Police Shooting - Michael Blair

[Metalject]

Not sure if this has been posted. If it has I didn't see it.

I don't see how this can be considered a justified shooting, not like this. This is insanity IMO.




News Report:

Video released of man shot dead by deputies in bathroom | News - Home

[joebailey1271]

Yea he should have used his night stick to knock the knife out of his hand while he was in the tub

[Chicagotarsier]

The moment he proceeded to use deadly force vs the cops they were now in "stand your ground" territory just like Zimmerman. This has been hashed and rehashed via the Zimmerman case.

The cops were VERY patient with him in my opinion.

Why the cops were in the house would shed more light on it also. The one issue I see is the cops did not announce to the guy they were cops but the tape started in the middle of the action.

Also why was the camera on and recording..almost as if it was a setup on the cop. Believe me I have no love for the pigs but something does not smell right.

[kronik420]

12 bullets kinda overkill....

might aswell unload another clip...

[Metalject]

The moment he proceeded to use deadly force vs the cops they were now in "stand your ground" territory just like Zimmerman. This has been hashed and rehashed via the Zimmerman case.

The cops were VERY patient with him in my opinion.

Why the cops were in the house would shed more light on it also. The one issue I see is the cops did not announce to the guy they were cops but the tape started in the middle of the action.

Also why was the camera on and recording..almost as if it was a setup on the cop. Believe me I have no love for the pigs but something does not smell right.

The cops were there because his family had called 911 because he had locked himself in the bathroom and was threatening to kill himself with a knife. It was a suicide call. Further, a full clip? Come on

[gearbox]

You got 2-3 grown men vs 1. The guy has a knife. No clue why the cops do not have stun gun, stick, mace. No reason to have a gun out imo. The guy was obviously crazy. But most cops I meet are not your typical well coordinated high school baseball or football player. As we discuss a lot on here most are dork with a badge and power trip.

[Metalject]

You got 2-3 grown men vs 1. The guy has a knife. No clue why the cops do not have stun gun, stick, mace. No reason to have a gun out imo. The guy was obviously crazy. But most cops I meet are not your typical well coordinated high school baseball or football player. As we discuss a lot on here most are dork with a badge and power trip.

The man was a paranoid schizophrenic.

[joebailey1271]

You got 2-3 grown men vs 1. The guy has a knife. No clue why the cops do not have stun gun, stick, mace. No reason to have a gun out imo. The guy was obviously crazy. But most cops I meet are not your typical well coordinated high school baseball or football player.

As we discuss a lot on here most are dork with a badge and power trip.

They did use the stun gun. It was not affecting him very much, and it looked like it actually pissed him off and made him charge the cop. The copped should have maced him and smashed his hand with the night stick.

[ppwc1985]

Defiantly no reason to fire that many shots, one shot two at the most. Cops just not trained enough in real life situations IMO. But yea the taser was doing much, could have handled it differently. High stress situations need highly trained ppl.

[clarky.]

FFS he could have just shot the guy in the leg there was no need to shoot him that many times it was a knife he had not a gun.

[Chicagotarsier]

I am sorry, I have not seen a shooting range beyond sniper school that teaches anything other than center of mass shooting. This is military or civilian.

They tased the bro and he had super human powers...ie angel dust esque.

The moment you fire it is DEADLY FORCE. It is not Mearly a Flesh Wound Force or Graze his Leg Force. Deadly Force. If you fire a weapon it had better be for one outcome....DEADLY FORCE. One shot or 15 does not matter. Reloading would matter. Bullets are a dime a piece, your life is invaluable.

I have no love for the police as stated above. I have actually been in situations where it was to kill or be killed. I choose the first choice as did these cops. If a guy charged me with a knife and he had displayed abnormal strength I would have been deep into my second clip by the time this cop had stopped firing. Lawyers can figure the rest out.

FFS he could have just shot the guy in the leg there was no need to shoot him that many times it was a knife he had not a gun.

[DOSA]

I really cant see how anyone would agree with this cop.

bloody hell, looked like he shot him in back or why guy was still on ground. where was this center mass you were talking about. after the first round or 3 the guy was down, why continue?
and there is a difference between one shot or 15, big difference.

lack of training, cops get paid shit therefore most do shit jobs. this shit should not of happened, no way.
you actually sound like a cop, the ones i really dislike.

[Chicagotarsier]

Again. If you are not trained in deadly force you would not understand. That is not a put down just the truth of the matter.

I served Iraq 5 years 80's 90's with people wearing IED vests or just carrying a kitchen knife coming at me with the same intent.

To explain center of mass in that situation your weapon angle defines center of mass. You keep your weapon at the navel if the person is facing you and not standing straight. This way the recoil will result in somewhere between a xyphoid shot and a clavicle shot.

How many people have you killed? If 0 just consider that you have never used deadly force and have no idea how you would react.

