*Doctors and God Complex*

[Twist]

I have seen many doctors who act as if they are an all knowing god of some sort and if you question them or come up with a good idea yourself they seem to write it off. My question is, with the advent of the internet, how can doctors still hold this persona?

[paulzane]

Some do try Twist but with the information now available to the common man it is easier for us to be forearmed about whatever before we talk to the cvnts!

[DSM4Life]

My doctor insist that i call him Jesus.

[oscarjones]

My doc's name is actually hay-Zeus

[thegodfather]

I have seen many doctors who act as if they are an all knowing god of some sort and if you question them or come up with a good idea yourself they seem to write it off. My question is, with the advent of the internet, how can doctors still hold this persona?

This certainly isn't directed at you, but by in large, that is because the patients job is to come in and give an accurate description of their symptoms and to provide the doctor with a medical history. It's not your job to suggest a diagnosis. To presume that 2 or 3 hours on Google gives a person the skills necessary to make a complicated differential diagnosis, based on 4 years of medical school, and 4-7 years of medical training (residency+fellowship), is absurd.

So the simple answer, without getting carried away, is that most of the time the 'ideas' that the patient presents are usually complete and utter bullshit and they do not even come close to being accurate. WebMD and such, are great for people being proactive in seeking care, but that does not mean they should start suggesting differentials and courses of treatment.

My other axe to grind is with the advertising of prescription pharmaceuticals on the television directly to patients. "Ask your doctor about Celexa," "Ask your doctor about Lexapro," etc, etc, and so on. This is complete and utter crap, suggesting to consumers they should goto their doctors and say "I want this drug!" No, that is not how it works, you goto the doctor, and he tells you what drug you are going to be prescribed. This idea of advertising to patients directly, violates the entire principles by which prescription/controlled substances are predicated upon.

[auslifta]

This certainly isn't directed at you, but by in large, that is because the patients job is to come in and give an accurate description of their symptoms and to provide the doctor with a medical history. It's not your job to suggest a diagnosis. To presume that 2 or 3 hours on Google gives a person the skills necessary to make a complicated differential diagnosis, based on 4 years of medical school, and 4-7 years of medical training (residency+fellowship), is absurd.

So the simple answer, without getting carried away, is that most of the time the 'ideas' that the patient presents are usually complete and utter bullshit and they do not even come close to being accurate. WebMD and such, are great for people being proactive in seeking care, but that does not mean they should start suggesting differentials and courses of treatment.

My other axe to grind is with the advertising of prescription pharmaceuticals on the television directly to patients. "Ask your doctor about Celexa," "Ask your doctor about Lexapro," etc, etc, and so on. This is complete and utter crap, suggesting to consumers they should goto their doctors and say "I want this drug!" No, that is not how it works, you goto the doctor, and he tells you what drug you are going to be prescribed. This idea of advertising to patients directly, violates the entire principles by which prescription/controlled substances are predicated upon.

I couldnt believe when I saw adds for prescription drugs in USA, it blew my mind.

[RaginCajun]

I couldnt believe when I saw adds for prescription drugs in USA, it blew my mind.

i never looked at it from this perspective before. especially what thegodfather said, never thought it thru that way. i work for a doc and he is not a pharm pusher. he is the hardest 75 year old man i have ever seen work. he is an arrogant sucker but if i ever present him with ideas and such, he will sit and listen. we have a good relationship so maybe that is one thing. i do see what your saying twist and i think there needs to be more emphasis on patient/doc relations with the advent of the internet. one woman at my office orders her meds from a pharmacy over seas and said that her doctor recommended it. i think it is person to person.

[doxmaster]

So the simple answer, without getting carried away, is that most of the time the 'ideas' that the patient presents are usually complete and utter bullshit and they do not even come close to being accurate. WebMD and such, are great for people being proactive in seeking care, but that does not mean they should start suggesting differentials and courses of treatment.

