Canadians booing our nat'l anthem?

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-23-2003, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by Decoder
Its all about the oil not terriosiom, im not naming the oil company, but a very famous oil company signed a contract with the US government to reconstruct the oil wells in iraq, making the US 680 BILLON dollars in the future.

Yyyyyeeeeaaahhhhh.....of course it's all about the oil!!!1 It has nothing to do with all the shit Saddam has pulled, all the lies he's told, all the innocent people he's killed. It's just about the oil. I have seen "first hand" some of the things that Saddam has done. I've seen the men, women, and (what pisses me off the most) the children that were brutally killed by this fuckhead. But I see now, thanks to your post that these aren't the reasons for us going into Iraq......it's just all about the oil. Thank you for clarifying that to me.

**Animal Cracker** · 03-23-2003, 11:29 AM

There are alot of great folks in Canada..but when that booing crap started, that is just that French gene coming out. Canada has helped that world in almost every war since WWII. However, there is a large liberal community that lives in teh north and an even larger arab population (how do you think they enter the US?)...I just hope no one carries this to far...Canada has always been there for the US, as well as the US for Canada. Thanks guys!

**Terinox** · 03-23-2003, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN

Yyyyyeeeeaaahhhhh.....of course it's all about the oil!!!1 It has nothing to do with all the shit Saddam has pulled, all the lies he's told, all the innocent people he's killed. It's just about the oil. I have seen "first hand" some of the things that Saddam has done. I've seen the men, women, and (what pisses me off the most) the children that were brutally killed by this fuckhead. But I see now, thanks to your post that these aren't the reasons for us going into Iraq......it's just all about the oil. Thank you for clarifying that to me.

There was a program on tv yesterday I think it was BBC station or something. They were showing Iraqi children dying due to what the U.S. had done. They were talking with students at the University of Baghdad and they were all saying how all they want is to go to school like normal people, and with the U.S. bombing them, they don't know what will happen. If you say first hand, you still aren't the actual person living their and having to live with the aftermath.

How come when Saddam was doing all that stuff, and killing his people which he was doing all this same shit like 10 years ago, why not go in then and take care of it? Why not 5 years ago? Why suddenly now?

If this was about oil (mostly) do you REALLY think Bush would admit to it? Not to mention it's not even Bush running the U.S. He is just a puppet of the real rulers who you will never see! All the big decisions are made by the billionaires, one of them which is oil companies. This stuff goes DEEP. Don't think that the U.S. gives a shit about how Saddam treats his people. You really think THAT ALONE gets Mr. President off his ass, assembles a shitload of troops and sends them in risking THEIR lives just for the good of the Iraqi people? COME ON!!!

Why not help all the oriental people suffering? The Russians who are starving? The Africans who are dying from disease? The Southern Americans with their civil wars over a president, etc...?!? You know why? Cuz NONE of those other countries have oil!!!

Example: If the U.S. were to find out that a bomb got INTO the United States BUT THROUGH Britain, and that there were British people involved in helping the terrorists ship the bomb to the U.S. do you honestly think that the U.S. would invade and bomb Britain? No. But, now, WITH NO PROOF WHAT SO EVER, the U.S. is invading Iraq and bombing them. What was the first thing that the U.S. did? They SECURED oil rigs in the Persian Gulf!!!

And do you honestly think CNN is going to show you all the bad stuff?! They censor ALL the shit that makes the U.S. look bad!!! The real fucken news is from the people who live there, and the few articles, websites that manage to post the shit up. Some radio shows, interviews with actual people from Iraq. You guys don't even know the half of it. So how could you claim so much? You only know what the U.S. tells you. I know that some Americans actually went to the ME and maybe served there, or stayed there for a while, and those people KNOW the real truth, but most won't speak up. They know the bad things their own government has done.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-23-2003, 01:52 PM

Actually yes if Britain did help terrorists we'd bomb and send in troops on them. Yes I've been to alot of these places while in the military....can't say what we were doing, but yes I was there! No I don't believe everything the media tells us. You talk like you know "everything" that's going on......what do you have connections with this "secret society" that "rule" the universe. Lay of the X-Files buddy....that show can fuck with your mind when you're not taking your meds!

**chicamahomico** · 03-23-2003, 02:27 PM

For the record, I support the war effort in Iraq. It's a good idea IMO. But the flag burining thing I have to disagree with you guys, although I understand a military viewpoint is different from a civillian one. The point is it doesn't matter if you're offended by flag burning, people still have a right to do it if they choose. And the thing about booing the Star Spangled Banner in Montreal, I must point out that Quebec isn't part of Canada. At least not my Canada.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-23-2003, 02:30 PM

chicamahomico- Yeah it is legal and they have a right, but they need to change that. If I made a comment about Canadians in general, I didn't mean to offend anyone....well except those idiots that were booing or against the war.

