Becoming a Lib

**Armykid93** · 03-27-2016, 06:24 PM

Ertarian

Libertarian

Yes, as I've gotten older (still not that old I know) I've become more and more of a moderate, that is how I view myself. Personal and financial freedom for everybody. I have come to the personal conclusion that, stay with me here, if we stay the fvck out of each other's personal and financial lives.......we could all be happy. Let's get the government out of people's lives.

You want to smoke weed? Go for it.
Want to marry a member of the same sex? Go for it!
Want to go to church? Do it!
The issues go on and on that this kind of viewpoint would resolve.

I don't think it will ever happen, to many people need to be in everybody else's damn business. But that's beside the point.

I totally understand that we still need government, I'm not an anarchist. I'm just saying the bare minimum.

Anybody else feel this way? The last 15 years has seen more rapid growth in unconstitutional government. I think it's nuts.

**Euroholic** · 03-27-2016, 06:56 PM

I agree but also have to disagree.

People should be allowed a lot more freedoms that a deemed illegal but also at the same time you cant just allow people to do anything so long as they are not bothering anyone. A society needs a line of social behaviour what is tolerable and what is not tolerable. Because eventually overtime people become more and more less intuned with how people should act towards one another. Just think not too long ago you could go to jail for living a homosexual lifestyle. Now today they are classed as equal citizens and some of them even want to redefine the meaning of marriage so they can marry. This was unimaginable decades ago but today it is were society is at/moving towards. Marrying ones mum is unimagible in this current point in time. But imagine in 50 years it could be excepted? Why not? 2 consenting adults they are not harming anyone if you change the rules for one subculture Why not another? Again this is why rules must be made on what is expectable social behaviour and stuck with. Because there is always one subculture out there who feels hard done by.
Alot of people need to be lead. Alot don't know how to look after themselves

**Armykid93** · 03-27-2016, 06:58 PM

The problem is your making yourself an arbitrator of morality. A God more or less. Who are you to say what is and is not acceptable?

**Euroholic** · 03-27-2016, 07:02 PM

I never said i was. I said society needs a set of rules. This is why we have government and referendums. The people vote for the canditate who they feel will represent the values of the society they live in. Moral behaviour belongs to the people but also must be enforced by government legislature

**Armykid93** · 03-27-2016, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Euroholic

I never said i was. I said society needs a set of rules. This is why we have government and referendums. The people vote for the canditate who they feel will represent the values of the society they live in. Moral behaviour belongs to the people but also must be enforced by government legislature

That is what your doing. Your saying there's a line. Who's fit to draw it?

Government should facilitate free life and protection from invasion.

Using your example of marrying your mom. Does it change your life in any way?

**Euroholic** · 03-27-2016, 07:42 PM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

That is what your doing. Your saying there's a line. Who's fit to draw it?

Government should facilitate free life and protection from invasion.

Using your example of marrying your mom. Does it change your life in any way?

The line should be drawn by a majority vote of born citizens under a referendum. Ask the populous a series of questions about societies morality. And add the results to the consituation and not allowed another vote on the matter. Marrying ones mother sets a bad example about marrige to newer generations would you not say? So over time they will think its normal and keep doing it and even worse

Another example
Lets say i am a 83 year old man and i really want to marry a 12 year old boy and the boy and his parents want me to marry him also. Should we not be allowed? Were not hurting anyone?

You change the laws for one group the rest of them come out of the woods. I don't want to live in a world were one can marry there blood relatives or pre Pubescents. The point im trying to make is society keeps chamging what is expectable. TO WHAT END?

**Armykid93** · 03-27-2016, 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by Euroholic

The line should be drawn by a majority vote of born citizens under a referendum. Ask the populous a series of questions about societies morality. And add the results to the consituation and not allowed another vote on the matter. Marrying ones mother sets a bad example about marrige to newer generations would you not say? So over time they will think its normal and keep doing it and even worse Another example Lets say i am a 83 year old man and i really want to marry a 12 year old boy and the boy and his parents want me to marry him also. Should we not be allowed? Were not hurting anyone? You change the laws for one group the rest of them come out of the woods. I don't want to live in a world were one can marry there blood relatives or pre Pubescents. The point im trying to make is society keeps chamging what is expectable. TO WHAT END?