My other axe to grind is with the advertising of prescription pharmaceuticals on the television directly to patients. "Ask your doctor about Celexa," "Ask your doctor about Lexapro," etc, etc, and so on. This is complete and utter crap, suggesting to consumers they should goto their doctors and say "I want this drug!" No, that is not how it works, you goto the doctor, and he tells you what drug you are going to be prescribed. This idea of advertising to patients directly, violates the entire principles by which prescription/controlled substances are predicated upon.[/QUOTE]

True about the whole 3 hours on google but I've had several doctors misdiagnose one injury and was given different medications over the period 9 months before they figured out it was tendonitus. It too three opinions later to get it right even though I said it felt inflamed the 1st day and was ignored 90% of doctors know there stuff the 10% are ignorant people who need to go back to med school.

[oscarjones]

This certainly isn't directed at you, but by in large, that is because the patients job is to come in and give an accurate description of their symptoms and to provide the doctor with a medical history. It's not your job to suggest a diagnosis. To presume that 2 or 3 hours on Google gives a person the skills necessary to make a complicated differential diagnosis, based on 4 years of medical school, and 4-7 years of medical training (residency+fellowship), is absurd.

So the simple answer, without getting carried away, is that most of the time the 'ideas' that the patient presents are usually complete and utter bullshit and they do not even come close to being accurate. WebMD and such, are great for people being proactive in seeking care, but that does not mean they should start suggesting differentials and courses of treatment.

My other axe to grind is with the advertising of prescription pharmaceuticals on the television directly to patients. "Ask your doctor about Celexa," "Ask your doctor about Lexapro," etc, etc, and so on. This is complete and utter crap, suggesting to consumers they should goto their doctors and say "I want this drug!" No, that is not how it works, you goto the doctor, and he tells you what drug you are going to be prescribed. This idea of advertising to patients directly, violates the entire principles by which prescription/controlled substances are predicated upon.

Yeah and most doctors prescribe whatever drugs they are being paid to prescribe by pharmaceutical companies. By biggest strife with most MDs is the fact they DO act like gods, and it's usually for their monetary benefits alone. They string their patients along, feed them antibiotics, destroy their healthy balance and then prescribe MORE drugs to deal with the symptoms, and never really addressing the root problem.

There is no "cure" except for letting the body heal itself. Drugs don't cure shit! They can be useful in a life or death situation, that I can attest to. Like acute infections or traumas, but half the shit general physicians deal with is complete BS, and the patients who land themselves in their office have grown up living an unhealthy lifestyle to begin with. Most would do good with therapeutic doses of vitamins, a healthy diet, and exercise!

I am sick of doctors and their routines and their god complex.

[Times Roman]

my doctor tries to discount all my research, which put us off on a wrong foot when we began talking about trt.

then i realized my doc, when challanged, would get real loud and try to talk over me, which also put us off on another wrong foot.

So, i'm like...

Damn Doc! All you got is a couple a bad feet there!

[RaginCajun]

my doctor tries to discount all my research, which put us off on a wrong foot when we began talking about trt.

then i realized my doc, when challanged, would get real loud and try to talk over me, which also put us off on another wrong foot.

So, i'm like...

Damn Doc! All you got is a couple a bad feet there!

haha! you crazy, old man!!!!

[thegodfather]

Yeah and most doctors prescribe whatever drugs they are being paid to prescribe by pharmaceutical companies. By biggest strife with most MDs is the fact they DO act like gods, and it's usually for their monetary benefits alone. They string their patients along, feed them antibiotics, destroy their healthy balance and then prescribe MORE drugs to deal with the symptoms, and never really addressing the root problem.

There is no "cure" except for letting the body heal itself. Drugs don't cure shit! They can be useful in a life or death situation, that I can attest to. Like acute infections or traumas, but half the shit general physicians deal with is complete BS, and the patients who land themselves in their office have grown up living an unhealthy lifestyle to begin with. Most would do good with therapeutic doses of vitamins, a healthy diet, and exercise!

I am sick of doctors and their routines and their god complex.

Now you've brought up another topic all together. Which is, patient non-compliance. You need to understand, the physician only has 15-30 minutes of time to spend evaluating the patients symptoms, doing workups, and then determining a differential. The doctor is very limited in what they can do for patients who do not heed the advice of the physician. I would say that at least 50% of cases that come through your average family practioners office can be fixed through simply changing their lifestyle. HOWEVER, the most important thing to understand is that VERY VERY FEW patients will EVER heed the advice from their physician. So you see the doctor is stuck between a rock and hard place. Let me give you an example...

