If you plan to vote in 2004, this may be of interest to you...

[BigMike J]

Excuse me? What is your problem? I asked you a question and did not flame you so there is NO REASON for your response.

I DID NOT FLAME YOU EITHER, ALL I SAID WAS "SHUT YOUR FUCKING PIEHOLE"

[navydevildoc]

Yea especially when Clinton was a DRAFT DODGER OVER IN EUROPE DURING THE VIETNAM WAR! GREAT PRESIDENT. He was a fucking coward.

Because he stood firm on his beliefs? God fucking forbid a man speaks his mind and then follows thru with action. This is not cowardice.

Cowardice is what W did. Join the Air National Guard, never get activated and then acted like this counted as quality military service during the war. If we wanted to be in the war and "protect our country" he would have joined active duty and gone! That's what my Dad did (Marines) and two uncles (Army and Navy). What was stopping Bush?

[symatech]

Syamatech-let me elaborate for you, I did not mean that we should have "attacked Irag a long time ago", but rather push Hussein out of power simply because he did pose a potential threat however weak.

I do want to stress that i did not actually mean "attack iraq"

i am neither rep nor dem, but i do have a question. How do you think if elected Al Gore would have handled 9/11? I am not so sure he has any balls to do anything.

GO ARNY

i dont know. nobody knows. I'd like to assume he wouldnt go about attacking countries that had nothing to do about it though. maybe he would have kept looking for osama instead of giving up when we couldnt find him and shift the blame to sadam instead. but whose to say.

Let me make this clear also. Gore would have been a shitty president. But at least the man is educated.

[Carlos_E]

I DID NOT FLAME YOU EITHER, ALL I SAID WAS "SHUT YOUR FUCKING PIEHOLE"

I asked you a question and this is how you respond? APPARENTLY YOU'RE JUST AN ASSHOLE. How old are you? You're showing your maturity level with that kind of a response, that of a child. Grow the hell up.

[BigMike J]

Carlos i am 25 yrs old thank you for asking. I did not mean to offend you by saying,"shut your fucking piehole"

If the word Piehole offends, i will be more then happy to use another word in place of it. How about trap or mole hole?

I might have just woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning, this happens sometimes. In the future for your satisfaction i will try harder to wake up on the right side of the bed.

[bermich]

The economy is up 3.3 percent. With ALL the shit that has happened, it is AMAZING that the economy is still strong after all the middle east shit.

FUCKING AN INTERN AS A PRESIENT??
Um let me say this: IT IS NOT HIS PERSONAL LIFE.
Once you are elected president: YOU NO LONGER HAVE A PERSONAL LIFE. Everything you do as president reflects on AMERICA. You know this when you run. You need to show class. NOT FUCK AN INTERN.
This intern could be a spy for China or some other country and Clinton is out showing her around and yaking to her and fucking her. HOW THE FUCK IS THAT JUST BETWEEN HIM AND HIS WIFE? That has to do with all of AMERICA.

ANY COUNTRY that murders hundreds of thousandss of people just for disagreeing with his policies needs to be over thrown. That being IRAQ

Any country that attacks US for no reason needs to be attacked AFGAN.

See. There are always ways of overlooking what you dont wanna see. You justify one thing and slam the same thing done by another. CLINTON being a draft dodger: Oh but he spoke his mind so commend him. If Bush dodged the draft you would have called him a coward.
The reason I say that is a fucked up list is because it is HYPOCRITICAL. If it actually had some truth to it and was in retrospect to actually facts and other presidents then I would say good post

But this is a fuckin retarded list that got everyone in an uproar. Im sure it will hit 100 posts with dem and repub bicker.
Just shows the thinking behind the hippy tree hugging war hating people.
Im sure we shouldnt have attacked JAPAN after Pearl harbor either cause that raised our defense spending also....

[navydevildoc]

OK, enough of this bickering already. Blame the Libra in me, but I wanted to see how much of this was bull and how much was true. All sources I quote are either government agencies or well known news sources i.e. CNN.