They used the stun gun on him twice and it did not subdue him. How many times do you want them to use it before he stabs them? 3? 4? 5? Again, I am the last guy to stand up for a cop. Seen people beat over traffic citations...that is crazy.

The real mistake in all of this was calling 911.

I really cant see how anyone would agree with this cop.

bloody hell, looked like he shot him in back or why guy was still on ground. where was this center mass you were talking about. after the first round or 3 the guy was down, why continue?
and there is a difference between one shot or 15, big difference.

lack of training, cops get paid shit therefore most do shit jobs. this shit should not of happened, no way.
you actually sound like a cop, the ones i really dislike.

[Lunk1]

I watched this video over and over. The shooting was completely justified. Try running a Tueller Drill and tell me if you still think he should have shot to wound. He raised the knife in a threatening manner and lunged at the cop....GAME OVER!

[kelkel]

Believe me I have no love for the pigs

Again, I am the last guy to stand up for a cop.

Sure hope you never actually need one. You said you were in the military, so I can only assume you've seen some improper things done by other members of the military as well. Do you now hate all of them too like you've branded the police?

[ppwc1985]

Completely justified at that point, but while he was in the tub he was close enough to disarm him with a baton. Couple well placed hits either at shoulder, elbow or wrist would have done the job. The guy was laying in the tub and twitching when they was hitting him with the volts. I feel they had a chance to disarm at that point, but I wasn't there so I can't say what was going through the officers mind. I've been in situations where I've had to make some tuff choices quickly but I was trained to make them. I for one know police officers are only doing their job and respect the majority of them.

[DOSA]

Just because people don't talk about how many people they killed doesn't mean they don't understand.
Please spare me your war stories.
There is a huge difference between military in Middle East doing sweeps and our police in our local neighborhoods.
These cops were piss poor in my mind.

Lunk are you really saying you couldn't of handled that without shooting him15 times?

I'm not trying to start a battle of me against police, but cmon man

[Lunk1]

Here is my opinion. The man had a deadly weapon and refused to comply. Deadly force was warranted and required. There is no such thing as shoot to wound or shoot to disarm, there is only... shoot to stop the threat.

[DOSA]

I'm in agreement with you, but don't you think it was overkill with 12-15 rounds?

The cops had more then enough chances to disarm a obvious case of someone mentally ill.

[V-ROID]

Looks like a clean kill to me. What a shitty job to have to deal with that shit day in day out. At least there is one less crazy **** in the world to confront my wife or I. Seems like pepper spray or tear gas would have been ideal in that situation.

[Lunk1]

I'm in agreement with you, but don't you think it was overkill with 12-15 rounds?

The cops had more then enough chances to disarm a obvious case of someone mentally ill.

They did everything they could to (safely) disarm him. Verbal commands followed by non lethal force. They gave him ample opportunity to surrender the weapon and only used deadly force when he made an aggressive move toward them. GOOD SHOOT!

As far as the round count...I have seen mortally wounded men who still carry on the fight for a good amount of time. None of us could see the suspects actions after he fell out of the cameras site. I have no problem with him dumping a mag and I would expect you to do the same if your life was in jeopardy.

Anyhow, I'm out cause as we all know, these threads always turn in to an LE bashing session. Have a wonderful Memorial weekend and stay safe. Don't end up a white cross on the side of a hwy.

[DOSA]

I appreciate your thoughts man.
That's why I directed it at you,I feel you are a good cop.

No beating on cops here, we just agree to disagree.

Thanks for answering.

[kronik420]

ive disarmed a guy with a knife before using nothing but my own 2 hands...

[Lunk1]

I once snatched a pebble from a mans hand and caught a fly with chop stick...all in the same day. Yep, I'm that good

[DOSA]

Easy there killer..

[clarky.]

Thank fvck the shitty UK cops have just got pepper spray and a wee sh*ty baton.

[austinite]

reticence...

[joebailey1271]

ive disarmed a guy with a knife before using nothing but my own 2 hands...

You must be Chuck Norris

[Metalject]

Here's my problem with the whole thing, it was a suicide call. That's problem number one. If the man had been standing on the edge of a ledge and then raised the knife in the air the policeman might as well have pushed him over the ledge. Did the man act appropriately? Of course not, but the man was not sane and his family called the police to help him, to help prevent his loss of life, not to ensure it. If I had a gun and a man lunged at me with a knife would I shoot? Probably so, but being that they had him on his back in a bathtub with a regular knife prior, it seemed like they had ample opportunity to resolve it without the need to take his life.

Lastly, the above line in another post "lunged at a cop" does this imply that's worse than lunging at a regular person? That is something that has always bothered me, that a policeman's life in some circles is deemed more valuable than others. All life should be equal regardless of title or position.

[Chicagotarsier]

I see your point.

I rebutt with

Why do you call 911 to get guys with guns to subdue a guy trying to kill himself? I think there is a lot more focus on supporting the Prison for Profit mantra than focus on helping people that need help. I do not know what the people could have done different to have different results.