Patient John Doe, a 54 year old male, with a history of heart disease in his familial tree, has come in to your office complaining of shortness of breath, intermittent angina, and lightheadedness. You order a typical blood workup, CBC w/diff, etc, and so on. Serology reveals he has his LDL is high, and HDL is low. You do a thorough history on the patient, and start to address lifestyle questions. John Doe reveals he has been a 1 pack a day smoker for 25 years, and that he eats red meat almost everyday, in addition to eating fast food quite often. Based on your knowledge of John Does lab workups, you suggest to him, that he MUST quit smoking, stop eating fast food, and limit his red meat intake to once per week or even less preferrably. You also recommend he see a nutritionist.

The patient is non-compliant with all of those recommendations, so his condition continutes to deteriorate. Therefore, your only option, is to prescribe him drugs, which will help to stop the atherosclerosis in its tracks, and if the patient has blood pressure issues, you will probably be giving them a beta-blocker as well.

[oscarjones]

Now you've brought up another topic all together. Which is, patient non-compliance. You need to understand, the physician only has 15-30 minutes of time to spend evaluating the patients symptoms, doing workups, and then determining a differential. The doctor is very limited in what they can do for patients who do not heed the advice of the physician. I would say that at least 50% of cases that come through your average family practioners office can be fixed through simply changing their lifestyle. HOWEVER, the most important thing to understand is that VERY VERY FEW patients will EVER heed the advice from their physician. So you see the doctor is stuck between a rock and hard place. Let me give you an example...

Patient John Doe, a 54 year old male, with a history of heart disease in his familial tree, has come in to your office complaining of shortness of breath, intermittent angina, and lightheadedness. You order a typical blood workup, CBC w/diff, etc, and so on. Serology reveals he has his LDL is high, and HDL is low. You do a thorough history on the patient, and start to address lifestyle questions. John Doe reveals he has been a 1 pack a day smoker for 25 years, and that he eats red meat almost everyday, in addition to eating fast food quite often. Based on your knowledge of John Does lab workups, you suggest to him, that he MUST quit smoking, stop eating fast food, and limit his red meat intake to once per week or even less preferrably. You also recommend he see a nutritionist.

The patient is non-compliant with all of those recommendations, so his condition continutes to deteriorate. Therefore, your only option, is to prescribe him drugs, which will help to stop the atherosclerosis in its tracks, and if the patient has blood pressure issues, you will probably be giving them a beta-blocker as well.

You don't HAVE to prescribe him drugs. That's just how you make money being a doctor. Why prolong an already miserable life? Is that really life anyway?

[Twist]

I have had over 100 doctors for sure. Out of all of them I have had probably 5 or less that really stood out as great doctors who actually wanted to solve my internal problems. Out of those 5 (about), two of them carry computers and used google and wikipedia during our visit.

My dermatologist ordered my ulcer tests and my trt. My stomach doctor told me to take prilosec because I just have a case of heart burn (I had an ulcer and a hiatal hernia). This is a common theme in my experience.

Now how about this: say a doctor graduated from med school and finished all training 15 years ago. Is that doctor up to date on all the new medical procedures/medications/trends etc? Some doctors seem to still be practicing as if nothing new is available (specifically in the hrt field). So what keeps doctors informed (I really don't know the answer).

[Shol'va]

Why do all doctors always want to check your prostate? The first thing every doc I see does, even my dentist, is put on his rubber gloves so I always just drop trowsers and assume the position and get it over with.

[calgarian]

Why do all doctors always want to check your prostate? The first thing every doc I see does, even my dentist, is put on his rubber gloves so I always just drop trowsers and assume the position and get it over with.

u like rubber wrapped things up ur butt.....

[brad1986]

Dr's for the most part in the u.s are glorified drug dealers. They take ONLY ONE nutrition class in college to become a dr yet they speak on nutrition like they know what there talking about. It frusterates me so much when clients come to me and show me these redicules diets there "dr" gave to them to help them lose wt..... the only answer i hear from dr's are surgey and heres a perscription

[Times Roman]

Why do all doctors always want to check your prostate? The first thing every doc I see does, even my dentist, is put on his rubber gloves so I always just drop trowsers and assume the position and get it over with.

if this is a problem for you, then you shouldn't be having your physicals performed in the back room of gay bars

[thegodfather]

I have had over 100 doctors for sure. Out of all of them I have had probably 5 or less that really stood out as great doctors who actually wanted to solve my internal problems. Out of those 5 (about), two of them carry computers and used google and wikipedia during our visit.

