Police chase leads to a shooting caught on tape! Check out this shit!

**Big Rush** · 05-15-2003, 01:51 AM

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/video...03/index.shtml

**HorseFace** · 05-15-2003, 02:27 AM

...

certainly not excessive force. Considering he had a gun and made a sudden, threatening movement by turning around.

What else could they do???

**jeffylyte** · 05-15-2003, 06:16 AM

Now I will prolly get slammed for this, but I have always lamented the fact that we let police get away with murder in this country (literally). I always look at it this way... If I was in that particular situation and being a non-police officer would they charge me? Now lets look at the facts before deciding. Say a man broke into my house. I can shoot him right? Maybe. In New York where I live (and most liberal states), the act of breaking and entering does not automatically place the owner at risk of life and limb. In La (where I grew up) the attitude is waste them. Fine this took place in La. Since the man was armed he would be considered a threat everywhere. So it seems case closed. Well, not so fast. What if you came in, the man turned and ran away. Unfortunately, nowhere in the US is it allowed to shoot a man in the back as he is escaping. It is understood that if somebody is running away, they are not threatening. So its manslaughter right? Well, what if the man turned pointed a gun (a threatening act) and then turned and ran. Well, this complicates things. In new york youll probably be charged, in La. not. In this case one police officer started shooting as the man turned and pointed a weapon so it is justified (IMHO), but and this is a big but...

he continued to shoot after the man turned (thereby shooting him in the back 5 or 6 times. why is this a problem? afterall he did as trained, shoot until the threat is gone. In new york if I did that I would be expected to stop once he turned and was no longer threatening, yet police can do it at will. In fact, they can riddle an unarmed immagrant 40+ times while in his doorway (not to mention shooting him in the bottom of the foot so he was on the ground) and get away with it.

Of course in this case, this was La. so it was to me legally justified, but barely.

**palme** · 05-15-2003, 07:06 AM

Downloading the video, from the stills i see 2 things, first police officer not competent enough to bring down the guy with a legsweep (easy) and (from the stills) looks like they could have stopped spraying him with bullets in the back...show some humanity and aim for the legs! Sure he had a gun, sure he made the quick turn but did he fire? I dont know what crime his guilty of and he should have dropped to gun but his no threat running away!
Ill come back when i see the video but whatever the crime, shooting a man in the back is wrong.

**mammoth** · 05-15-2003, 07:34 AM

I don't blame the cops at all! If you are stupid enough to point a gun at a cop then you deserve to get shot period! I have absolutely no pity for this man! He engaged in a police pursuit endangering peoples lives on the road. He then proceeded to point a gun at a cop. That alone would get any criminal shot in this type of situation. Legsweep?! C'mon...THE GUY WAS BRANDISHING A GUN IN PLAIN VIEW! Would you try to leg sweep a man holding a gun? Me, I am not that stupid! That is a sure way to get shot. The cops should have stopped firing when the man turned his back, but they were justified in shooting the man to begin with. I can't stand it when people try to make the criminals out to be victims.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 05-15-2003, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by mammoth
I can't stand it when people try to make the criminals out to be victims.

Exactly...... whatever happened to "once you break the law, you have no rights". I truely believe they need to instill this once again. I mean a man breaks into your home, your dog attacks him and he can sue you for it??? What the hell is that, or if a man is shot by the police while in flee and is handicapped by it he can sue them. Hell nowadays criminals have more freedoms and rights than law abiding citizens. I'm sick of all that crap......alright enough of this ranting...

**Butch** · 05-15-2003, 10:12 AM

How do you down load it.....I konw it's a stupid question but i downloaded it and it said i couldn't open it...help me out. Please....

**ripped4fsu** · 05-15-2003, 10:15 AM

Well,, call me crazy, but if you don't want to get shot, maybe you shouldn't point a gun at the police! That guy was either extremely high, or extremely stupid, but if you consider the innocent lives he put at risk running all those red lights... I say fuck him, he made his choice... he got what he deserved.

**Expendable** · 05-15-2003, 10:31 AM

brother got what he deserved... pointing a gun at police, not dropping it... dumb ass.