-----

I spent the US surplus and bankrupted the US Treasury. (True. Although Bankrupt is a harsh word that's pretty misleading. Already covered... see above post.)

I shattered the record for the biggest annual deficit in history. (True. http://www.house.gov/budget/cbochartpak082604.pdf)

I set an economic record for the most personal bankruptcies filed in any 12 month period. (Maybe. May not be the highest, but it's higher than the last few years. http://www.uscourts.gov/judiciary200...s/f00jun01.pdf)

I set all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the stock market. (Misleading. The Dow, S&P 500, and NASDAQ Composite all took nose dives after 9/11. However, you can't really blame Bush for this.)

I attacked and took over two countries. (True. I don't think anyone needs refs for this. Now, it doesn't say why, so this is really inflammatory.)

I am the first president in decades to execute a federal prisoner. (Wrong. David Paul Hammer was executed on Clinton's watch)

I am the first president in US history to enter office with a criminal record. (Maybe. Don't know about other Presidents, but Bush was found guilty of DUI back in the day.)

In my first year in office I set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in US history. (Don't know. There is no web site I can find that lists this stuff.)

After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, I presided over the worst security failure in US history. (True. Bush was in Crawford, TX for a month right before September 11. http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/...bush.crawford/)

In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their jobs. (Worse. It is actually closer to 3 million.
From the Department of Labor, June 2001: 6.8 mil unemployed. June 2003: 9.6 mil.)

I set the all-time record for most real estate foreclosures in a 12-month period. (Don't know. Who keeps this info? Commerce? Census? Labor? FTC?)

I set the record for the fewest press conferences of any president, since the advent of TV. (Don't know. Also, who cares?)

I signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any other US president in history. (Huh? Hmmm... since you can only amend the consitution by the states ratifing the change, and the last one was in 1992 regarding the pay for congress, I have NO idea what this is about. Constitutional Amendments are BIG deals. 1st Amemdment, free speech, ring a bell?)

I presided over the biggest energy crises in US history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed. (Huh? This is refering to Enron, I think.)

I cut health care benefits for war veterans. (True. 2004 Budget. Check it out.)

I set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million >people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind. (Don't know. Hmmm, could find nothing about this.)

I dissolved more international treaties than any president in US history. (Don't know. Hmmm... the only one I know of is the ICBM Treaty)

I've made my presidency the most secretive and unaccountable of any in US history. (Huh? Facts?)

Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in US history. The poorest multimillionaire, Condoleeza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her. (True, until Chevron renamed it. http://multinationalmonitor.org/mm20...ne01names.html)

I am the first president in US history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously struggle against bankruptcy. (Don't know. Well, I only speak for California, and we have MAJOR issues. Your state's milage may vary. The biggest squabble has been over costs for Homeland Defense.)

I presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud in any market in any country in the history of the world. (Huh? Umm, does this mean Enron/Arthur Anderson? Worldcom? Who?)

I am the first president in US history to order a US attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation, and I did so against the will of the United Nations and the vast majority of the international community. (Yup. Iraq. Again, does not say why, so this is pretty inflammatory.)

I have created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States, called the "Bureau of Homeland Security". (True. Well, Department of Homeland Security. It is the biggest. http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/display?theme=13)

I set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any other president in US history. (True. Same as above deficit post)

I am the first president in US history to compel the United Nations to remove the US from the Human Rights Commission. (Don't know. The UN Human Rights Council web site is down. I do know that somehow Cuba was going to be the presiding country, which is quite a laugh.)

I am the first president in US history to have the United Nations remove the US from the Elections Monitoring Board. (Don't know. The UN Human Rights Council web site is down.)

I removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in US history. (Huh? Ummm, considering the checks and balances are part of the constitution, that would be really slick to see!)

I withdrew from the World Court of Law. (Wrong. Actually, we never officially joined it.)

I refused to allow inspectors access to US prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions. (True. The US Military would not let Red Cross Workers see Iraqi POWs at Baghdad Airport. Actually, they denied their existence. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/inter...963108,00.html)

I am the first president in US history to refuse United Nations election inspectors access during the 2002 US elections. (Maybe. I found lots of rhetoric that the UN should monitor, but nothing saying they were refused or even tried.)