My dermatologist ordered my ulcer tests and my trt. My stomach doctor told me to take prilosec because I just have a case of heart burn (I had an ulcer and a hiatal hernia). This is a common theme in my experience.

Now how about this: say a doctor graduated from med school and finished all training 15 years ago. Is that doctor up to date on all the new medical procedures/medications/trends etc? Some doctors seem to still be practicing as if nothing new is available (specifically in the hrt field). So what keeps doctors informed (I really don't know the answer).

Yes, Doctors do stay up to date. Every state requires a certain number CME hours per year, in the field the doctor practices in. CME stands for Continung Medical Education. They are basically classes, seminars, journal presentations, etc, which discuss or present new technologies and techniques in the field, new modalities, etc, and so on. Additionally, representatives from a host of pharma,biotech,and other companies which produce products for the medical field, send these representatives to the doctors as 'salesmen' but their other purpose in addition to sales, is to educate and make the doctor aware of a new cutting edge drug, technology, piece of equipment, or modality of treatment. Although the latter is usually discussed in CME seminars and journal readings. So depending on what state you are in, each state has a system in place for assuring doctors do stay up to date via CME hours. They are required to meet these hours every year in order to stay licensed in their respective state.

[Twist]

Yes, Doctors do stay up to date. Every state requires a certain number CME hours per year, in the field the doctor practices in. CME stands for Continung Medical Education. They are basically classes, seminars, journal presentations, etc, which discuss or present new technologies and techniques in the field, new modalities, etc, and so on. Additionally, representatives from a host of pharma,biotech,and other companies which produce products for the medical field, send these representatives to the doctors as 'salesmen' but their other purpose in addition to sales, is to educate and make the doctor aware of a new cutting edge drug, technology, piece of equipment, or modality of treatment. Although the latter is usually discussed in CME seminars and journal readings. So depending on what state you are in, each state has a system in place for assuring doctors do stay up to date via CME hours. They are required to meet these hours every year in order to stay licensed in their respective state.

Thanks for the answer. So do doctors have to stay informed or is there a way to skip over those hours and not learn anything? Some doctors really know their shit and show interest and they clearly seem to be involved in their field, so why aren't all docs "in the know?"

[TranscriptionFactor]

This is good stuff to air out, and unfortunately, I've heard much of the same here before. Sounds like godfather is standing up to defend or being a devil's advocate, and as a fellow MD (I'm assuming he is too)I agree with what he says and yet also the gist of the complaints. There is a variety of quality in doctors, and it doesn't have to do (usually) with where they went to med school or even how well they did in med school. It does, however, have a bit more to do with where they did their residency (the real training) 'cause that influences what they learn, and it can be very regional, not the same in all parts of the country. By and large, MD's are conservative and resistant to change, it is a very hierarchical system. You want to "get with the program" not be an outsider, you try to do what is considered good practice, else you would get a bad reputation and it would expose you to lawsuits and the State board and/or your specialty board would sanction you, suspend your license or some other punitive action. All doctors are exposed to lawsuits, but if they stick to "the standard of care" it leaves them much less exposed. I imagine military and law enforcement guys can understand this paradigm. In general you can't afford to just go off the reservation.

Now some MD's have a personal interest in nutrition, sports medicine, AS, weight training, and take it upon themselves to acquire their education through all sources, including personal experience. These are few and far between, but often they do go into sports medicine, rehab, or orthopedics specialties. Some good Family practice ones will also know a lot. A good doctor does need to listen to his patients, he or she ought to know that a large part of being a doctor lies in explaining and educating patients, about their condition, their body, the medicine, etc. If he or she gets loud or short or angry, it could be that they are feeling threatened. And I suppose doctors have a certain sense of being threatened these days. Compensation is down, liability is as high as ever, patients are less deferential and armed with information, and there is SO MUCH information to keep up with. Regarding the question of whether a doc out 15 years from training can still be current, he can, but it is difficult - there is a process in place for this, docs must re-certify with their boards, they must take continuing medical education (CME courses) and go to conferences. Much easier for docs who work in academic centers, harder for docs stuck in the sticks, but the docs stuck in the sticks need to be kind of jacks of trades, need to be like special forces soldiers. Computers are making it easier for docs to stay current, to stay in touch with the information and newer procedures.