**TheMudMan** · 05-15-2003, 10:33 AM

If your dumb enough to pull a gun a cop then you deserve to die.

My youngest brother is a cop, gets paid shit and works in a really bad area. I didn't see anything wrong in that video.

**jarrett** · 05-15-2003, 10:57 AM

lol for people that dont think he deserved it. that fool had a gun on him for 1... 2 he was running from police. Oh wait yeah he looked like a great citizen fool was a CRACK HEAD as many bullets has he took before he dropped he had to be on something .... oh well one less thug on the streets to cause criminal mischeif

**Butch** · 05-15-2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by jarrett
lol for people that dont think he deserved it. that fool had a gun on him for 1... 2 he was running from police. Oh wait yeah he looked like a great citizen fool was a CRACK HEAD as many bullets has he took before he dropped he had to be on something .... oh well one less thug on the streets to cause criminal mischeif

I second that....

Jarrett

**jarrett** · 05-15-2003, 11:08 AM

BUTCH WHEN ARE YOU COMING TO TEXAS YOUNG MAN???

**The Butcher** · 05-15-2003, 11:13 AM

I think the Police were justified in stopping what they thought was an immediate threat, but if you read the play by play that another officer gave about the video tape you will learn that the guy actually didn't have a gun. It was a a silver cell phone. The Police thought it was a gun, and even after he was shot, the guy continued to turn around and point the cell phone (which was thought to be a gun) at the officers. The thing that always amazes me is that crack heads like that are surprised when they get their asses shot. If a man with a badge, a police car, and a gun tells me to stop, then I sure as hell am going to stop. People need to understand that the Police put their lives on the line everyday to enforce the laws, so they are naturally going to be concerned about saving their own lives. If someone appeared to be a threat to me I wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet or two in them.

**Terinox** · 05-15-2003, 12:07 PM

When I first viewed the tape, I didn't even think that was a gun? Are you guys SURE it was? Hell it looked like a freaken cell phone.

However, assuming it is a gun, then the police did what they had to do 100%. First of all, the police officer to the right of the screen, he tried to grab the guy, EVEN with the guy having a gun. Usually, if someone pulls out a gun into the open, and threatens a cop, hell I would expect the cop to shoot him right there on the spot. At least the first cop tried to do something first, then they slowly followed him, and the cop at the left followed from behind. Then the guy fucken turns around pointing the gun right at the cop, I did NOT hear sound in my version of the video, so I'm not sure, but did the criminal PULL the trigger of HIS gun? It wasn't too clear in the video, but either way, he pointed RIGHT at the officers head, what the hell was keeping the guy from shooting (if not right then, a little later). I mean come on, the cop had no choice. I do agree maybe they should have shot him in the legs first, or just once in the back BUT, their lives are still at risk, the guy could fall to the ground and turn and shoot at the cops. Once a police officers life is threatened, or is shot at, their job is to take out the suspect, until they are fully disabled (is it not)?

As much as I am against guns and killing and all that, personally I believe in that situation the cop had no other choice, and if I were in his place, having a gun pointed at my head, I would also shoot to kill.

**Terinox** · 05-15-2003, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by The Butcher
I think the Police were justified in stopping what they thought was an immediate threat, but if you read the play by play that another officer gave about the video tape you will learn that the guy actually didn't have a gun. It was a a silver cell phone. The Police thought it was a gun, and even after he was shot, the guy continued to turn around and point the cell phone (which was thought to be a gun) at the officers. The thing that always amazes me is that crack heads like that are surprised when they get their asses shot. If a man with a badge, a police car, and a gun tells me to stop, then I sure as hell am going to stop. People need to understand that the Police put their lives on the line everyday to enforce the laws, so they are naturally going to be concerned about saving their own lives. If someone appeared to be a threat to me I wouldn't hesitate to put a bullet or two in them.

Alright, well I was thinking about that (did not know it was actually a cell phone). If it REALLY was a cell phone, then the cops did not do what they were supposed to do. The first cop, to the right of the screen HAD to have seen it was a fucken cell phone!