I am the all-time US (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations. (True. This is a well known fact. W is a master at fundraising.)

The biggest lifetime contributor to my campaign, who is also one of my best friends, presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history [Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation]. (Don't know. That would take WAY too much research, and I have better things to do.)

I spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in US history. (Maybe. But who cares? The president represents the people of the USA to the world community. So what if he wants a pulse of what we think?

I am the first president to run and hide when the US came under attack [and then lied,saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1]. (Misleading. First of all, the problem was that the Secret Service thought that AF1 might be a target. Second, everyone needs to remember that the President has the awesome responsibility of launching a counter-attack should our nation be in grave danger. I have NO problem with him flying to Strategic Air Command HQ in Nebraska. He was back in Washington that night anyway.)

I am the first US president to establish a secret shadow government. (Wrong. Google "Mount Weather" and see that we have had that going for a long time.)

I took the world's sympathy for the US after 9/11, and in less than a year made the US the most resented country in the world [possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in US and world history]. (Huh? How about some specifics? "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.")

I am the first US president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability. (Misleading. It was actually 45%. 76% merely "disliked" him. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/5253268.htm)

I changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. (Don't know. If someone wants to search THOMAS for this, go right ahead.)

I set the all-time record for the number of administration appointees who violated US law by not selling their huge investments in corporations bidding for gov't contracts. (Don't know. I know that there is a lot of Big Oil interest there, but don't know how much.)

I have removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in US history. (Maybe. I know the PATRIOT Act stinks so bad that even congress is thinking about repealing parts of it.)

I entered office with the strongest economy in US history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down. (Misleading. A huge chunk of that has to do with the 9/11 Attack. But, the economy as a whole was in good shape when he took office.)

[Dude-Man]

Ya know, you might want to make sure you at least have the name right before you start slamming it... It's the North AMERICAN Free Trade Agreement... Hence USA, Canada, Mexico.

You are thinking of the North Atlantic Treaty Organazation, better known as NATO.

I don't care what the fuck its name is. It's causing the companies owned by my friends' parents to go out of business. FUCK that. Big mistake by Bill.

[bermich]

CNN. That explains it. Communist News Network.

The MOST DEMOCRATIC NETWORK in history trying to mask itself as a neutral news station.

[wrstlr69sdnl]

Screw Bush Vote arny for president LEGALIZE GEAR

[navydevildoc]

CNN. That explains it. Communist News Network.

The MOST DEMOCRATIC NETWORK in history trying to mask itself as a neutral news station.

Huh? OK, so if I found the same ariticles on Fox news you would believe them at that point? Bro, that's kinda short sighted, don't you think? Yes, most of the news networks have a liberal slant. But at least they don't call themselves "Fair and Balanced"! Man, some people just can't be pleased! I went thru all that to set the record straight on that crap, and not only that, only ONE of the refs was to CNN, which had to do with the president being in crawford for a month! How do you spin where the president is? That's physics bro. Either his molecules are in Washington or they are in Texas.

[BigMike J]

Navy nice little bit of research you did there bro

[BigMike J]

CNN. That explains it. Communist News Network.

The MOST DEMOCRATIC NETWORK in history trying to mask itself as a neutral news station.

that's some funny shit

[bermich]

Huh? OK, so if I found the same ariticles on Fox news you would believe them at that point? Bro, that's kinda short sighted, don't you think? Yes, most of the news networks have a liberal slant. But at least they don't call themselves "Fair and Balanced"! Man, some people just can't be pleased! I went thru all that to set the record straight on that crap, and not only that, only ONE of the refs was to CNN, which had to do with the president being in crawford for a month! How do you spin where the president is? That's physics bro. Either his molecules are in Washington or they are in Texas.

NO NO. I dont think I was referring to your post with CNN. I think I was on page 1 and didnt know there was a page 2.
Im glad you posted all of that. Made this thread a little more enjoyable and more EDUCATIONAL.