What we learn in medical school, much of it is outdated by the time we graduate. Let me say that again, much of what we are learning in medical school is out of date by the time we graduate, sometimes even as we are learning it. Not horribly so, usually, and there are things like Anatomy and Physiology which are well established and hardly change. But there are new medications and new therapies, and clinical trials going on all the time. Do NOT be concerned or disparage a doctor for referring to his iPad or smart phone, etc. - this is normal and the appropriate use of technology. What we learn in medical school is a LOT, but it is a CONTEXT, ultimately. I can rattle off from memory a huge amount of information on parasitic diseases, on their symptoms, what to look for, even how to to treat it, but I will still look go to a reference to check the appropriate dosing, to check whether there are any bad interactions of one medication with another, and so on. This is the appropriate use of computers and information technology. I have the context, I know what to look for. Even Einstein looked up certain constants of Physics, he didn't care to memorize them. We have only just begun to feel the Earthquake of change that information technology is going to bring to medicine. Does anybody realize just how much change has occurred in the last 15 years, with the growth of the internet, smart phones, data storage, social networks, video conferencing...all of that is just beginning to be felt in the medical world. There is a time lag because medicine is inherently conservative and slow to change.

Yes, its true that most docs don't know crap about nutrition or sports medicine or AS. Primarily, they have been educated and trained to deal with disease, to manage chronic conditions or to do some kind of heroic intervention, not keep the patient well in the first place. And the pharmaceutical industry is a huge, huge behemoth, just like the military-industrial complex, a double edged sword. Many good advances from pharmaceuticals, and others which are questionable. Do we really need a new drug for cholesterol or blood pressure or diabetes, or do people really just ought to change the f'kn lifestyle!!? And don't forget Oxycontin, brought out by Purdue pharmaceutical in 2000, I was an orthopedic resident and the drug reps were talking about how it was so great...and then years later we see all this addiction from it, people getting hooked, turning to heroin cause they can't get any more, people dying etc.

Nuff rant/
TF

[thegodfather]

This is good stuff to air out, and unfortunately, I've heard much of the same here before. Sounds like godfather is standing up to defend or being a devil's advocate, and as a fellow MD (I'm assuming he is too) Have applied for 2012 matriculation through AACOMAS (Osteopathic medicine), so we'll see what happens this fall as far as interview invites

I agree with what he says and yet also the gist of the complaints. There is a variety of quality in doctors, and it doesn't have to do (usually) with where they went to med school or even how well they did in med school. It does, however, have a bit more to do with where they did their residency (the real training) 'cause that influences what they learn, and it can be very regional, not the same in all parts of the country. I wish the general public understood this. I have lived the majority of my life in the North East, and attended two university's for undergraduate and post-bacclaureate in Philadelphia. I work at a very large Level I trauma center. I had also lived for a time in Florida, in the Tampa Bay area. I've had experience with their healthcare system through family illness's that occured down there, and their entire practice of medicine is lackluster to say the least. They just appear to be very 'behind'. But what members reading this should understand, is that the training process is most important because it is vital that the resident or fellow be exposed to a wide variety of cases, complex cases, and a lot of them. So a resident in a large teaching hospital in an inner city, will see a wider variety of cases than a resident in a rural area teaching hospital. Those who do their residency in the more heavily academic institutions, in my opinion, are more progressive and more receptive to change (this is relative of course, on a sliding scale, but by no means would I say it means they're 'open minded', lol)

By and large, MD's are conservative and resistant to change, it is a very hierarchical system. You want to "get with the program" not be an outsider, you try to do what is considered good practice, One of the reasons it took so long to get laws passed which limited residents work weeks to 80 hours per week. The idea of old school physicians that "If I went through it and worked 120 hours a week, so should they!" else you would get a bad reputation and it would expose you to lawsuits and the State board and/or your specialty board would sanction you, suspend your license or some other punitive action. All doctors are exposed to lawsuits, but if they stick to "the standard of care" it leaves them much less exposed. I imagine military and law enforcement guys can understand this paradigm. In general you can't afford to just go off the reservation.