BUT still, if they DID NOT see for sure it was a cell phone, the suspect, turning around and POINTED a silver object RIGHT at the cops head OBVIOUSLY was pretending (or letting the cops think) it was a gun. I mean WHY ELSE do you fucken point your cell point with two hands (just like a gun) at a cops head unless you are trying to scare/threaten the cop?!? So, although the cops made a mistake by shooting, it was an honest mistake, they still believed their lives to be in danger (ONLY IF THEY DID NOT KNOW IT WAS A CELL PHONE), so they had no choice.

That's about all I can think of

**Butch** · 05-15-2003, 12:32 PM

Originally posted by jarrett
BUTCH WHEN ARE YOU COMING TO TEXAS YOUNG MAN???

Most likely August....I am 89% sure it will be the beginning of August.

**Big Rush** · 05-15-2003, 12:57 PM

After viewing the videos last night, I just realized something in the last 12 hours or so. First off, the man got shot 6 or 7 times, by two different guns, before he hit the ground. Any "normal" person probably would have fallen after the first or second shot. This leads me to believe he was either high or drunk. He definitely fucked up and knew what he was doing. If he had just given up he would be alive right now. Let this be a lesson to all criminals who get drunk/high and think they are bulletproof.

**Power-BB** · 05-15-2003, 01:25 PM

Honestly this is a bad situation, but really the guy wasn't smart at all. Got what he deserved IMO

**tolinka** · 05-15-2003, 03:26 PM

I dont think its justified...Like Big Texan said, if you cross the line there is no way back, I agree with you 110%. But not in this case, I told my fellow workers when we watched it that it didnt look like a gun, the cop behind shouldve seen it. Secondly, you never supposed to shoot a guy when he is facing you with his back, that is just wrong...I know it was stupid thing of the crack head to do, but the cops need to be more aware of this shit, and you cannot shoot some one in the back 5-6 times!!! That is just murder and unfortunely those blood corrupted cops get away with shit like that all the time...i hate this fuckers, they think they have to much autoritie

**ripped4fsu** · 05-15-2003, 03:40 PM

yeah, you guys are right,, smoking all that crack probably just made him thirsty, so he was cruising to the 7-11 to get a slurpee,,, so what if he breeze'd a few red lights... and ignored the half dozen police cars chasing him. I mean, stupid cops right,,, they should have just ASKED the guy... "Pardon me sir, but is that a cell phone or a gun you keep pointing at us?"

I just wonder if your heart would still bleed for this guy if he had hit your car running one of those lights, maybe killing your girlfriend and/or paralying you...

But whatever, I'm done...

**Mentalism** · 05-15-2003, 04:03 PM

Sorry, but police are trained as PUBLIC SAFETY OFFICERS - not fucking Gang Bangin Killers. Cop #1 Shot him 5 Times before Cop #2 Took a shot... OVERKILL? Not to mention, they go through training to learn how to disarm a criminal/put him outta commision W/O using lethal force. The dude turned around, pointed his gun at a cop, then turned BACK around and kept walking away as he got shot.

Sorry, but the police are fucking fags for killing that guy. They shot him IN THe BACK - he was not a threat at the time he was being shot, he was walking away from the police, at which point he shoulda been tackled, not SHOT in the back. Its fucking bullshit and cops should never be given live rounds as safety officers. Give the fuckers rubber bullets or pepper grenades, because obviously they are fucking morons.

**Mentalism** · 05-15-2003, 04:07 PM

OMG. EVERY TIME I WATCH THIS IT PISSES ME THE FUCK OFF. Fuck the police, they are no better then the gang bangers who rob people. They just a bunch of gun toting thugs waiting for a reason to pop someone in the back and say it's justified. They want a legal way to carry a gun and drive fast. "Hey, lets start a organization who takes peoples rights and tells everyone what they are doing wrong all the time! Lets also give this organization authorization to use lethal force IF THEY see fit." Who are the police to decide its time to take a life? Fuck that bullshit. Complete bullshit.

