Help me understand MATRIX RELOADED

**NAS** · 05-21-2003, 05:26 PM

Hi ppl, I'm going to watch Matrix Reloaded this Saturday (Can't wait), with about 20 friends.
I've read from threads about the complexity and incomprehensibitlity of the storyline or certain scenes etc.

Anyway, I was wondering those who are well conserved or the "matrix experts", please tell me what I need to look out for, or explain me the scenes that are going to be complex.

As half of my mates are going to be thick as f**** and they will be totally dumbfounded.

Come on ppl, help.

**BigGreen** · 05-21-2003, 06:00 PM

Not to sound Morpheus-like, but you can't particularly "understand" the matrix so to speak...there are unquestionably portions open to interpretation; in fact, much of the film is fairly open. However, it does require more attention to detail than the normal film, and where most people I've spoken with have gotten VERY lost and missed a HUGE point (i'm going to try not to make this a spoiler) is that they've missed the existence/role of a human with a goatee who befalls an unfortunate fate in the Matrix, but doesn't die....he is important.

**peregrine** · 05-24-2003, 06:09 PM

i didnt write this, just copied and pasted from the dsm forum im on.

Ok, here's my theory. I think there are multpiple matrices built within matrices. There have been 6 (or was it 7 now) matrices to contain people. Each time there is a singularity, someone who can mold the matrix to his will. His whole life builds up until the point where he tries to destroy the matrix. Now Neo is given a choice, he can lose Trinity and choose 16 women and 7 men to repopulate Zion. I think there's a possibility that those 24 people are reinserted in a matrix within a matrix without their knowledge. They begin a new Zion in a new matrix that has a matrix with people trapped in it. They believe they are still in the real world. As Neo says in the movie, "The problem is choice." They subconciously choose to believe that the new matrix within a matrix is the real world. They make this choice because they believe there is only one level to the matrix. They have already woken up so the believe they cannot still be within a matrix. In one of the Animatrix films there is supposed to be something about a runner who becomes somewhat aware of the matrix. I haven't seen that one of the videos yet, but what I saw from the previews it looks like he is standing on the block getting ready to run. He is talking to himself and convincing himself he is faster than everyone else, thus making him able to bend the rules. There are some people in the crowd (maybe morpheus and trinity but I don't remember) who are sitting there worried saying quietly, "Don't wake up. Don't wake up." They are afraid that he will totally realize the reality of the matrix and wake up from the dream in front of all those people watching. I think that Neo may have realized that he was still in a Matrix when the squiddie is coming at him. He stops and tries to force his will on the matrix. He attempts to stop the squiddie the same way he stops bullets. It seems to somewhat succeed but he collapses and falls into a coma. I think he may have waken up to a level above. If what he was told was the matrix is the 6th matrix within the other matrices then what he was told the is the real world would be the 5th level and he was able to wake up to the 4th level. One apparent flaw in this part of my idea is when people wake up from the 6th level to the 5th level their body disappears from the 6th level. I think that it would be smart programming to make different things happen to the bodies on different levels when people wake up so that others don't attempt to do the same thing. If they witness someone waking from the 5th level in the same way that someone wakes from the 6th then they know something is wrong and will try to wake from the 5th level to the 4th level. However, if when someone wakes up their 5th level body is disconnected from their 4th level mind and the 5th level body falls into a coma it doesn't bring up as many questions for the people of the 5th level. I think I had more to this idea earlier, but I've been in and out of my room typing this into Notepad all day so I could copy and paste it to grasscity when done. What do y'all think of my theory?

i think this is interesting.

**withoutd0ubt** · 05-26-2003, 01:27 PM

interesting....

**halifaxsteve** · 05-26-2003, 01:49 PM

intersting theory...i hadn't thought that deeply into it...lol

that's deep

**nmk85roll** · 05-26-2003, 04:37 PM

I think after a few drinks i'll understand that theory better.

***Cycleon*** · 05-28-2003, 09:08 PM

it is clear that the squidies do not exist in the "real" world (that which exists irrespective of your perception of it)

**BigGreen** · 05-28-2003, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by CYCLEON
it is clear that the squidies do not exist in the "real" world (that which exists irrespective of your perception of it)

Interesting and bold statement cycleon...would you care to elaborate just a little bit, as I'm not entirely sure which exact direction you're looking towards with the statement.

**KeyMastur** · 05-28-2003, 09:34 PM

It was my understanding that there were 5 or 6 matrices before the one that Neo is in. I didn't think there were different levels though. What I got from the conversation with the creator is that there were some flaws with the first matrix, and it was easy to conquer and destroy. So, they made a second matrix, same thing happened. On and on they fixed the bugs that were in them but there was always one person who would find more bugs. Matrix after matrix they slowly debugg the entire program until it becomes perfect. Now they sit in the 6th matrix (the movies we're watching)

***Cycleon*** · 05-28-2003, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by BigGreen

Interesting and bold statement cycleon...would you care to elaborate just a little bit, as I'm not entirely sure which exact direction you're looking towards with the statement.

Well, first, my reference to the spoon -

second, notice "mr smith" declares himself "free" yet he also declares that he is not free from his purpose (I did like your analysis of that with destiny being the next installment). Purpose is imposed by an outside force - you cannot choose your purpose (although destiny {acceptance or abnegation of purpose] seems something that you can refuse).