Now some MD's have a personal interest in nutrition, sports medicine, AS, weight training, and take it upon themselves to acquire their education through all sources, including personal experience. These are few and far between, but often they do go into sports medicine, rehab, or orthopedics specialties. Some good Family practice ones will also know a lot. A good doctor does need to listen to his patients, he or she ought to know that a large part of being a doctor lies in explaining and educating patients, about their condition, their body, the medicine, etc. Important for members reading this to understand that our idea of health and fitness differs significantly from what medical academia considers 'healthy' and 'in shape,' which is to say, not being morbidly obese, being able to walk up stairs without getting short of breath, and eating a blanced diet like those that you see on those 'food pyramids' is pretty much what they consider healthy. We as bodybuilders, are at an extreme end of the spectrum, and would do well to realise this when interacting with people (doctors) who have undergone rigid training, and who do not share in our particular lifestyle. There is no emphasis on supplementation, weight lifting, etc, in the medical cirricula, so we should not expect the majority of doctors to be receptive.

If he or she gets loud or short or angry, it could be that they are feeling threatened. And I suppose doctors have a certain sense of being threatened these days. Compensation is down, liability is as high as ever, patients are less deferential and armed with information, and there is SO MUCH information to keep up with. Regarding the question of whether a doc out 15 years from training can still be current, he can, but it is difficult - there is a process in place for this, docs must re-certify with their boards, they must take continuing medical education (CME courses) and go to conferences. Much easier for docs who work in academic centers, harder for docs stuck in the sticks, but the docs stuck in the sticks need to be kind of jacks of trades, need to be like special forces soldiers. Computers are making it easier for docs to stay current, to stay in touch with the information and newer procedures.

What we learn in medical school, much of it is outdated by the time we graduate. Let me say that again, much of what we are learning in medical school is out of date by the time we graduate, sometimes even as we are learning it. Not horribly so, usually, and there are things like Anatomy and Physiology which are well established and hardly change. But there are new medications and new therapies, and clinical trials going on all the time. Do NOT be concerned or disparage a doctor for referring to his iPad or smart phone, etc. - this is normal and the appropriate use of technology. Agreed, Epocrates is an invaluable tool, as its inconceivable that a physician could memorize every single drug, every single ADR associated with those drugs, and the dosage recommendations for every drug in existence. However, as you know, you're probably very familiar with all of the drugs that are used within your scope of practice. What we learn in medical school is a LOT, but it is a CONTEXT, ultimately. I can rattle off from memory a huge amount of information on parasitic diseases, on their symptoms, what to look for, even how to to treat it, but I will still look go to a reference to check the appropriate dosing, to check whether there are any bad interactions of one medication with another, and so on. This is the appropriate use of computers and information technology. I have the context, I know what to look for. Even Einstein looked up certain constants of Physics, he didn't care to memorize them. We have only just begun to feel the Earthquake of change that information technology is going to bring to medicine. Does anybody realize just how much change has occurred in the last 15 years, with the growth of the internet, smart phones, data storage, social networks, video conferencing...all of that is just beginning to be felt in the medical world. There is a time lag because medicine is inherently conservative and slow to change. Not to start a war here, but this is the reason I was so attracted to Osteopathy versus Allopathy(and I'm not using the term pejoratively), is the difference in philosophy, and my friends who are DO's versus MD's, the philosophies in how they look at patients, and the open mindedness towards new or 'fringe' treatment modalities, seems to be more accepted by DO's. This is an endless debate, and by no means do I mean to state anything factual here, this is purely anecdotal on my part.