**Terinox** · 03-23-2003, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
Actually yes if Britain did help terrorists we'd bomb and send in troops on them. Yes I've been to alot of these places while in the military....can't say what we were doing, but yes I was there! No I don't believe everything the media tells us. You talk like you know "everything" that's going on......what do you have connections with this "secret society" that "rule" the universe. Lay of the X-Files buddy....that show can fuck with your mind when you're not taking your meds!

No I didn't mean British government, just British people. You have no right to bomb them!!! Just because a very small group of British people helped out! You telling me the U.S. would bomb them if that happened?! I disagree!

And I DO NOT know everything. And that is my point! So many people claim here that the U.S. is doing great and that they know everything, and that they support it, and there is proof, etc... Even though they do NOT. You can't say they are doing the RIGHT thing. And if you have read all my previous posts you would know I don't like Saddam nor do I think he should even be alive. BUT doing it this way is not the right way. The entire regime does need changing, but the power has to go to the PEOPLE and not the U.S.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-23-2003, 02:41 PM

Well how do you suggest they get rid of him.....let him die of old age. No I didn't mean bomb all of British people but if their leaders were responsible or backing terrorists, yes we would go to war with them!

**Terinox** · 03-23-2003, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by BIG TEXAN
Well how do you suggest they get rid of him.....let him die of old age. No I didn't mean bomb all of British people but if their leaders were responsible or backing terrorists, yes we would go to war with them!

Isn't the whole point of people protesting this war that there was no proof of the connection between terrorists and Iraq? I mean of course there is some connection, but it is most likely the BILLIONAIRES that DO NOT EVEN LIVE IN IRAQ!!! The guy is probably some rich ass Iraqi who lives in fucken South Africa or even in the U.S. If there was a problem with Britain like in the example I gave, the U.S. would let the BRITISH handle it and deal with the people, they wouldn't just STORM the country and release 250,000 U.S. military to stroll the streets with machine guns.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 03-23-2003, 02:56 PM

Ya know what........go smoke your peace pipe cause I'm through with ya! Besides your right the U.S. is just a big bad bully that's picking on all these innocent little countries that do absolutley nothing wrong. I'm tired of arguing with ya, like I've asked before...what should we do then, just write Saddam a nice little note asking him to please quit killing people and helping terrorists and to please just leave Iraq.

**demetri** · 03-23-2003, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by BamaSlamma
Canada has always been there for the US, as well as the US for Canada. Thanks guys!

Except for when the US invaded Canada. We got kind of pissed and burned down white house. The new one looks really nice

Right or wrong Canadians have the right of free speech and the right to express it. If my fellow Canadians want to boo the US national Anthem, Keith Katchuk (the guy was an ass when he was playing in Winnipeg), or what ever else they want then I say let them do it.

We think we're better than the Middle East because on paper we have human rights and the freedom of speech. One artist voices her opinion at a concert and all of a sudden radio stations in the US are refusing to play her records. Yes, American's have freedom of speech, but only if it is something that the Majority wants to hear.

I'm not sure if we know all the truth about what is going on in the Middle East. There's a lot of propaganda and misinformation from both sides. I honestly believe that Iraqis are an oppressed people and they do deserve to be free, but does that mean the coalition has the right to go in there?

If there are no weapons of mass destruction then technically it's an illegal war and no one should be there. Who will slap the US? Part of me wants to see the Coalition get beat. I mean if you trespass into someone’s backyard you're asking for an ass kicking.

On the other hand I took a trip to Romania over New Years. One thing that was unanimous amongst the people that I spoke to was "We were waiting for the American's to come and kill the communists; we were waiting for the American's to free us." If this is the case amongst the Iraqis then I think doomsday weapons or not the world should go in there and free those people.

**Warrior** · 03-23-2003, 04:24 PM

Terinox - you have to realize this shit costs money. And we have a huge defecit which in the end, translates to the young troops over there fighting for a little better than a thousand bucks per month base pay. Did you know that a huge percentage of US military families have to collect federal assistance... this is f'ed up. People think we have all kinds of money in the US - but this is not true... we DO HAVE A BUDGET.

We simply do not have the money to on a big Mother Theresa shopping spree... especially to help some countries who would just leech off the aid. Part of helping to fix a problem is stopping it from reoccuring. You can drop food in some areas in Africa all day long... until you have spent billions (tax payer billions), but then what? Just keep sending more food? Some countries need to figure out how to pull themselves out of the gutter... solutions are what's needed... not simply support.

