The Beginning Of The End For The Good Ole USA

[Shol'va]

Well guys and girls it's official. China today has become the worlds leading global economy knocking the US off it's pedestal since the late 1800's. !7.6 Trillion yearly to the US 17.4 Trillion annual economy. But then think about it. who spends trillions a year fighting wars all over the globe when the other country stays home producing goods and services for the world. even though all China produces is crap aka Walmart Junk, they still sell a butt load to the US. we are their number one purchaser. And who do we have to thank for losing our status. well look no further than Washington. Yep both Democrats and Republicans alike have sold this country out. The Republicans due to wanting to rid this country of it's unions. I mean after all why pay the American middle class 15 to 25 dollar an hour job and give them retirement features as well when
all they have to do is send those jobs to China at 15 cents an hour labor. And then the companies can keep those billions to themselves. It mainly comes down to excessive greed IMO. but I don't and cant blame the Chinese for being so savvy in their ways. But it breaks my heart to see our great country sold out as China comes over here on a huge buying spree with trillions to spend on our great hotels and factories and yes they even want our farm land in the midwest. And with politicians in Washington who sell us out on a dime we are up a creek. They are jumping over each other up there as they eagerly wait for the Chinese diplomats to arrive with stuffed suitcases filled with millions of dollars to sway them into voting in laws and regulations favorable to the Chinese Nation. Hell we don't need to worry about ISIS coming to our shores but we need rather worry about our own people selling our country out from under us. china outpacing us has happened much faster than even I had predicted. Last year I predicted five years before they would surpass us so they did it four years early. Plus they are all over our nation stealing top secrets and military secrets, technology secrets as well as hacking the crap out of our internet. Man I only wish I knew the answer to all this mess short of throwing all of Washington into prison camps for treason. But this is just my opinion. I hate being the gloomy one today but this sucks big time. As anyone who knows what goes on knows this is a major first step in being the worlds largest super power. I hope everyone know how to speak Manderin Chinese because at this rate it wont be long till we are forced to learn it and to understand their money system as the dollar will be replaced by their money world wide. Yep it's a sad day for America Indeed IMO

[Euroholic]

Its not really that big of a deal. looks like usa is slowly turning back to its pre ww1 isolation. How have business sold america out? Capitalism and nationalism do not go together. And the usa is home to capitalism .World powers rise and fall all the time over history. It will be many years if at all that china can project a carrier force like the usa can.

[Temporary Accnt]

Well guys and girls it's official. China today has become the worlds leading global economy knocking the US off it's pedestal since the late 1800's. !7.6 Trillion yearly to the US 17.4 Trillion annual economy. But then think about it. who spends trillions a year fighting wars all over the globe when the other country stays home producing goods and services for the world. .....

Perhaps its time for the American Government to mind its business and stop meddling in other countries affairs.

[davidtheman100]

It's easy to bring in more annual income as a country when your population is 4 times bigger than a countries, and you have people working in sweatshops for 12 hours a day at 1dollar/hr so they can ship the products they're making in 1 hour and make over 5000% profit for each one.. They have more than double the active duty troops, yet our defense budget is 3x bigger. I'd hardly say it's the beginning of the end for us.

"The IMF is referring to GDP adjusted for something called purchasing power parity (PPP). This takes into account how much people in a given country can actually buy. And if you’ve ever visited a developing country, you know that one dollar can buy quite a lot more of certain goods and services, like bread and milk or a meal at a restaurant, than it could in the West. PPP is an attempt to take that difference into account."

[Hoggage_54]

[Times Roman]

seen it coming 20 years ago. soon, India will topple china

[RaginCajun]

Aren't they starting to revolt in China?

[Rwy]

anti-paragraphing?

[Euroholic]

seen it coming 20 years ago. soon, India will topple china

You sure about that? What helps china is that is has the party in control

[Euroholic]

Aren't they starting to revolt in China?

No.

Pay better attention to the news

[Euroholic]

seen it coming 20 years ago. soon, India will topple china

What is making china so strong is that they have opened up to the world but still has one party in control. There mixing capitalism and nationalism to there one party ideas and forming a blend of what appears to be working.