Yes, its true that most docs don't know crap about nutrition or sports medicine or AS. Primarily, they have been educated and trained to deal with disease, to manage chronic conditions or to do some kind of heroic intervention, not keep the patient well in the first place. And the pharmaceutical industry is a huge, huge behemoth, just like the military-industrial complex, a double edged sword. Many good advances from pharmaceuticals, and others which are questionable. Do we really need a new drug for cholesterol or blood pressure or diabetes, or do people really just ought to change the f'kn lifestyle!!? That was pretty much the point I was alluding to. The patient could reverse his atherosclerosis and attenuate his CHF if he stopped smoking, cut back on red meat, watched his salt intake, and implemented some sort of exercise regimen, just walking around the damn block once or twice every morning...Of course, most patients are non-compliant, so we give them Lipitor so they can keep being unhealthy fat slobs and draining the publicly funded coffers the next time they stroke out.

And don't forget Oxycontin, brought out by Purdue pharmaceutical in 2000, I was an orthopedic resident and the drug reps were talking about how it was so great...and then years later we see all this addiction from it, people getting hooked, turning to heroin cause they can't get any more, people dying etc. Well, its pretty evident that Purdue was absolutely complicit in misrepresenting the addictive nature of its new wonder drug (A high dose, time released Oxycodone HCL, what a novel idea!! Can you sense my sarcasm?), and that they most likely knowingly misrepresented this drug to physicians and to the public. In addition, with the RAMPANT diversion going on for the past 8-10 years, they continued to make their brand name formulary in a manner that made defeating the time released coating very easy, while generic manufacture's had been making a gel-like formula making defeating the time release much harder for at least 5 years. I find that very suspect

Nuff rant/
TF

I've responded in bold to everything you said...and I agree with your post in its entirety.

[jimmyinkedup]

Yeah and most doctors prescribe whatever drugs they are being paid to prescribe by pharmaceutical companies. By biggest strife with most MDs is the fact they DO act like gods, and it's usually for their monetary benefits alone. They string their patients along, feed them antibiotics, destroy their healthy balance and then prescribe MORE drugs to deal with the symptoms, and never really addressing the root problem.

There is no "cure" except for letting the body heal itself. Drugs don't cure shit! They can be useful in a life or death situation, that I can attest to. Like acute infections or traumas, but half the shit general physicians deal with is complete BS, and the patients who land themselves in their office have grown up living an unhealthy lifestyle to begin with. Most would do good with therapeutic doses of vitamins, a healthy diet, and exercise!

I am sick of doctors and their routines and their god complex.

Actually the bold above in your post rarely if ever takes place anymore. After crackdowns, kickbacks, even indirect ones - have been virtually eliminated. IMO thats what actually predicated the appeal to the public when marketing drugs. ie : If we cant buy the Drs we will buy the public through advertising.

In some ways I think Drs are like people - some are assholes - some are ok. Many people inherently look to them for all the answers - people need a firn opinion when it comes to their health so alot of pressure is on them to provide it. I doubt a Dr would be very successful if he were to say well im not sure but it could be this or maybe its that and maybe i should give you this drug or on the other hand maybe this other drug would be better. This fosters an all knowing air IMO.

As far as the eliteist attitudes unfortunately some people in this world feel a sense of entitlement when it comes to money AND their echelon in society. Often this is associated with levels and length of education. Hell it was exemplified here by some who do not have their feet firmly planted on the ground and suffer from self entitled delusions. The gist of that thread was that those with a college degree deserve to make more money than those without. Drs, attorneys - many occupations which require extensive education often seem to result in unwarranted arrogance by those practicing in said occupations.

All in all - I think we all have felt the way Twist does at one time or another. I certainly have had some Docs I didnt like - but like evrything else - if i dont like the service being provided I take my business elsewhere. Even in the era of linited edcision due to HMO type insurances - there are still vast options as far as Dr choice in most cases.

[SlimmerMe]

I think what bothers me most is the lack of curiosity/ability to delve into what is really happening to a patient. And I attribute a lot of this to the fact that most doctors were students who memorized a lot in school therefore assumed acing an exam qualified them to be a doctor who in the future would have to undercover what ails another human being.

If someone does not have this inherent gift of common sense/power of deduction it is frustrating hence triggers a lack of trust as to the diagnosis. Therefore one turns to the internet to dig deeper and wonders why on earth the doc didn't do his due diligence. But then again, you cannot teach perseverance nor curiosity.