We could go all over the world and help with building economies and starving families - but who's going to pay for it? The US? Hahaha... I get enough in taxes taken out of my pay!

Iraq is ran by very unstable leadership who has attacked it's neighboring countries and it's own people. So we don't ignore this and are trying to help elimiate the problem people.

**demetri** · 03-23-2003, 04:43 PM

The war in Iraq will be paid for by the Iraqis. The US and Britain will squeeze oil out of what ever government they set up after to pay for the "liberation".

I've never understood why the Middle Eastern people keep trying to kill each other. You'd think that if the west never tried holding those nations (ah, the great British Empire) in the first place that they'd just be killing each other. Maybe they'd have sorted this all out on their own. Maybe they still can.

How long did Iraq and Iran fight? Maybe if the embargoes hadn't been happening they'd all be fighting each other again.

**Terinox** · 03-23-2003, 05:11 PM

Originally posted by Warrior
Terinox - you have to realize this shit costs money. And we have a huge defecit which in the end, translates to the young troops over there fighting for a little better than a thousand bucks per month base pay. Did you know that a huge percentage of US military families have to collect federal assistance... this is f'ed up. People think we have all kinds of money in the US - but this is not true... we DO HAVE A BUDGET.

We simply do not have the money to on a big Mother Theresa shopping spree... especially to help some countries who would just leech off the aid. Part of helping to fix a problem is stopping it from reoccuring. You can drop food in some areas in Africa all day long... until you have spent billions (tax payer billions), but then what? Just keep sending more food? Some countries need to figure out how to pull themselves out of the gutter... solutions are what's needed... not simply support.

We could go all over the world and help with building economies and starving families - but who's going to pay for it? The US? Hahaha... I get enough in taxes taken out of my pay!

Iraq is ran by very unstable leadership who has attacked it's neighboring countries and it's own people. So we don't ignore this and are trying to help elimiate the problem people.

I do see what your saying bro. I just think it would be better if they could find a different way of approaching this whole thing and preventing the war. Or at least just sit back for a longer time and see what happens, both with other countries, and the UN. Personally I think they just rushed into it too fast. Just like someone said before, they thought about getting involved in the WWII for about 2 years before entering. So what was the huge hurry now. It's not like Saddam had submarines or ships on course to the U.S. The U.S. is very big, and they have control of a lot of stuff. All they had to do is send troops to Turkey (like they have now), and also send in ships to the Persian Gulf, but at least stay there for a while, and not go in yet. Let things play out for a while and see what happens.

**Warrior** · 03-23-2003, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Terinox

I do see what your saying bro. I just think it would be better if they could find a different way of approaching this whole thing and preventing the war. Or at least just sit back for a longer time and see what happens, both with other countries, and the UN. Personally I think they just rushed into it too fast. Just like someone said before, they thought about getting involved in the WWII for about 2 years before entering. So what was the huge hurry now. It's not like Saddam had submarines or ships on course to the U.S. The U.S. is very big, and they have control of a lot of stuff. All they had to do is send troops to Turkey (like they have now), and also send in ships to the Persian Gulf, but at least stay there for a while, and not go in yet. Let things play out for a while and see what happens.

This has been going on for over 10 years. The first time we were on the defense, kicked a little ass and then set some rules for them to follow. Which they didn't. So now we are on the offense - and if you think this War, or conflict is much of anything... it's not. It's a pretty easy win. We are not battling a huge empire. So we can be more strategic in how it is done.

You are right, Iraq does not have the resources to invade a US coast. Instead they use corwardly acts like what was done to us on September 11. In fact, not too many countries could invade New York, Normandy style. Instead the problem we run into are those trying to tear us apart from the inside - with espionage and cowardly terroristic acts. To keep some stability in the world we need to eliminate terrorist cells to keep the US safe, as well as her allies. This is not just about the US. It is about World stability and basic morales.

Economic tension and instability promotes conflicts leading to War. Allowing Iraq to continue for another 10 years would be very disaterous. Somethings you just have to leave to national intelligence and let the government make sound descions based on such... if you think you know everything going on from what CNN or BBC tells ya - your wrong.

**usualsuspect** · 03-23-2003, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Terinox
How come when Saddam was doing all that stuff, and killing his people which he was doing all this same shit like 10 years ago, why not go in then and take care of it? Why not 5 years ago? Why suddenly now?