Sometimes when someone wants to end their life (delusional or not) you just are not going to stop them.

Here's my problem with the whole thing, it was a suicide call. That's problem number one. If the man had been standing on the edge of a ledge and then raised the knife in the air the policeman might as well have pushed him over the ledge. Did the man act appropriately? Of course not, but the man was not sane and his family called the police to help him, to help prevent his loss of life, not to ensure it. If I had a gun and a man lunged at me with a knife would I shoot? Probably so, but being that they had him on his back in a bathtub with a regular knife prior, it seemed like they had ample opportunity to resolve it without the need to take his life.

Lastly, the above line in another post "lunged at a cop" does this imply that's worse than lunging at a regular person? That is something that has always bothered me, that a policeman's life in some circles is deemed more valuable than others. All life should be equal regardless of title or position.

[Chicagotarsier]

Chuck Norris only uses his hands for planetary realignments.

You must be Chuck Norris

[Lunk1]

Here's my problem with the whole thing, it was a suicide call. That's problem number one. If the man had been standing on the edge of a ledge and then raised the knife in the air the policeman might as well have pushed him over the ledge. Did the man act appropriately? Of course not, but the man was not sane and his family called the police to help him, to help prevent his loss of life, not to ensure it. If I had a gun and a man lunged at me with a knife would I shoot? Probably so, but being that they had him on his back in a bathtub with a regular knife prior, it seemed like they had ample opportunity to resolve it without the need to take his life.

Lastly, the above line in another post "lunged at a cop" does this imply that's worse than lunging at a regular person? That is something that has always bothered me, that a policeman's life in some circles is deemed more valuable than others. All life should be equal regardless of title or position.

They tried to reason with him, they tried to subdue him through the use of non deadly force, the put themselves in harms way numerous times trying to get him to release the knife. It wasn't until he raised the knife and charged the officer that deadly force was utilized.

All this BS about doing it another way is nothing more than Monday Morning Quarterbacking!

[kelkel]

Lastly, the above line in another post "lunged at a cop" does this imply that's worse than lunging at a regular person? That is something that has always bothered me, that a policeman's life in some circles is deemed more valuable than others. All life should be equal regardless of title or position.

A cops life is not deemed more valuable. But laws are in place to make offenses against an officer more severe as a deterrent and form of compliance. The reasons are obvious.

[Rwy]

He had his chance to comply. I understand the amount of shots fired were excessive and they didnt have to go for a kill shot. They could have wounded him but in that moment I would imagine its hard to do things the right way.

The guy has a knife and he is bleeding. What happens if he cut himself is hiv positive and threw the knife at the cop. Game over for him. I understand its sad but this man was obviously capable of hurting others on top of himself and was probably not receiving the right treatment.

It could have gone a lot worse...

[Hoggage_54]

It became excessive after the first few shots as the guy was already down. There should be trained mental health non-police staff available 24/7 to be with police during these types of calls.

Here's another example that is far worse than the above video... The kid had a tiny knife, didn't attack anyone, and the cops unloaded on him, and even tasered his dead body:

[AD]

All this BS about doing it another way is nothing more than Monday Morning Quarterbacking!

totally agree

as an outsider, it is ridiculous for anyone to comment on what should have been done. comments will only carry weight if you have gone through the same training, doing the same job, and put in a similar situation.

[Bonaparte]

I have to agree with Lunk and Tarsier in this one.

Yes, this situation could have been better handled by SWAT (using shields and riot gear to pin him down and disarm him), but those cops did what they had to in that last minute using the equipment on hand.

To everyone saying, "it was just a knife, they could have disarmed him": the guy had already cut his own chest/neck with the knife, so who knows what diseases (Hep C or HIV) were on that blade. Getting cut "just a little" while disarming him is not an option.

To everyone saying, "12 rounds was overkill": it doesn't matter. What if they shot him twice, and he still had the strength to stab 2 of them before dying? **** that. If you have to open fire, make sure he's dead so that there is sure to only be one casualty.

And for those of you saying, "it was only a suicide call, they could have just backed off": this wasn't a depressed individual threatening to jump. It was someone with no attachment to reality in a house, inhabited by a (screaming) family with neighbors. Letting him tire himself out isn't an option. He could decide to hurt others too.

Also: pepper spray wouldn't do anything against a guy in close confines (on his own turf) with an obviously very high pain tolerance. He doesn't need to see clearly to fight. Oh, and it would affect the officers as well in a small area like that.

[evander87]

Well a LEO tells me to put down a knife. I put the ****ing thing down. They told him damn near a 100 time to drop the knife. He didn't then he charged the officers? Yeah he's gonna get killed. I don't care what state of mind you're in you charge a cop with a knife, car, bat, whatever they are gonna kill you. Lesson to learn don't try and inflict harm on a LEO holding a gun on you. Justifiable shooting 100%

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