[Twist]

Actually the bold above in your post rarely if ever takes place anymore. After crackdowns, kickbacks, even indirect ones - have been virtually eliminated. IMO thats what actually predicated the appeal to the public when marketing drugs. ie : If we cant buy the Drs we will buy the public through advertising.

I read something about this actually where doctors who were paid to talk about a certain drug by a pharma company wrote way more prescriptions for the drug than a doctor who was not paid. Otherwise the pharma companies would not pay the doctors.

[oscarjones]

Pharmaceutical companies and doctors both increase notional margin every time a drug is prescribed, I believe.

[PK-V]

Yep one doc did and im in the midst of suing her for misdiagnosing me

Karma will rape her and her family

GODSPEED

[Hoggage_54]

When advertising for prescription drugs was allowed in the USA (I think early 90's) drug costs increased 10 fold in the USA.

[tallguy21]

Yeah and most doctors prescribe whatever drugs they are being paid to prescribe by pharmaceutical companies. By biggest strife with most MDs is the fact they DO act like gods, and it's usually for their monetary benefits alone. They string their patients along, feed them antibiotics, destroy their healthy balance and then prescribe MORE drugs to deal with the symptoms, and never really addressing the root problem.

There is no "cure" except for letting the body heal itself. Drugs don't cure shit! They can be useful in a life or death situation, that I can attest to. Like acute infections or traumas, but half the shit general physicians deal with is complete BS, and the patients who land themselves in their office have grown up living an unhealthy lifestyle to begin with. Most would do good with therapeutic doses of vitamins, a healthy diet, and exercise!

I am sick of doctors and their routines and their god complex.

^^^I agree

[JohnnyVegas]

Great thread. A big THANKS to the doctors that posted!

[thegodfather]

You don't HAVE to prescribe him drugs. That's just how you make money being a doctor. Why prolong an already miserable life? Is that really life anyway?

I didn't indicate the patients quality of life was really that poor. Instead I alluded to some underlying pathology that could become life threatening 5-10 years down the road. High blood pressure, atherosclerosis, do not really present serious symptoms until the person has a blockage or strokes out, and by then its too late. So prescribing them drugs in lieu of them taking your advice on a lifestyle change, is something you do to avert a potential problem. It's probably a very good example of PRO ACTIVE medicine that everyone likes to talk about so much.

[oscarjones]

I didn't indicate the patients quality of life was really that poor. Instead I alluded to some underlying pathology that could become life threatening 5-10 years down the road. High blood pressure, atherosclerosis, do not really present serious symptoms until the person has a blockage or strokes out, and by then its too late. So prescribing them drugs in lieu of them taking your advice on a lifestyle change, is something you do to avert a potential problem. It's probably a very good example of PRO ACTIVE medicine that everyone likes to talk about so much.

Good point. It's just such a shame that it gets to that level! I can also imagine most patients don't actually change their lifestyle and just depend on the drugs long-term. That's what gets me.

[jimmyinkedup]

I read something about this actually where doctors who were paid to talk about a certain drug by a pharma company wrote way more prescriptions for the drug than a doctor who was not paid. Otherwise the pharma companies would not pay the doctors.

Id be shocked if this article pertains to any companies or physicians in the US within the last 2 years. Not saying it isnt possible but id be shocked. Direct kickbacks were addressed beginning in the earl 2000's - by 2004 the focus then siwtched to the practice you are referring too. The virtual end of this practice took place in 2009 when big pharma paid out over 3.5 billion in settlements and fines in a 7 month period and countless Drs liscenses were suspended or revoked. Id be very surprised if this was still occuring in the US with any frequency- It is rampant in China ...but to my knowledge it is well on the radar here in the US and does not occur with any frequency. Who knows though - A horny dog can f*ck through a fence ....so I could be wrong in my assesment of the outcome of the above actions and repercussions.

[Twist]

It was pretty recent I heard about it and it was being addressed as a current issue. Not sure on the times exactly, maybe one of the docs can chime in if they know for sure.

The way I understand it is this: doctors are paid to give seminars or talks to groups about a certain drug. They do this and get paid. The amount of prescriptions written for that drug by the doctor goes up dramatically.

[SlimmerMe]

Don't pharmaceuticals pay for/support medical schools? I have read this on several occasions.