Do one on CLINTON NOW. That would be cool.
Add him selling secrets to china and how he and his administration were always snorting cocaine and all that bullshit.
Also how they took all the Ws out of the keyboards when Bush entered office

[Calipso]

NO NO. I dont think I was referring to your post with CNN. I think I was on page 1 and didnt know there was a page 2.
Im glad you posted all of that. Made this thread a little more enjoyable and more EDUCATIONAL.

Do one on CLINTON NOW. That would be cool.
Add him selling secrets to china and how he and his administration were always snorting cocaine and all that bullshit.
Also how they took all the Ws out of the keyboards when Bush entered office

Bermich has now become my spokes person. I don't like politics and don't like having to write a 3 page essay on how I feel. Clinton and his party were immature taking out the W's leaving the white house.

If your the President you have no private life.

If you want to believe what Fox, CNN, NBC, ABC, The Cartoon Network, Cinemax, HBO tells you then fine. Be another person that gets told what to think.

Facts speak louder than words. Bush got the shaft from Clinton's administration. He got their resession, he got their problems and he did a half-way decent job handling all the bullshit in the last 3 years. Hands down he gets my vote.

The only thing he needs to do is a put a "NO VACANCY" sign on the border, and legalize gear.

[Calipso]

Shit people all I gotta say is two words "AL GORE". That assclown would have appolgoized to the terrorists for making them feel so mad to attack us.

"It's America's fault you are poor, it's America's fault you attacked us. We appologize. Please lets have peace".

I'm middle class and republican. You liberals need to stop Bush bashing and concentrate on how to fix this fucking country.

There are alot more ways to fix a country than to insult and play the blame game on the President. Tell your local goverment (Representitives, Governor, etc) to step the fuck up and do something. Otherwise this country is gonna be in a world of shit the next few years.



I wish good ol' Gunnery Sgt. Hartman would run for president. He'd shape you maggots up.

[bigol'legs]

CNN.... thats a joke... I was doing cardio like 2 weeks ago and some clown had it turned to CNN. I hoped off the treadmill and changed it to FOX..." um I was watching that"... I said "MOVE TO RUSSIA YOU COMMI!!!" I dont think he liked it.

[hybrid]

you all know the rules about talking about politics and religion.

[Tock]

Clinton gave 140 pardons his last day of office. Although it is common for Presidents to grant a number of pardons before leaving office, as the details of Clinton's pardons unfolded (some given to campaign contributors, one to a cocaine trafficker, and one to fugitive Marc Rich) he was subject to severe and lingering criticism. -Wikipedia

You speak as if Clinton is the only one to ever do such a thing . . . sure, it sucks, but George Bush the First did the same damn thing before him. Don't know offhand if Reagan, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, Kennedy, Eisenhower, & etc granted last-day pardons, but if they did, it sucked.
As I recall, there were no Republican objections when Bush did it, don't know why, then, what's sauce for the goose can't be sauce for the gander.

Just watch, though . . . When George Bush the Second goes, he's gonna do the same damn thing.
--Tock

[Tock]

"Clinton had a budget surplus going for several years there, and thanks to him, the end of the US National Debt was actually in sight."

WHEN????? thats the funniest shit Ive EVER heard... never has the national debt gone positive.

Oh, please . . .
Look, there's a difference between the National Budget and the National Debt. The budget is done every year, and Congress approves (actually, the President submits a budget, and the Congress is supposed to approve it) a budget where there is either more spending than tax income, or more tax income than spending. When there's more spending than income over several years, you add up the annual deficits, and you get the total National Debt.
Ronald Reagan and George Bush the First generated the country's largest budget deficits, which sent the national debt skyrocketing
http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html
back in the 80's and early 90's. When Clinton took office, the budget deficit dropped like a couple of 160 lb dumbbells, and consequently, the National Debt decreased. There was still a debt, but it was considerably smaller in 2000 than it was in 1992 when he took office.
Now, Bush the Second is in office, and the budget deficit is skyrocketing, as is the national debt. What can I say? Republicans just can't manage money . . .
--Tock

[BUYLONGTERM]

Remember this. When Clinton took over, our economy was already on the rise. Just like when Bush took over, we were on a downward spiral. You cannot blame Bush for this. I think he is looking out for our best interest during some crazy times.