**Big Rush** · 05-15-2003, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by tolinka
I dont think its justified... I told my fellow workers when we watched it that it didnt look like a gun, the cop behind shouldve seen it.

in all fareness, have you ever been in a situation like that? faced with a fleeing suspect, who has been on the run for well over 5 min. dodging cars/people and running red lights? he was obviously intoxicated. to me, it looked like a gun and i could see how the police though it was. it was shiny and silver. also, if you look at the video again, he actually POINTS it in his hand, like a gun! i don't believe the police were out to kill anyone. IMHO, they are 100% in the right.

**Mentalism** · 05-15-2003, 04:13 PM

HOLLY SHIT. IT WAS A CELL PHONE? THEY SHOT HIM IN THE BACK FOR POINTING A CELL PHONE AT THEM? HELLLOOOOOO?

**Big Rush** · 05-15-2003, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Mentalism
HOLLY SHIT. IT WAS A CELL PHONE? THEY SHOT HIM IN THE BACK FOR POINTING A CELL PHONE AT THEM? HELLLOOOOOO?

i cannot tell it was for sure a cell phone? can you? looks more like a gun to me, especially based on the way he pointed it...

**Big Rush** · 05-15-2003, 04:30 PM

ok, it was a cell phone, but when i first saw the video it looked like a gun to me...hands down....and i can definitely see why the cops thought it was a gun as well....and on another note, shreveport has a helluva lot of crime! i currently live an hour away and know many people from there. there is an armed robbery everyday and the pop. is only around 200,000...the police have their hands full over that way, trust me...maybe someone will think next time before acting so hostile towards the police

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/video...03/notes.shtml

and of course, this is all racial

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/html/...EE6A97FC.shtml

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/html/...37EC199E.shtml

**tolinka** · 05-15-2003, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by ripped4fsu
yeah, you guys are right,, smoking all that crack probably just made him thirsty, so he was cruising to the 7-11 to get a slurpee,,, so what if he breeze'd a few red lights... and ignored the half dozen police cars chasing him. I mean, stupid cops right,,, they should have just ASKED the guy... "Pardon me sir, but is that a cell phone or a gun you keep pointing at us?"

I just wonder if your heart would still bleed for this guy if he had hit your car running one of those lights, maybe killing your girlfriend and/or paralying you...

But whatever, I'm done...

I said that i am not justifying the guy, but he was shot when he was facing the back for a pointing a cell phone, why didnt the shoot him right away when he turned at pointed the cell phone at the cop? Wehy did they shoot him when he mad to steps walking aways from them? not ones not twice, but 6 times! If someone was robbing me on the street, and i did the same thing, id be sitting in jail now for 100 years...

**Mentalism** · 05-15-2003, 05:06 PM

FUCK THAT. They shot him to kill him and nothing else. 6-7 times in the back- they wanted him dead, just for POINTING what they thought was a cell phone. All and all, that guy ran a couple red lights, pointed a cell phone at a cop and was sentenced to death on the street by someone who spent 6 months in police academny and given a license to kill. That's EXACTLY what happened in case anyone was confused and thinks "the criminal wasnt the victim" here - because NO ONE ELSE but him was.

Its settling to know that I can get drunk, run a couple red lights... get outta my car w/ my cell phone in my hand and get shot in the back 7 times. Public Safety Officers MY ASS. I look over my back for cops 99% more then I look over my back for a robber or criminal. The fact is people are SCARED of the police - sorta the opposite of what they are supposed to do eh?

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

**Big Rush** · 05-15-2003, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by Mentalism

Its settling to know that I can get drunk, run a couple red lights... get outta my car w/ my cell phone in my hand and get shot in the back 7 times.

he ran more than a few red lights and i think he was more than drunk...he looked coked/cracked out to me, but thats merely speculation. The point is he ran from the police for 5 miles (mistake#1), then he finally pulls over and looks crazy as hell and has a shiny silver object in his hand which he points like a gun (mistake#2), he then pushes off the first officer who puts a gun in his fcae and tries to give him a fair chance to surrender (mistake#3), then he walks awat ignoring the requests of the officers to give up and drop what they thought was a weapon...he obviously refuse (mistake#4)...then as he's walking off he turns and says something to the officer still holding that siver shiny object, and then turns around again, which is when he was shot...maybe it could have been handled differently....maybe not....who are we to judge...we were not there that night in the same situation as the cops? they were scared for their lives and frankly i would have been too. The guy had ample time to surrender. He refused.