Lastly (well I am sure I am missing much still) - it is clear logic that if neo has power of will over the squiddies then by definition he has the ability to use his will to change the elements of that world - thuse there must exist some reality above that wherein his free choice can only effect himself and not be a power over the elements themselves. Notice even in the normal matrix, Neo had no power to change the will of other people. only power over the matrix itself.

interestingly, this is the same concept of Christian faith - because there exists ONE reality (God himself) that all other "realities" or matrixes exist within (levels of angels, humans, etc.) - and gives both power and purpose to each existence - we have the ability through faith to change elements of the matrix, yet nowhere in the Bible is faith given to change minds of people (subverting each individuals free will) - we also have the choice of accepting or rejecting our destinies by not fulfilling our purpose.

I coudl go on but I mustt finish a paper on National Security before the prof gets unhappy that it is 3 weeks late

**Tock** · 05-29-2003, 04:28 AM

I heard there was some kid who saw the movie and then shot his mother, saying she was part of a conspiracy or something. Geez, the kid should have shot the movie's scriptwriter . . .

I for one was royally pissed at the ending . . .
I paid for, and expected to see, a flick that had a beginning, a middle, and an end. I didn't get to see the end! I DIDN'T GET TO SEE THE GODDDAM END! They just flashed "To Be Concluded" up on the screen . . . Geez, if a meal at a restaurant was like this, or if Sex was like this, there'd be more murderers today . . .
I wouldn't have minded if they had mentioned it was just part 2 of a 3 part story (or will it be 4? 5? 6?), then I would've seen something else. But no . . . they had to go out of their way to antagonize and enrage me . . . INFIDELS! SCOFFERS! PHLEGMATICS! OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!
(calming down) Ya, I was pretty put off 'cause I hate it when I don't get to see the whole flick. That "To Be Concluded" notice kinda makes me think I should go back to the theater and ask for a free ticket to see the damn ending of the damn film 'cause they didn't put it in the damn sequal . . .
Enough of this post, this madness, these perpetrators of illicit cinematography . . . I'm gettin' riled up again . . .

**KeyMastur** · 05-29-2003, 07:41 AM

Tock, they did say it was part 2 of the story. Part 3 was made at the same time as Reloaded and comes out in 3 or 4 months.

**Strut99GT** · 05-29-2003, 08:02 AM

Originally posted by KeyMastur
Tock, they did say it was part 2 of the story. Part 3 was made at the same time as Reloaded and comes out in 3 or 4 months.

Uh, yeah Tock. Has your head been up your ass or what? They even showed a preview for the third and final movie after the credits of the second one. I just don't see how anyone that has actually ventured to see the Matrix movies can *not* have known about this.

***Cycleon*** · 05-29-2003, 10:38 AM

Perhaps Tock has not yet awakend to this level of reality

**Tock** · 05-29-2003, 02:04 PM

They even showed a preview for the third and final movie after the credits of the second one.
=====================================

Well, that's a terrific time to let ya know about the *3 part flick*--right after the second . . .
But everyone else seems to have known about it, so I guess I must have missed something somewhere . . . must not pay much attention to what's playing nowadays . . . oh well . . .
I'm still ticked off about it, though. I'm gonna go sit in the dirt and eat worms . . . that'll show 'em . . . hah . . .

**Explicit** · 06-04-2003, 12:50 PM

Basically in short. A matrix in a matrix. Some failed because humans kept waking up out of them because they had no hope. No hope for free choice. So the profit ( a program ) designed a new matrix giving humans hope. That hope was, freedom from the matrix. If humans felt there was a chance to be free, they would not wake up from the matrix and the crops ( humans in chambers for the machines) would continue.
That is why it was said that ZION was destroyed 6 times. The program keeps rewritting itself and the machines get better at it each time. NEO, at the end realizes the free world is another program in the matrix and he is still in a matrix. Thus he was able to manipulate the program at the end but took to much mental energy putting him in a coma

**monstercojones** · 06-04-2003, 03:56 PM

i agree that it is probable that the real world is itself a matrix that isnt real if you consider that there is an objective truth outside of all these matrixes. what i mean by objective truth is that there is a truth that is incontrovertable and outside of any perception. a truth that is true simply because it is true. a type of god, if you will. neo realizes that the 'real world' is simply another construction of the machines that has more restrictions than the matrix. the entire point of the discourse being presented by the Wachowski brothers, i think, is that nothing can believed or accepted blindly. even the most fundamental beliefs of the people within the 'real world' and within the matrix itself prove to be false.

**nj juice** · 06-08-2003, 11:45 PM

ok guys, what i dont understand is how can mr. smith be in 2 places at one time? Inside the matrix, there are hundreds of him, but in the "real world" @ zion, he is also the guy who is in a coma as well next to morpheus at the end of the movie. How is this possible that he can exist both in the matrix and zion at the same time?

**KeyMastur** · 06-09-2003, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by nj juice
ok guys, what i dont understand is how can mr. smith be in 2 places at one time? Inside the matrix, there are hundreds of him, but in the "real world" @ zion, he is also the guy who is in a coma as well next to morpheus at the end of the movie. How is this possible that he can exist both in the matrix and zion at the same time?

the way i understood it is that he is a virus. the guy in the coma who is trying to kill neon in the "real world" - his mind is infected by the virus.

but with the way some are explaining it as a matrix within a matrix within a matrix and so forth, then in truth, he's still in the matrix (computer program) - just at a different level.