[Tock]

sorry democrats....bush has got my vote

For the life of me, I don't understand why people like us who like to do the stuff we do, can support politicians who pass laws to throw us AS users in jail . . .

My vote goes to the candidate who says we have the right not to be bothered by the gov't in our "pursuit of life, liberty, and happiness," as it says in the good book . . .

-Tock

[Tock]

Pathetic that a military man backs clinton. After he trimed the budget on the military and shut down bases ALL OVER america. Including major ones for the Navy in Orlando and on the other parts around the Gulf of mexico.

I'm voting Bush.

==================


Oh, no no no no no no . . . you can't pin the blame for the base shutdowns on Clinton. The guy you want to complain about is former Congressman Dick Armey (my former congressman) who's district was in the North Dallas suburbs. He had been pushing for base closings for years and years, in fact he made a lot of fuss about it in his campaigning in the district, which is full of rich, penny-pinching Republicans. When he schemed his way to the position of House Majority Leader (#2 position right after the Speaker), he used his power to push the base closing bill through the legislative process.
http://www.hackworth.com/7jun94.html

http://www.ntu.org/features/ntu_on_c...ud-HR2373.php3
. . . an excerpt:
"Then, in the late 1980s, under the leadership of a still somewhat obscure Representative from Texas named Dick Armey, the Congress adopted the BRAC (Base Realignment and Closure) process, whereby an independent commission would select sites for closing. The idea of government decisions made by independent authorities can be traced to the Progressive era and reflects the thoughts of Chester Bowles who once said that, “government is too big and important to be left to the politicians.”[3]

Besides getting a list of recommendations from an independent commission, the BRAC process has had another very unique aspect – all recommendations have to be either accepted as a whole by Congress or rejected – no logrolling is allowed. Thus, legislators whose districts are adversely impacted cannot trade votes with other legislators on other issues to get their districts exempted.

Congressman Armey was able to win passage of this legislation and we have had four rounds of base closings over the ensuing years. The Defense Department estimates that taxpayers are currently saving $6 billion per year because of these four BRAC rounds.[4] Those savings make a good argument for further rounds of the BRAC process and for adoption of this legislation."


So hey, keep in mind that Congress had to pass legislation to close the military bases; Clinton signed only what the Republican House Leadership pushed through . . . you wanna blame someone, there's enough blame to spread around to both parties.
Personally, it seemed like a good idea to me, about the smartest thing Dick Armey ever did . . . the whole purpose was to save taxpayer $$$ by eliminating needless duplication. Chances are there are more bases that need to be shut down . . .

--Tock

[Tock]

[QUOTE=Calipso]

![\QUOTE]

Yea especially when Clinton was a DRAFT DODGER OVER IN EUROPE DURING THE VIETNAM WAR! GREAT PRESIDENT. He was a fucking coward. Precious Billy boy had to run outta the US once they started the draft. No better than the guys who ran to canada or fell down a flight of stairs to break their legs to avoid being drafted.

============


Ok . . .
Ever hear anyone say the Vietnam War was a good idea? Geez, even McNamara said it was a big fuckin' mistake. Seems to me that Clinton showed better sense than the politicans at the time by not wanting to mess with it.

Anyone who blindly does what the government tells him to do is an idiot. Clinton may have been an idiot in some respects, but not in that one . . .
--Tock

[Dude-Man]

============


Ok . . .
Ever hear anyone say the Vietnam War was a good idea? Geez, even McNamara said it was a big fuckin' mistake. Seems to me that Clinton showed better sense than the politicans at the time by not wanting to mess with it.

Anyone who blindly does what the government tells him to do is an idiot. Clinton may have been an idiot in some respects, but not in that one . . .
--Tock

There's only three things that the US asks of its citizens. To pay your taxes, to obey the laws, and if you're drafted to serve.

Is it just me that thinks these three things are small prices to pay to live in the greatest nation in the world?

And to you canadians, it's just too cold up there. Sorry.