Your not answering the question of why you should be the arbitrator of morality or even a majority of people should be. Why should you control what goes on in my life, even if I am going against a majority of what people believe.

Your example is moot. 12 year olds can't consent.

**Euroholic** · 03-27-2016, 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

Your not answering the question of why you should be the arbitrator of morality or even a majority of people should be. Why should you control what goes on in my life, even if I am going against a majority of what people believe.

Your example is moot. 12 year olds can't consent.

Because that is what civil society is about mate. Everyone to some degree impacts on each other in someway. So we need a set of guidlines that we can all agree will be the best way to lead the nation and its people into the future. Something that we can agree is acceptable. Appereance and the way you present your self is everything.

Lets just say if i owned a shop and a man come in wearing a dress. I would tell him to get out of my store because your associating my business with freaks. Which is bad for public image

**lovbyts** · 03-28-2016, 02:51 AM

The problem is there are those who will always run amuck. Like you said we dont want anarchy. Yes I believe and have always that government has gone FAR to far on deciding what is right, wrong or legal and instead of making more laws we need to make a lot less. Instead each state makes 100s if not 1000s of new laws each hear and #1 being, ignorance (not knowing) of the law is no excuse.

**lovbyts** · 03-28-2016, 02:54 AM

Originally Posted by Euroholic

Because that is what civil society is about mate. Everyone to some degree impacts on each other in someway. So we need a set of guidlines that we can all agree will be the best way to lead the nation and its people into the future. Something that we can agree is acceptable. Appereance and the way you present your self is everything.

Lets just say if i owned a shop and a man come in wearing a dress. I would tell him to get out of my store because your associating my business with freaks. Which is bad for public image

So if these guys came into your shop you would tell them to leave?

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**Armykid93** · 03-28-2016, 08:33 AM

Originally Posted by Euroholic

Because that is what civil society is about mate. Everyone to some degree impacts on each other in someway. So we need a set of guidlines that we can all agree will be the best way to lead the nation and its people into the future. Something that we can agree is acceptable. Appereance and the way you present your self is everything. Lets just say if i owned a shop and a man come in wearing a dress. I would tell him to get out of my store because your associating my business with freaks. Which is bad for public image

And you should be able to turn anyone away from your business. For ANY reason. Just like I'm saying you shouldn't have the right to tell someone not to wear a dress, you also shouldn't have to serve them if you don't like them. It's not the governments business to force you to serve anyone.

If your not gonna answer the question then I'm done discussing it with you. Saying over and over "society needs rules", isn't an answer.

BG · 03-28-2016, 10:03 AM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

Ertarian

Libertarian

Yes, as I've gotten older (still not that old I know) I've become more and more of a moderate, that is how I view myself. Personal and financial freedom for everybody. I have come to the personal conclusion that, stay with me here, if we stay the fvck out of each other's personal and financial lives.......we could all be happy. Let's get the government out of people's lives.

You want to smoke weed? Go for it.
Want to marry a member of the same sex? Go for it!
Want to go to church? Do it!
The issues go on and on that this kind of viewpoint would resolve.

I don't think it will ever happen, to many people need to be in everybody else's damn business. But that's beside the point.

I totally understand that we still need government, I'm not an anarchist. I'm just saying the bare minimum.

Anybody else feel this way? The last 15 years has seen more rapid growth in unconstitutional government. I think it's nuts.

This wouldn't work because people need to be held to higher morals. If anything goes it would never end and spin out of control. This is what has already started with the Obama administration.

BG · 03-28-2016, 10:12 AM

Now look at what we are going to get for our next president

**bartman314** · 03-28-2016, 05:13 PM

i agree with the op. i too am becoming more libertarian as i age - and qualified to post in the over 40 forum!

i also agree society needs laws, to preserve the freedoms that we increasingly take for granted. the role of government is PROPER regulation and administration of law. i'll bet we all see proper a little bit differently, but i'll bet most of us here would like to see smaller, less invasive government.

our current government (all branches) are either not capable or too far reaching. i remember the days (remember i'm old), where there was actually compromise so that the country could actually move forward.

