That's how the cookie Crumblys

[XnavyHMCS]

10 - 15 years, for charges which basically amounted to being an unfit parent.

What say you, esteemed members of the forum? (Come on guys, you gotta say something; this place is as dead as a cemetery; thank God for Reditt)

I am well aware that there is a substantial number of firearms owners, as well as 2A supporters, here of the forum; myself included. Where do we stand on the practice of criminally charging the parents of a minor who commits an act of violence with a gun? I did a cursory search, as these trials were kicking off, and discovered that this is not the first time, in the history of American justice, when the parents of a shooter were charged.

Apparently, if I understand correctly:

These two shining examples of what NOT TO DO in parenting were not charged with the murders (logically); they were charged with manslaughter (and perhaps other charges?).
These two, apparently emptied their son's bank account upon learning of the boys role in the school shooting, and just prior to embarking on their brief flight from justice (not a criminal charge, but it speaks volumes to their character).
I urge anyone interested to listen to the mother's pre-sentencing speech to the court; her voice is literally dripping with contempt and an absence of remorse (IMO).
* Anything else anyone can add here...???

Opinions?
Views?
Any information you members can add (as I am in an obvious deficit of the facts pertaining to this case)?

[Cylon357]

10 - 15 years, for charges which basically amounted to being an unfit parent.

What say you, esteemed members of the forum? (Come on guys, you gotta say something; this place is as dead as a cemetery; thank God for Reditt)

I am well aware that there is a substantial number of firearms owners, as well as 2A supporters, here of the forum; myself included. Where do we stand on the practice of criminally charging the parents of a minor who commits an act of violence with a gun? I did a cursory search, as these trials were kicking off, and discovered that this is not the first time, in the history of American justice, when the parents of a shooter were charged.

Apparently, if I understand correctly:

These two shining examples of what NOT TO DO in parenting were not charged with the murders (logically); they were charged with manslaughter (and perhaps other charges?).
These two, apparently emptied their son's bank account upon learning of the boys role in the school shooting, and just prior to embarking on their brief flight from justice (not a criminal charge, but it speaks volumes to their character).
I urge anyone interested to listen to the mother's pre-sentencing speech to the court; her voice is literally dripping with contempt and an absence of remorse (IMO).
* Anything else anyone can add here...???

Opinions?
Views?
Any information you members can add (as I am in an obvious deficit of the facts pertaining to this case)?

I do not have enough facts in this case, so I can't speak to the specifics.

Generally speaking though, this seems like a slippery slope in the wrong direction. Charging parents because of the actions of their kids seems dangerous. Where does it end? Do we charge the manufacturer of the weapon, too? What about the supplier of the raw materials? Surely they hold some part in this.

If the consequences weren't so serious, then I would feel differently. Like, if there were a $50 dollar fine, then eh, I would say just pay it and move on. But that isn't the case here. The parents are getting time as if they were accomplices, as I have already indicated, I don't know the specifics well enough to say if that is warranted.

I recognize that the scope of punishment should not really factor into the determination of guilt. But, I also realize that humans are inherently efficient. We tend to not spend as much rational thought on something of little consequence, and more on things that have greater consequence.

For those that think "well, hell yeah, we need to make the parents responsible!", maybe that is appropriate sometimes. But those of us that are parents know that sometimes kids are just dumbasses and are going to do dumbass things, despite our best efforts.

Rando thoughts on a topic I know little about, but what's unusual about that? 😀

[wango]

Not being a lawyer or judge, I’m not sure if the charges were excessive imo.

I’ve included most of an article from today’s paper with facts I’ve seen on other articles in the past. There needs to be a serious investigation of that school and perhaps the school district’s policies in situations like that - and perhaps a series of suspensions of the staff involved and the administrators.

Also in todays paper was a mother who pushed her kids out of her moving car on the freeway - only topped by a recent court case here where a woman racing her SUV against her lover’s SUV (oh, she is still married and a mother) through an intersection at speeds over 70 mph and killing two other boys (sending one airborne nearly the length of a football field) and pleading innocent.

I think you need a license to be a parent.

Couldn’t post the pic.

[almostgone]

Not being a lawyer or judge, I’m not sure if the charges were excessive imo.

I’ve included most of an article from today’s paper with facts I’ve seen on other articles in the past. There needs to be a serious investigation of that school and perhaps the school district’s policies in situations like that - and perhaps a series of suspensions of the staff involved and the administrators.

Also in todays paper was a mother who pushed her kids out of her moving car on the freeway - only topped by a recent court case here where a woman racing her SUV against her lover’s SUV (oh, she is still married and a mother) through an intersection at speeds over 70 mph and killing two other boys (sending one airborne nearly the length of a football field) and pleading innocent.

I think you need a license to be a parent.

Couldn’t post the pic.

Sorry about the image upload malfunction,guys. The boards has been through a few burps and hiccups recently. *Admin* has notified IT.

[almostgone]

About all I can offer is I was raised in a household environment with firearms.....my mom's house, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

If I had done something so heinous as stealing a firearm belonging to family and shooting others with it in a non- defensive incident, my whole family would be right there saying " prosecute his ass for murder/attempted murder as an adult".

[kelkel]

I think you need a license to be a parent. .

Great line ........

[kelkel]

Tough one. No problems with firearms in the home at all but if and when "red flags" are detected (violence, aggressiveness, mental instability, etc) with a minor then it's definitely incumbent upon the owner/parents to secure said weapons. Regarding the amount of punishment, I've no clue whether it's appropriate or not.

[wango]

Tough one. No problems with firearms in the home at all but if and when "red flags" are detected (violence, aggressiveness, mental instability, etc) with a minor then it's definitely incumbent upon the owner/parents to secure said weapons. Regarding the amount of punishment, I've no clue whether it's appropriate or not.