[davidtheman100]

As USA becomes less of a world power, their huge entertainment industry is going to become more of a joke/waste of time.

[Euroholic]

As USA becomes less of a world power, their huge entertainment industry is going to become more of a joke/waste of time.

Ill take hollywood over bollywood everytime

[Deal Me In]

Aren't they starting to revolt in China?

You're thinking of Hong Kong. Different situation there. They were given a very strange status after the British pulled out.

[Shol'va]

Perhaps its time for the American Government to mind its business and stop meddling in other countries affairs.

From your lips to the American Governments ears............

[Shol'va]

What is making china so strong is that they have opened up to the world but still has one party in control. There mixing capitalism and nationalism to there one party ideas and forming a blend of what appears to be working.

What has made China so strong is the fact they entered into the American Market which by the way makes absolutely no sense. That is according to what they taught American students in school that China was a communist country and we never deal with them period. Yet here we are today in bed with them. The Chinese salivated for years trying to get a foot hold into the American market and thanks to much well placed tons of pay off money to the right representatives in Washington they succeeded. there will be a price to pay for all of this down the road IMO when China starts challenging American and European interests in the world.

[Metalject]

I agree with you in that both parties are to blame for decline in American power, greatness or whatever else you'd like to call it. But the overall fault lies with the American people, not the government. We've handed all of this to men (government). As a people, we've become far more invested in emotional issues rather than rational ones. Think about it, as a whole, we care more about social issues, hurting peoples feelings and "a fair society" than we do anything that actually matters. Our "give me" society, give me because I'm a live and deserve is also a huge reason for our decline.

Long and short, our system was designed to allow for the people to control the wellbeing of the nation. The government was put in place to ensure that was protected. For some reason we've reversed that and what you see is the result.

I do, however, disagree with the comments about wages and don't understand how or why anyone thinks forcing an increase in wages by legislation would fix anything. If your a company, your sole purpose is to drive a profit and the only way you can do so in a competitive society is to produce a desired product at the lowest price. Drive wages up, price goes up - price goes up, profit goes down. Profit goes down, as a business owner you'll do all you can to drive price down or you'll go out of business. This seems pretty basic to me.

[thegame1431]

their economy is a farce, it is all propped up by keeping their currency artifically low and on government spending on nothing, they build airports and buildings that are empty to boost their economy

[Euroholic]

China Overtook The US As The World's Largest Economy | Business Insider



Read this article sholva. Its not all bad

[Honkey_Kong]

I agree with you in that both parties are to blame for decline in American power, greatness or whatever else you'd like to call it. But the overall fault lies with the American people, not the government. We've handed all of this to men (government). As a people, we've become far more invested in emotional issues rather than rational ones. Think about it, as a whole, we care more about social issues, hurting peoples feelings and "a fair society" than we do anything that actually matters. Our "give me" society, give me because I'm a live and deserve is also a huge reason for our decline.

Long and short, our system was designed to allow for the people to control the wellbeing of the nation. The government was put in place to ensure that was protected. For some reason we've reversed that and what you see is the result.

I do, however, disagree with the comments about wages and don't understand how or why anyone thinks forcing an increase in wages by legislation would fix anything. If your a company, your sole purpose is to drive a profit and the only way you can do so in a competitive society is to produce a desired product at the lowest price. Drive wages up, price goes up - price goes up, profit goes down. Profit goes down, as a business owner you'll do all you can to drive price down or you'll go out of business. This seems pretty basic to me.

Forcing an increase in wages itself is a temporary fix. What is required is price fixing and limiting of salaries/bonuses of the upper end of the corporate echelon. When a CEO is making 200x the money the average worker, in the same company, is making, somethings wrong. And no single person is worth the wages these guys have been making. It's actually showing many parallels to a feudal system except now we have this illusion that we're free.

And the American public really can't be held to blame either. It's not like we have the ability to revolt. Watch what will happen if you try. And so you can argue that we'll just vote these bad seeds in our government that have been bought and paid for by our wealthy oligarchs. But when the costs for even state assembly seat campaigns can sometimes run in the millions, that money has to come from somewhere. So everybody that is presented to us as a candidate IS working for the wealthy who are ruining America (and the western world for that matter) and not for the people. So how do the people make change?