**musclestack** · 03-28-2016, 08:13 PM

Agree with OP as well. I've been a Libertarian at heart for a while now (although not registered as one). The Libertarian party's principles, put simply, is that government should exist only to protect life, liberty, and property. As long as you're not harming another individual, do as you wish. This is exactly the way it should be, in my opinion.

"Don't Tread On Me"

**dk94** · 03-28-2016, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by Euroholic

The line should be drawn by a majority vote of born citizens under a referendum. Ask the populous a series of questions about societies morality. And add the results to the consituation and not allowed another vote on the matter. Marrying ones mother sets a bad example about marrige to newer generations would you not say? So over time they will think its normal and keep doing it and even worse

Another example
Lets say i am a 83 year old man and i really want to marry a 12 year old boy and the boy and his parents want me to marry him also. Should we not be allowed? Were not hurting anyone?

You change the laws for one group the rest of them come out of the woods. I don't want to live in a world were one can marry there blood relatives or pre Pubescents. The point im trying to make is society keeps chamging what is expectable. TO WHAT END?

A gang rape is an example of the democracy you're referring to

**dk94** · 03-28-2016, 08:36 PM

Ive become libertarian starting at about my mid 20s.

No body should be in prison for what they had in their pockets, prisons are overflowing with people convicted of victimless crimes. This is not right, not just for the imprisoned but for the tax payers the have to support them.

**lovbyts** · 03-29-2016, 01:52 AM

Originally Posted by dk94

Ive become libertarian starting at about my mid 20s.

No body should be in prison for what they had in their pockets, prisons are overflowing with people convicted of victimless crimes. This is not right, not just for the imprisoned but for the tax payers the have to support them.

Most of that is a straw man argument put on by the far left. Not libertarian but Liberals. There is a BIG difference between the two, almost polar opposites really.

Those who are in jail for recreational substances 99.99% of them plea bargained down from a MUCH higher crime such as having an illegal weapon, breaking and entering, aggravated assault. Dont get caught up in the left media hype.

**Armykid93** · 03-29-2016, 08:25 AM

Glad I'm not crazy lol, it seems like so few people identify as anything but a republican or democrat. I'm tired of the two party
Political BS.

**Armykid93** · 03-29-2016, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Most of that is a straw man argument put on by the far left. Not libertarian but Liberals. There is a BIG difference between the two, almost polar opposites really. Those who are in jail for recreational substances 99.99% of them plea bargained down from a MUCH higher crime such as having an illegal weapon, breaking and entering, aggravated assault. Dont get caught up in the left media hype.

I didn't know that. Makes sense, definitely gonna do some more research on that one.

**bsh** · 03-29-2016, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

Glad I'm not crazy lol, it seems like so few people identify as anything but a republican or democrat. I'm tired of the two party Political BS.

their all the same monster no matter what flag they wave! Dirtbags and liars...

I happen to be somewhat conservative as far as business is conceded I will say, but I could care less what other ppl do in their personal lives... The problem in the USA is we try to legislate morality! That just doesn't work anymore...

**lovbyts** · 03-29-2016, 02:59 PM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

I didn't know that. Makes sense, definitely gonna do some more research on that one.

You can find most people's original charges online. Yeah it took me a while to figure that one out also. All sounds good, makes sense until you get into the facts. Obama has planned to release!pardon thousands of these people when he leaves office. Bad idea.

**bsh** · 03-29-2016, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

You can find most people's original charges online. Yeah it took me a while to figure that one out also. All sounds good, makes sense until you get into the facts. Obama has planned to release!pardon thousands of these people when he leaves office. Bad idea.

well of course he will... And they will all vote for the democratic nominee! Problem today is there are more taking them givin'.... Like myself, I'm a small business owner! Nobody is stupid enough to cut the tit off themselves! Well, maybe w/ the exception of my ex! Lolhahahahahahaha... So this is just like a bad played out marriage unfortunately

**dk94** · 03-29-2016, 07:28 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Most of that is a straw man argument put on by the far left. Not libertarian but Liberals. There is a BIG difference between the two, almost polar opposites really.

Those who are in jail for recreational substances 99.99% of them plea bargained down from a MUCH higher crime such as having an illegal weapon, breaking and entering, aggravated assault. Dont get caught up in the left media hype.