Agreed. I have doubts that the drawing of the shooting that brought the parents to school that day to discuss it, was the first indication that something was wrong. But the obliviousness of parents these days is amazing.

What utterly astounds me is that the kid was allowed to stay in school and his back pack was not searched. As I stated earlier, the school needs investigating & was almost as liable as the parents.

[JTP$]

10 - 15 years, for charges which basically amounted to being an unfit parent.

What say you, esteemed members of the forum? (Come on guys, you gotta say something; this place is as dead as a cemetery; thank God for Reditt)

I am well aware that there is a substantial number of firearms owners, as well as 2A supporters, here of the forum; myself included. Where do we stand on the practice of criminally charging the parents of a minor who commits an act of violence with a gun? I did a cursory search, as these trials were kicking off, and discovered that this is not the first time, in the history of American justice, when the parents of a shooter were charged.

Apparently, if I understand correctly:

These two shining examples of what NOT TO DO in parenting were not charged with the murders (logically); they were charged with manslaughter (and perhaps other charges?).
These two, apparently emptied their son's bank account upon learning of the boys role in the school shooting, and just prior to embarking on their brief flight from justice (not a criminal charge, but it speaks volumes to their character).
I urge anyone interested to listen to the mother's pre-sentencing speech to the court; her voice is literally dripping with contempt and an absence of remorse (IMO).
* Anything else anyone can add here...???

Opinions?
Views?
Any information you members can add (as I am in an obvious deficit of the facts pertaining to this case)?

i dont know all of the details behind this latest conviction, but i strongly believe the powers that be are doing anything they can to destroy gun rights.

that being said, if a parent knows their child is showing signs of mental instability and expressing the desire to commit violent crimes then it would be irresponsible for that parent to simply give their kid a firearm. but if the parent owns firearms already, and the firearms are locked up in safes, but the kid manages to gain access regardless it would be wrong to charge the parent with criminal wrong doing.

About all I can offer is I was raised in a household environment with firearms.....my mom's house, my grandparents, aunts and uncles.

If I had done something so heinous as stealing a firearm belonging to family and shooting others with it in a non- defensive incident, my whole family would be right there saying " prosecute his ass for murder/attempted murder as an adult".

it has been the norm for many years for parents to own fireams and store them in easily accessible locations and the kids never steal the firearm then commit crimes with them. personally though, i feel i need to keep my firearms locked up in safes, and i dont even have kids.

i also think its wrong to criminally charge a parent for storing firearms in accessible locations which then leads to the firearm being stolen and used in the commission of a crime. if a kid steals a kitchen knife and stabs someone with it, we would not charge the parents with felonies.

[Honkey_Kong]

As far as my opinion on charging the parents go, and I have no idea if this is true in the case, but it depends on if there was negligence on the parents part. Like for instance if you have a kid, it's your responsibility as a gun owner to keep that child away from your guns unless it is under your explicit supervision and permission.

For instance, if you have and use gun safes. You can even get nightstand safes for quick access if an intruder comes in at night.

If they didn't have those thing or didn't use them then they should be charged with some sort of negligence or even a manslaughter charge.

Then there is the other aspect. Ultimately, until that child is 18, the parents are responsible for him. If he's showing signs of mental illness, they should've gotten him help immediately. I think there should be some sort of negligence charge if this is proven to be true too.

And finally, those parents are responsible for this kid. Because of their kid, somebody else is dead. There should be some sort of financial liability for the parents in a civil case after the criminal cases are over (and I'm sure there will be).

And in this case you mentioned, the parents made an attempt to hide money and evade authorities. At the very least that should be felony charges (in addition to charges regarding their kid murdering that other kid).

I'm pro-gun and against all gun legislation. But at the same time too, if you choose to own a gun you're also choosing to take on the responsibilities of owning them. And if because you didn't live up to your responsibility, somebody is dead (like in this case), you should be charged with something. I don't think murder is the right charge for the parents, but they should be charged with something.

[Mooseman33]

im very different on this. What i say will not be popular but it has to end.
I would execute the kids whole family.
Any school shooting, the entire family needs to be killed. There is no penalty for these kids who do this besides jail, shit here in parkland the kid got life, not even death.

evil only will fix itself, commit school shooting and know that your whole family will be burnt at the stake in ur front yard.
this kids mother is a cunt

[markwilliams]

Some think holding parents accountable could make folks more responsible with guns and parenting. But then again, it's not always clear how much sway parents have over teenagers, especially in these intense situations.

[XnavyHMCS]

im very different on this. What i say will not be popular but it has to end.
I would execute the kids whole family.
Any school shooting, the entire family needs to be killed. There is no penalty for these kids who do this besides jail, shit here in parkland the kid got life, not even death.

evil only will fix itself, commit school shooting and know that your whole family will be burnt at the stake in ur front yard.
this kids mother is a cunt

Sippenhgaft or Sippenhaftun: is a German term for the idea that a family or clan shares the responsibility for a crime or act committed by one of its members.

Interesting to see that this policy is alive and well somewhere.

The Moose is loose...!!!

I haven't had to time to get back to this thread, as I have been busy mourning the our nation's tragic lose of James Orenthal (OJ) Simpson...

[Cuz]

Sippenhgaft or Sippenhaftun: is a German term for the idea that a family or clan shares the responsibility for a crime or act committed by one of its members.

Interesting to see that this policy is alive and well somewhere.

The Moose is loose...!!!

I haven't had to time to get back to this thread, as I have been busy mourning the our nation's tragic lose of James Orenthal (OJ) Simpson...

Yeah, ive been mourning that too. Really having a hard time dealing with such a loss from such a historic legendary figure of a man. Im coping, buts its been hell….may go out and buy a bronco in remembrance