[Shol'va]

I know that nothing is all black and white. there are always shades of grey. And it's not a perfect world nor is ours a perfect country. Nor is anyone elses for that matter. i could go on about how China cheats us all with how they do their economy and how unfairly they play by our rules. but all of us, European nations included, love cheap labor as well as cheap products. And China fits that bill. My main concern is China is a wild card that just might come back to bite us all in the end. Lets hope not. Yeah it's a shame all nations couldn't work together for the greater good of all mankind. Think of what this world could accomplish if we all worked together to solve all problems and create new ideas and technologies. But instead everyone seems to worry about what the other guy has created and paranoia sets in so we spy on each other. It's a crazy messed up world. lol

[Shol'va]

In the mean time here is a pic to lighten the mood....

[Times Roman]

You sure about that? What helps china is that is has the party in control

what helps India is a highly educated population, with a significant work ethic. Their constraint is their weak government and their infrastructure, which will eventually improve.

China's strength will eventually become their own unduing - military controlled form of government. As their society evolves, and becomes more enlightened, at some point, it seems highly probable, they can experience something similar to what the Soviet government experienced under Gorbachov. China cannot sustain itself on slave labor forever. And their centralized city planning is extremely inefficient. Whole cities are created, with extremely expensive skyscrapers basically uninhabited. China to a certain extent is squandering it's economic bonus.

[Times Roman]

I agree with you in that both parties are to blame for decline in American power, greatness or whatever else you'd like to call it. But the overall fault lies with the American people, not the government. We've handed all of this to men (government). As a people, we've become far more invested in emotional issues rather than rational ones. Think about it, as a whole, we care more about social issues, hurting peoples feelings and "a fair society" than we do anything that actually matters. Our "give me" society, give me because I'm a live and deserve is also a huge reason for our decline.

Long and short, our system was designed to allow for the people to control the wellbeing of the nation. The government was put in place to ensure that was protected. For some reason we've reversed that and what you see is the result.

I do, however, disagree with the comments about wages and don't understand how or why anyone thinks forcing an increase in wages by legislation would fix anything. If your a company, your sole purpose is to drive a profit and the only way you can do so in a competitive society is to produce a desired product at the lowest price. Drive wages up, price goes up - price goes up, profit goes down. Profit goes down, as a business owner you'll do all you can to drive price down or you'll go out of business. This seems pretty basic to me.

Personally, I don't think we could have changed the outcome, maybe delayed it some. Too many global inequities exist. Our prosperity inevitably had to bleed off into other countries less prosperous. It's human nature. Water seeks it's own level, and so does prosperity. Prosperity contained with in artificial boundries/boarders cannot last. It's a basic, fundamental economic principle. You can fight the tide for awhile, but eventually the ocean will always win.

Any time you make a decision for a society, there will be winners and losers. If you raise the minimum wage, it increases labor expense. Some businesses will refrain from hiring decisions, and that means some bloke that would have been hired, won't. Others that retain their jobs will see a small bump in their paycheck.

You shop at walmart because you like to buy cheap household items. But to get those items at a low cost, they have to be manufactured with a reduced cost, where your materials and labor costs are lower. Materials can be exported to a certain extent; labor, not so much. So that means Walmart has to buy those cheap items in foreign countries. So you save a couple of bucks buying household items, and that means someone that ordinarily would have made that product here, doesn't have that job. You win by saving a couple of bucks, some one else loses because they don't have a job.

We are a democracy, not an autocracy. We let the consumer make the decisions, not a central government. This situation we find ourselves in was bound to happen.

Whether we like it or not.

[outlaw78]

The problem with this country is the people its self. The same people that know all but do not wanna do anything about it to change this country for better and take it from the clutches of corrupt scum.
This silencing of the people is done through media brainwashing on a daily bases and through the illusion of choice. Simple material perks that people enjoy are available cheep making the dumbdown masses even dumber and more susceptible to the ruling elite. The illusion of 2 party system is just that, an illusion. The owners of this country are the bankers and CFR, consisting of 83 richest man in North America who rule undisputed., while the % of unemployed and fat keeps growing. Time to wake up the sheeple while they can still be awakened. Boycott the elections until all the scum is expelled form their seats.

