb shit just because we can.

**Twist** · 05-14-2011, 07:59 PM

I don't think your analogy makes sense. If you take a loan from a bank you have to pay interest on the loan. You are still spending your money. The difference in spending money from a loan and money from a lender is that when you borrow from a lender you have to pay back with interest.

I don't think we are worried about the people we owe money to attacking us. We have a military for those matters. The US HAS to raise the debt ceiling. Otherwise default and we are all screwed. But the question is if we delay the payments by a week or so until we get a plan hammered out will that crash the market in itself? Or will investors look at us as if we had a tiny rough patch and fixed it so we are a good long term investment?

**stack_it** · 05-14-2011, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Twist

I don't think your analogy makes sense. If you take a loan from a bank you have to pay interest on the loan. You are still spending your money. The difference in spending money from a loan and money from a lender is that when you borrow from a lender you have to pay back with interest.

I don't think we are worried about the people we owe money to attacking us. We have a military for those matters. The US HAS to raise the debt ceiling. Otherwise default and we are all screwed. But the question is if we delay the payments by a week or so until we get a plan hammered out will that crash the market in itself? Or will investors look at us as if we had a tiny rough patch and fixed it so we are a good long term investment?

I think my analogy came off the wrong way. I understand we pay interest but the interest we pay is paid by taxpayers and other borrowed money which allows us to stay out of our reserve. I'm curious as to how the interest works on these loans and what the rate is.

I didn't say they would attack us or want to. I was just saying it's one more thing that would keep them from attacking us.

I doubt the market would crash from defaulting for a short time. I'm not very well versed on the market tho so I can't say either way confidently.

**Twist** · 05-16-2011, 01:21 PM

Nobody else pissed about this shit? Stocks have been down because stupid ass politicians are arguing about things that make no difference at all! ****ing republicans always trying to sneak shit in and ****ing democrats for always playing nice and being pussies! I can't stand these mother****ers. We have such a good country and they ruin everything we have become at a time when BRIC is growing. Assholes.

**RaginCajun** · 05-16-2011, 02:45 PM

they can start by looking at all the money the US gives as 'aide' to other countries. take pakistan for instance, we give them millions and get nothing in return. we bomb one city, and spend millions rebuilding it. i say stop some of the aide we give to foreign countries and see where that takes us. and stop giving out free handouts like welfare and other programs like that. i hate when people want free shit from the government and they do not even contribute their own tax dollars in because they are to lazy to find a job and have 16 kids!

**Twist** · 05-17-2011, 12:15 AM

I agree for the most part, but look at the graph. The big issues are not even on the table. We need to funnel that aide to pakistan but that's another story

**stack_it** · 05-17-2011, 06:31 AM

Originally Posted by 00ragincajun00

they can start by looking at all the money the US gives as 'aide' to other countries. take pakistan for instance, we give them millions and get nothing in return. we bomb one city, and spend millions rebuilding it. i say stop some of the aide we give to foreign countries and see where that takes us. and stop giving out free handouts like welfare and other programs like that. i hate when people want free shit from the government and they do not even contribute their own tax dollars in because they are to lazy to find a job and have 16 kids!

Every major country is required to give atleast .7 or .07(can't remember which one without looking it up) percent of there yearly budget to aide other countries. If you look up the numbers the US is one of the lowest contributors by a pretty marginal number.