If there wasnt a war on drugs then there wouldnt even be the higher charges for them to plead down from. Take the profit away from criminals, we all know prohibition doesnt work.

**bsh** · 03-29-2016, 08:40 PM

Originally Posted by dk94

If there wasnt a war on drugs then there wouldnt even be the higher charges for them to plead down from. Take the profit away from criminals, we all know prohibition doesnt work.

we have created a industry!!! We incarnate more ppl then anyone on the planet! It's too big to not be stuffing new ppl into!! Where would all the ppl that work in the industry go if it were to go away?? It's like a habit that constantly needs to be feed... Don't see it changing anytime soon, sad to say

**lovbyts** · 03-29-2016, 09:08 PM

Originally Posted by dk94

If there wasnt a war on drugs then there wouldnt even be the higher charges for them to plead down from. Take the profit away from criminals, we all know prohibition doesnt work.

I understand what you are saying but disagree. There would still be criminals/thrives. Prostitution is jot the oldest trade, Robert and murder is.

**dk94** · 04-01-2016, 11:14 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

I understand what you are saying but disagree. There would still be criminals/thrives. Prostitution is jot the oldest trade, Robert and murder is.

Prostitution should be completely legal as well, its a victimless crime. Well, the prohibition and violence brought into it can victimize the workers but that aspect of it would largely go away if legalized. Sex workers could seek help from violence without fear of reprisal etc.. And of course there would still be criminals, there always will be but we could stop incarcerating people for victimless crimes

**Euroholic** · 04-01-2016, 11:47 PM

Originally Posted by dk94

Prostitution should be completely legal as well, its a victimless crime. Well, the prohibition and violence brought into it can victimize the workers but that aspect of it would largely go away if legalized. Sex workers could seek help from violence without fear of reprisal etc.. And of course there would still be criminals, there always will be but we could stop incarcerating people for victimless crimes

is it not legal there? I thought it was. Its legal here if you register. They have a prostitution licensing authority. They advertise in the back of the newspaper you can get one delivered quicker then you can a pizza. Its respectable work, if your good you can make thousands a day. i think the only reason it was illegal was due to taxation. A Lot of sex workers work in the cash economy and do not report their incomes. But if you legitimise and regulate the industry things will run alot more safely.

**lovbyts** · 04-02-2016, 02:17 AM

It's only legal in one state in the US, Nevada. Technically only in one country but not enforced. It's legal in parts of Canada also but not everywhere.

**songdog** · 04-03-2016, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by BG

Now look at what we are going to get for our next president

TRUMP I hope!

**Armykid93** · 04-03-2016, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by songdog

TRUMP I hope!

The only people I would have voted for will likely never get enough support to earn the nomination. There are certainly benefits to Trump, but he's not the right person in my opinion.

**dk94** · 04-03-2016, 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

The only people I would have voted for will likely never get enough support to earn the nomination. There are certainly benefits to Trump, but he's not the right person in my opinion.

i was hoping for rand but i knew he was a long shot.

**lovbyts** · 04-03-2016, 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Armykid93

The only people I would have voted for will likely never get enough support to earn the nomination. There are certainly benefits to Trump, but he's not the right person in my opinion.

Originally Posted by dk94

i was hoping for rand but i knew he was a long shot.

Just remember, you really dont want someone who you agree with everything on because they are most likely not telling the truth, only saying what people want to hear instead of letting you know the real person. You want the person who you think will do their best to actually do what they say instead of what we have had the last MANY years, especially the last 7 where you can count on him doing exactly the opposite of what he says every time.

**Armykid93** · 04-04-2016, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by dk94

i was hoping for rand but i knew he was a long shot.

Same here. Don't like him as much as his dad though.

**Armykid93** · 04-04-2016, 01:18 PM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

Just remember, you really dont want someone who you agree with everything on because they are most likely not telling the truth, only saying what people want to hear instead of letting you know the real person. You want the person who you think will do their best to actually do what they say instead of what we have had the last MANY years, especially the last 7 where you can count on him doing exactly the opposite of what he says every time.

Fair enough. Good assessment lol.