[outlaw78]

What is happening to China has been done by design. To weaken America and its people is end goal. This is done by CFR who is running our country. Bill Clinton said that he was just a visual representation of the presidency... find the quote. Rapist with a test for truth. NWO will take place and this country will never bee what it used to be, due to the lie spoon feed to the American people.

[Joco71]

I agree with you TR, but our consumers are highly influenced by government controlled marketing and media. Also our country tax and regulate manufacturing companies to the point it makes choose to manufacture elsewhere. Then you have companies like Boehing that made billions in profit last year and never paid a red cent in tax. But then shut down a huge mfg plant in WI and said they were putting the plant in mexico or china. Also Obama had the main guy from Boehing head a committee on how to keep manufacturing jobs in the USA. What A JOKE!!

[Deal Me In]

And the American public really can't be held to blame either. It's not like we have the ability to revolt. Watch what will happen if you try. And so you can argue that we'll just vote these bad seeds in our government that have been bought and paid for by our wealthy oligarchs. But when the costs for even state assembly seat campaigns can sometimes run in the millions, that money has to come from somewhere. So everybody that is presented to us as a candidate IS working for the wealthy who are ruining America (and the western world for that matter) and not for the people. So how do the people make change?

This isn't that hard. Campaign reform is knowable and doable. Public financing of all elections. Limit campaign season to 3 months. Mandatory voting.

We know how to get money out of election politics, we just choose not too. The rich of rigged the election process and they aren't going to give it up easily. It must be taken from them.

[jesse4466]

China manufactures for apple as well...aka worlds largest company. Something can be said about that.

[davidtheman100]

China can't handle being on top of the world. Once their middle class starts feeling that they deserve more money all hell will break loose with that country. India is quickly catching up to them and hates them as well. When people invest, guess what money they invest in? That's right, the US dollar. It is the most stable in the world, but once we lose that, we're ****ed. I remember like 10 years ago everyone thought Japan was gonna take over but that was short lived as well.

[Euroholic]

what helps India is a highly educated population, with a significant work ethic. Their constraint is their weak government and their infrastructure, which will eventually improve.

China's strength will eventually become their own unduing - military controlled form of government. As their society evolves, and becomes more enlightened, at some point, it seems highly probable, they can experience something similar to what the Soviet government experienced under Gorbachov. China cannot sustain itself on slave labor forever. And their centralized city planning is extremely inefficient. Whole cities are created, with extremely expensive skyscrapers basically uninhabited. China to a certain extent is squandering it's economic bonus.

You may be right and india does have a good work ethic. But i they are a long long way off be a millatry powerhouse. Maybe a economic but not military..

[CanisLupus]

Speaking of China's military might, reminds me of something. I've never taken the time to confirm this, and I'd say it's untrue, but my dad used to always say that China could march soldiers off a cliff four abreast, and never run out of soldiers.

Update: Just ran the numbers. Growth rate of 185k per day in 2013. I guess it's plausible. Four feet apart, one mile an hour, thats 127k in 24 hours. I think soldiers march a little closer to 4 mph though. Better change that to single file.

[Rwy]

Forcing an increase in wages itself is a temporary fix. What is required is price fixing and limiting of salaries/bonuses of the upper end of the corporate echelon. When a CEO is making 200x the money the average worker, in the same company, is making, somethings wrong. And no single person is worth the wages these guys have been making. It's actually showing many parallels to a feudal system except now we have this illusion that we're free.

And the American public really can't be held to blame either. It's not like we have the ability to revolt. Watch what will happen if you try. And so you can argue that we'll just vote these bad seeds in our government that have been bought and paid for by our wealthy oligarchs. But when the costs for even state assembly seat campaigns can sometimes run in the millions, that money has to come from somewhere. So everybody that is presented to us as a candidate IS working for the wealthy who are ruining America (and the western world for that matter) and not for the people. So how do the people make change?

Agreed. Those huge bonuses are paid out bc so much work is sent over seas to people willing to work for a dollar a day.