[Matty]

Hopefully there are those who are not so blinded by partisanship that they can recognize when something is horribly wrong. This is not about Clinton, this is about what makes sense. This is not about Republican vs. Democrat, Liberal vs. Conservative. This is about examining the issues and asking yourselves honestly if anything has improved under Bush's watch. Deficit? Unemployment? Foreign Policy? Environment? Education? Health care? Energy? National Security? Social Security? Economy?

Well, have things improved or gotten worse?

[BigMike J]

i would have to say that the grand majority has gotten worse.

[Da Bull]

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. One thing Clinton DID get right is the budget.

http://w3.access.gpo.gov/usbudget/fy2001/guide04.html

In 1998 the budget was in the black. In 2001, when Bush took office, it was still in the black running off the budget Clinton pushed thru. You can even see the projected budget surplus. But OOPS... we elected Bush. Now we have the largest defecit spending in recent memory.

Get you facts straight before you post!!!

I'm not backing Clinton or Bush,but as a pro stock daytrader for years,some of you guys don't have any idea about economics.navydev I salute you.You seem to have a grip on what went down.Clinton nor Bush had anything to do with the stock market colapse.It was greedy mother fuckers on Wallstreet that colapsed the market.They drove the prices to insane amounts and John Q. Public thought they saw a get rich scheme and jumped in wallet first.All those that lost money from 2000-2003 shouldn't have been in the market PERIOD!I made more money on the drop than the bubble from 1998-2000.Ever heard of shorting a stock?As far as the 2004 elections go,I WILL NOT VOTE!Last election the Supreme court voted on who would be president.Our votes meant NOTHING! DB

[Da Bull]

Remember this. When Clinton took over, our economy was already on the rise. Just like when Bush took over, we were on a downward spiral. You cannot blame Bush for this. I think he is looking out for our best interest during some crazy times.

Bullshit blt,I won't flame you because I respect you,you were a daytrader once,you should know beeter than to state that comment.Well,maybe that's why you don't trade anymore either.Sorry bro,just callin' em like I see 'em. DB

[mfenske]

As far as the 2004 elections go,I WILL NOT VOTE!Last election the Supreme court voted on who would be president.Our votes meant NOTHING! DB

DB brings up a good point. Al Gore got the majority of American votes, right? I wasn't one of them for everyone's reference. Unless I am mistaken my idea of democracy is a leader is elected by THE PEOPLE (i.e. voters). The electoral college is a concept who's time has passed. I think whoever has the most votes wins, period.

Do one on CLINTON NOW. That would be cool.
Add him selling secrets to china and how he and his administration were always snorting cocaine and all that bullshit.
Also how they took all the Ws out of the keyboards when Bush entered office

As we all know George W. Bush, the almighty, all holy, all knowing, smartest man alive, fighter pilot, and all around swell guy would never do cocaine. Also, who cares if the Clinton administration took all of the "W" keys off the keyboards, like Dubya knows what to do with one anyways. Mark

[bermich]

The Ws. Just shows how mature the clinton ad' was. Especially since the team follows the leaders. It was probably his idea.

Reagon and Bush spending more than the budget.
RUSSIA was a BIG problem when REAGON was president. They were in a serious state of transision and proved to be a scarey threat to everyone. We needed safe guards against Russia. Especially during the revolt and overthrow or whatever the fuck it was. Plus IRAN was fucking with us. Every little shit country was fucking with US during Reagon until he bombed the fuck out of them if they fucked with us.
BUSH.. IRAQ was invading another country. Regardless if we needed oil or not, it was OUR job to help out. You cant help out without dipping into the money jar.

Republicans like business. Democrats like staying at home and living off of well fare. There is a balance. Without one we couldnt have the other.
Republicans like sending their kids to private schools for better education. Democrats like to complain that the schools suck.

[symatech]

ANY COUNTRY that murders hundreds of thousandss of people just for disagreeing with his policies needs to be over thrown.

So i guess we need to be next then. That being the UNITED STATES. I certainly hope you know your history. Because thats what the US has been doing since waaay back when.