**Mentalism** · 05-15-2003, 07:33 PM

Doesnt mean he should have had his life taken. None of those offenses deserved death- and u know it

**Big Rush** · 05-15-2003, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by Mentalism
Doesnt mean he should have had his life taken. None of those offenses deserved death- and u know it

your right, but all i am saying how the police could make an honest mistake considering the circumstances...

**symatech** · 05-15-2003, 08:32 PM

Originally posted by Big Rush
After viewing the videos last night, I just realized something in the last 12 hours or so. First off, the man got shot 6 or 7 times, by two different guns, before he hit the ground. Any "normal" person probably would have fallen after the first or second shot. This leads me to believe he was either high or drunk. He definitely fucked up and knew what he was doing. If he had just given up he would be alive right now. Let this be a lesson to all criminals who get drunk/high and think they are bulletproof.

Naw bro...PCP

**TheMudMan** · 05-15-2003, 08:39 PM

Mentalism put yourself in that situation. Would you wait until he fired the gun? No matter if it was a cell phone or not he should have listen to the officers and not pointed ANYTHING at them. I will admit that being shot 6 to 7 times is going overboard but they are taught to unload the clip.

**tolinka** · 05-15-2003, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by TheMudMan
Mentalism put yourself in that situation. Would you wait until he fired the gun? No matter if it was a cell phone or not he should have listen to the officers and not pointed ANYTHING at them. I will admit that being shot 6 to 7 times is going overboard but they are taught to unload the clip.

Not on a person who is walking away from you.

**HorseFace** · 05-15-2003, 08:47 PM

That was summed up nicely big rush

a few more random ideas i thought of

1)I think the biggest mistake they made was following someone who they perceived had a gun so closely. A crazy man with a gun= stay the hell away.

2)the fact that he had a cell phone instead of a gun doesn't change a thing... he wanted to cops to think he had a gun(god knows why) and it worked.

3)This isnt vigilante justice, the cops no doubt thought their lives were threatened. I dont understand why the cops should have risked their lives for a dangerous criminal, he was given plenty of opportunity to give up.

4)they shot him until he fell down, I think 11 times... obviously he was on something.

**TheMudMan** · 05-15-2003, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by tolinka

Not on a person who is walking away from you.

You guys would make great lawyers. Free the bad guys and let the inocent suffer.

**WHOADY4SHOADY** · 05-15-2003, 08:53 PM

Man fuck him , I work in Orleans parish criminal district court and i see these mutha fuckers everyday. They are worthless. Im tired of seeing our police officers killed. Im glad they killed him.

**RON** · 05-15-2003, 09:30 PM

I don't think any of you can judge these cops unless you've been in the same situation. I myself thought it was a gun till I read it was not. So assuming they thought it was a gun what was wrong with there actions? Are they supposed to wait till after he shoots one of them before they fire back.

They tell him to drop it and he points it at them pretending it was indeed a gun (why I couldn't tell you

) . They shoot 2 rounds in the arm (non-lethal) and tell him to drop it again and still he does not. The question on how many bullets is too much: well how much life does it take to pull a trigger. I say they needed to continue till he complied. These guy put their lives on the line every day. What the hell was that idiot thinking anyway. He was on PCP for sure.

BTW I'm sure everyone has a strong opinion so lets just make sure we all respect each others

**Big Rush** · 05-15-2003, 09:46 PM

Symatech, RON..good point about the PCP....it is actually very common in low income areas for people to dip their cigarettes or joints in enbalming fluid or formaldehyde (sp?). This is what they call "sherm" or "fry", and it definitely precedes its name...

WHOADY4SHOADY, i hear ya brother, its tough down there! N.O. is a great place but full of scum and crime unfortunately...

there seems to be alot of anamosity towards police officers in general. All i can say to that is quit listening to Rage Against the Machine (i like the band, just not the message

) and wake the fuck up! They are here to keep the peace and protect us. Sure, many of them are power hungry assholes and corrupt as well, but give the good ones credit. They risk there lives every day for shit wages so you and i can live with peace of mind. Without them it would be anarchy.