Simply put, it has to be done whether it's today, tomorrow, or 10 years down the road. What do you really expect the US to just sit around and wait for Saddam to give us a reason to go in there. By that time it could be too late. Besides, he has already proven himself to being very dangerous and capable of mass destruction. Whats going to stop this ruthless tyrant from doing what he wants to do? For christ's sake, there's a good chance you and I might not be around in 5 years if Saddam is still walking on the face of this planet. Count your blessings buddy that someone is doing this.
But I'm all hears to listening to your idea of preventing Saddam from testing his nuclear arms on the US in the future? I guess we should we try to reason with this fellow? Should be try to negogiate with him? Let's be realistic here, there's only one way to do this and thats to cripple his regime. Just my uninformed CNN brainwashed opinion...Usualsuspect

**Terinox** · 03-23-2003, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by usualsuspect

Simply put, it has to be done whether it's today, tomorrow, or 10 years down the road. What do you really expect the US to just sit around and wait for Saddam to give us a reason to go in there. By that time it could be too late. Besides, he has already proven himself to being very dangerous and capable of mass destruction. Whats going to stop this ruthless tyrant from doing what he wants to do? For christ's sake, there's a good chance you and I might not be around in 5 years if Saddam is still walking on the face of this planet. Count your blessings buddy that someone is doing this.
But I'm all hears to listening to your idea of preventing Saddam from testing his nuclear arms on the US in the future? I guess we should we try to reason with this fellow? Should be try to negogiate with him? Let's be realistic here, there's only one way to do this and thats to cripple his regime. Just my uninformed CNN brainwashed opinion...Usualsuspect

Do you really think even Saddam would use a nuke on the U.S.? I really don't think he would. Not only do I think that he could not, but he wouldn't even if he could. I think that no one would, and the reason is simple. If Iraq or as a matter of fact, ANYONE tries to nuke North America, they KNOW that the U.S. will stage an all out war on the entire middle east. Not only will they send in everything they have, but if they actually know which country did it, they will start using nukes themselves, which will result in either a) a shitty world or b) the end of the world.

I'm ALL FOR Saddam being thrown out and the power being given to the PEOPLE. But that will not happen! U.S. will not allow the people to rule that country, like Demetri said, they will take control and sit their for a long time, controlling the government and taking the oil.

I would like NOTHING MORE then for Bush to do EXACTLY what he said. As a matter of fact I LOVED his speech he made. He goes, they are going to go in, with no casualties to civilians, they are gonna overthrow the regime, get rid of Saddam, and give power back to the people and help them thrive and live a normal life. BUT that is NOT what he is going to do. That is my point. My point is Bush is lying to everyone when he claims that it is ONLY those things he will do. He is behind something, there IS something to gain from all those or else he wouldn't go through all this trouble.

Another point here is WHY do you keep saying Saddam? You think by killing/exiling Saddam all your problems are settled? Like I said before, Saddam is a bad guy, but a LOT of the other guys involved in terrorist activities don't EVEN LIVE in Iraq! And once this war is finished, if the U.S. is lucky enough to even kill Saddam, Iraq will be no better off. Saddam will be gone, some other government will take over with a VERY similar regime. The people will still be in the same boat they were to begin with. And the ONLY difference will be a shitload of Americans in THEIR country controlling the power, the oil, and other things.

I don't "hate" or "disrespect" the soldiers that go into battle, for most of them are just doing their job. I don't even blame Bush cause I doubt it was even his decision. I said it before, U.S. is controlled by the unknown people who make these decisions.

NOBODY knows what will happen during and after this war. BUT, I PERSONALLY think that:

1. The threat of terrorism will still be quite high, not much change will occur.

2. The Americans will have ONLY pissed of Middle Eastern people more, and can expect retalliation.

3. The Iraqi civilians will be no better off, with less then what they had before this war.

4. U.S. will have complete control (or at least most of it) of the oil distribution in Iraq.

Why do you think 9/11 occured? Just because they thought it was a good idea? This was their way of saying U.S. is not invincible, and that they should leave the Middle East alone and mind their own business. Now, if that was the message of 9/11, and U.S. is now going to go and invade Iraq, after already bombing Afghanistan, do you think those terrorists are going to say "Oh we learned our lesson, time to back off?" No, they are only getting more and more pissed off, and they will only attack more and more. I KNOW that Bin Laden & Saddam don't give a shit about their own people, but this will NOT stop the threat on U.S.

**Heddie** · 03-27-2003, 12:02 AM

I'm going to respond to this in what I hope is a rational and understandable manner. I know Big texan is at the end of his rope with this and I hope to pick up where he left off. Terinox, this may seem as though it is directed at you, but it's not, so don't take this as a cheap shot towards you!

As a Marine veteran of the first "Gulf War", I have a strong understanding of what it is like over in the ME. I spent 14 months over there and saw the atrocities that Saddam inflicted on his own people for his personal agenda.