[symatech]

Taking "W's" out of the keyboard is FALSE and OLD NEWS. White house press said it was false years ago. And the glueing files shut, no paper, all that shit is false.

[symatech]

Hopefully there are those who are not so blinded by partisanship that they can recognize when something is horribly wrong. This is not about Clinton, this is about what makes sense. This is not about Republican vs. Democrat, Liberal vs. Conservative. This is about examining the issues and asking yourselves honestly if anything has improved under Bush's watch. Deficit? Unemployment? Foreign Policy? Environment? Education? Health care? Energy? National Security? Social Security? Economy?

Well, have things improved or gotten worse?

This emodies everything that people need to think about. Unfortunately many americans, concervative and liberal alike, think only along partisan lines. Anybody that does this and defends a persons because of party affiliation is shallow, ignorant, and doesnt deserve to vote.

[sin]

reading this thread cracks me up. everybody picks a side and sticks to it like its their religion, as if any politician is out to help anyone but themselves. you are all sheep.

[navydevildoc]

reading this thread cracks me up. everybody picks a side and sticks to it like its their religion, as if any politician is out to help anyone but themselves. you are all sheep.

To be honest, the reason I usually vote Democratic is because they have positions on key issues that I care very passionately about:

1) The woman's right to choose
2) Gay Equal Rights
3) Universal Health Care

Now, before you all go off the handle saying "fuck this guy" or whatever, I am just trying to explain why *I* vote the way I do. There are some things that I like on the republican platform, namely halting illegal immigration. BUT, those issues don't overshadow the ones above.

Libertarians come close, but they would never get involved with health care, and won't be in the white house for a very very long time.

That's why the democratic ticket usually gets my vote. It's not a religion, just the way the parties line up. Now, in the local races (congresswoman, senators, state offices) I am much more of a swing voter.

[symatech]

reading this thread cracks me up. everybody picks a side and sticks to it like its their religion, as if any politician is out to help anyone but themselves. you are all sheep.

That is the most ridiculous thing Ive read. Have you read any of my posts? I always come out and say I am non-partisan. I vote the issues which I feel are important and for the candidate whom I feel best represents them. Just because we vote doesnt make us sheep.

Now to those who vote strictly along party lines -and like you said there are lots of them- they are sheep. Or at least idiots. I think for myself. I stand for what I believe in, no more no less. I stick to my side because it's what I believe in. Not because somebody says to.

Now a lot of people will say they vote their beliefs, and then you ask a simple question as to why they believe it and you expect a well thought out answer...not some bullshit piece of propaganda. People should have the intuition to think for themselves and not believe it just because somebody says so...even if that somebody is a congressman, or senator, or president. Being asked to justify your reasoning is always a good idea and intelligent; it's meerly pathetic when the justification is some one line answer which doesnt amount to dry shit. Or something like "he's the president, if your not with him your hurting america."

peace

[Rickson]

I don't really want to get involved in this discussion but I would like to compliment Navy on a great amount of research and a very good post.

[bermich]

So i guess we need to be next then. That being the UNITED STATES. I certainly hope you know your history. Because thats what the US has been doing since waaay back when.

I compiment NAVY too. He would have been the kid I sat behind in history class during test day.


EVERY COUNTRY has their brutal past. You cant bring up HOW America got its land. That is a totally different discussion. We would bring up the holy wars and all the other wars. The US was brutal and savage but atleast we are taking OVER everything. Just the countries that fuck with us and deserve it.

We have the power to push anyone around. Yet we are still tactfull and polite.

Religion. The holy wars. More people dies during the crusades than in ALL the wars comibined. So I wont talk about religion.

I also dont care for a few things that are happening right now but I dont want to help the clinton side....

I feel 911 has envoked many bills that help ruin OUR privacy. Privacy against phone tampering and all that. Now their are many loop holes allowing feds to invade our privacy. Also the criminals of war act is pushing the line a little. Not allowing them their rights is fucked up.
There are a few other things.
I would still vote for Bush though

[Calipso]

Polititics suck. Lets see how America would do as an anarchy?!?!