The US is not a country with a government anymore. Its a corrupt business always looking to make a profit. Kinda of funny we are in so much debt

[CanisLupus]

What could we have done differently to keep China from overtaking us economically?

They don't follow the environmental laws they help get passed, like we do. We don't tax trade enough anymore, so there's less incentive to keep manufacturing here. Unions have driven labor costs to unrealistically high numbers. I've heard of some pretty ridiculous wages for automobile workers. I think in general nobody in the US gets paid enough, especially skilled trades like construction, etc, but $70 an hour to work on an assembly line seems excessive. I think it's sad that we had it, and let it slip away. I, for one, was happy to be born in an exceptional country. Soon it won't be.

[DeniZen]

as much as people rail against welfare, immigration, social programs the truth is we're being wrecked from the top down. I saw a news piece last week stating US Boards of Directors pay is 3500 times more than the average income. The average for other industrialized countries was 1200x.

All these billionaires and politicians sit on the boards of many different corporations, and vote for the compensation packages for each other. So they bleed these companies to point of having a profound effect on the bottom line. So they start outsourcing to asia.

So it 8 fat cats a board of directors are collecting 10mil per year..thats 80 million bucks. (plus these guys usually sit on the boards of several corporations). If they were only collecting the global average, the savings would be about 55 million per year. That would hire hundreds, maybe thousands of Americans. And that's just one company!

[CanisLupus]

as much as people rail against welfare, immigration, social programs the truth is we're being wrecked from the top down. I saw a news piece last week stating US Boards of Directors pay is 3500 times more than the average income. The average for other industrialized countries was 1200x.

All these billionaires and politicians sit on the boards of many different corporations, and vote for the compensation packages for each other. So they bleed these companies to point of having a profound effect on the bottom line. So they start outsourcing to asia.

So it 8 fat cats a board of directors are collecting 10mil per year..thats 80 million bucks. (plus these guys usually sit on the boards of several corporations). If they were only collecting the global average, the savings would be about 55 million per year. That would hire hundreds, maybe thousands of Americans. And that's just one company!

I won't say I disagree completely. Nobody I've ever met was worth 1,000 times what I am, in profit generation or otherwise. 5 times? Maybe. I honestly think that I could make better decisions than at least half of the big CEO's, if given the opportunity.
My issue is this: What's your solution? Income caps? That's no longer a free society. You can't tell people "Do as good as you can, but not too good, or we'll punish you." And I guarantee once I hit that cap, I'm not giving my time away. That's all you'll get from me.

What's really messed up, is that the company actually sees the value in paying any one employee that much. Most of these CEO's that get traded around like quarterbacks are just professional con men. They've made a good call or two in the past, or at least made it look like it was, and companies think they're worth billions to them. I watched them come in and restructure a major healthcare IT company that ran pretty smoothly, to the point that there was no way they could retain their customer base. Now, until it failed, I'm sure the profits went up, albeit temporarily. That didn't keep the CEO from making $3 mil salary with a $5M bonus, though.

[Rwy]

They don't want to make good decisions. Its all about keeping their pockets fat

[Hoggage_54]

[lovbyts]

as much as people rail against welfare, immigration, social programs the truth is we're being wrecked from the top down. I saw a news piece last week stating US Boards of Directors pay is 3500 times more than the average income. The average for other industrialized countries was 1200x.

All these billionaires and politicians sit on the boards of many different corporations, and vote for the compensation packages for each other. So they bleed these companies to point of having a profound effect on the bottom line. So they start outsourcing to asia.

So it 8 fat cats a board of directors are collecting 10mil per year..thats 80 million bucks. (plus these guys usually sit on the boards of several corporations). If they were only collecting the global average, the savings would be about 55 million per year. That would hire hundreds, maybe thousands of Americans. And that's just one company!

But then its ok for guys out of the hood making the same amount or more playing sports? That we could easily remedy if we wanted.

[Metalject]

Some of the responses in this thread, and you hear them all the time from people complaining elsewhere, imply that there is a set amount of money available. Do you guys honestly think there is only a set amount of money/wealth available? As in if money were a pizza there are only 10 slices and some have more slices. Could you not simply make more pizzas? Of course you could, and wealth is no different.