Yes, oil is a factor in the war. Was then, is now. Economics play a part in every war at some level. The oil is a huge factor because it not only affects our economy but the world as a whole. Saddam knows this and has always used the oil fields as leverage. If he would have simply followed the sanctions after the Gulf War, we would have helped rebuild his country for "Free", as we have done so many other's.

First of all, Saddam has been undoubtedly linked to terrorism. He has openly sponsored training camps and provided funding for many operations over the years. We have known this for quite some time but have chosen to stay back and wait for them to continue their terroristic efforts. After 9/11 things changed as to how the U.S. would respond to aggression aimed at our country. Bush took a stand and initiated the hunt for Bin Laden and his cronies. How could he be blamed for this? Is he supposed to sit back and just mark it up as a loss of life and go on?

Maybe everyone who is against the war should spend a couple of weeks in Irag. They can see how Saddam selectively executes men, women, children, and even relatives. He starves regions of the country because it provides him with a way of control. These people do not support him, but rather fear him because they have seen firsthand of what he is capable of doing. He is a monster. He has been in power this long by choice, because the U.S. Govt saw him as predictable and by taking him out would only make him into a martyr. We have had opportunities, but the ultimate decision was to keep him in power.

This war is necessary! Period. There will be many casualties on both sides. Innocents will be killed as well as soldiers. This is an unfortunate equation of war. The U.S. is the only true "SuperPower" left in the world, and with that comes the responsibilty of defending those who are unable to defend themselves. It is a tough job because there is always going to be those who are critical of no matter what is done. It's a tragedy that it has come to this. But we need to realize that as a free nation we bear the burden of helping other nations know the feeling of freedom and basic human rights. The Iraqi people are in desperate need of this help and it must come from us!!! Support our Troops!!

Semper FI!!

Doc M

And this is under my wife's screen name for some reason in case you were wondering if I turned to the other side!!

**Warrior** · 03-27-2003, 12:58 AM

Yeah Doc - I was gonna ask you if you spent too much time in Thailand recently

Female Member

**Animal Cracker** · 03-28-2003, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by demetri

Except for when the US invaded Canada. We got kind of pissed and burned down white house. The new one looks really nice

Right or wrong Canadians have the right of free speech and the right to express it. If my fellow Canadians want to boo the US national Anthem, Keith Katchuk (the guy was an ass when he was playing in Winnipeg), or what ever else they want then I say let them do it.

We think we're better than the Middle East because on paper we have human rights and the freedom of speech. One artist voices her opinion at a concert and all of a sudden radio stations in the US are refusing to play her records. Yes, American's have freedom of speech, but only if it is something that the Majority wants to hear.

I'm not sure if we know all the truth about what is going on in the Middle East. There's a lot of propaganda and misinformation from both sides. I honestly believe that Iraqis are an oppressed people and they do deserve to be free, but does that mean the coalition has the right to go in there?

If there are no weapons of mass destruction then technically it's an illegal war and no one should be there. Who will slap the US? Part of me wants to see the Coalition get beat. I mean if you trespass into someone’s backyard you're asking for an ass kicking.

On the other hand I took a trip to Romania over New Years. One thing that was unanimous amongst the people that I spoke to was "We were waiting for the American's to come and kill the communists; we were waiting for the American's to free us." If this is the case amongst the Iraqis then I think doomsday weapons or not the world should go in there and free those people.

Well as far the misinformation and propaganda...I work for NATO and not hindered by CNN or MTV like most of the cats in the world...I get see what goes on and read the reports coming from the guys in the front. As far as thinking we are better...yes we are all humans, but those peole have no culture and are brainwashed at the point of conception! There are only two sides in those peoples world..the Islamic and the satanic (i thought islam was supposed to be tolerant). If they would stop killing each other over some dried up earth , shower and stop being "Mad at the World" maybe more countries would welcome them into the modern world.
The former com bloc countires could care less about liberation at this point (well for the past 12 years). If they still think they are under the thumb of the commies...maybe they deserve to stay in the dark. Of course back in the days of the "cold war" they would not have known what to do with liberation...everything was being handled by the gov't...everything! Now, these former com-bloc countires have had time to transition so everything should be running smoothly.
It is now coming to the time when America is going to start protecting its own...if a country is implicated in the deaths of its citizens...someone will have to pay (i.e. Iran/Iraq/Pakistan/Palestine/Lebanon). I am not saying that i like it or agree with it, but it is the right thing to do. Where is Ronald Regan when we need him?! Remeber what he did to Khadafi?? That was great!