Do you believe this ?? Hunters please reply.

**Catamount** · 10-21-2003, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Nixter

Actually I would have to go "down" to VT, I live in Canada.

Did I ever say "up"?

**Catamount** · 10-21-2003, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by Catamount

Shit Nixter don't ever come to VT you'll get your ass shot by all the redneck deer hunters up here.....I could give two shits though. If you like to hunt then fine but I don't think I could kill an animal unless I needed to......but I'll be glad to eat anything that someone else kills

Now you guys go catch those deers, haha

Pretty funny that I said I would do that. Just went to my friends place to watch the game and his brother gave me a shit load of deer meat. Who would have known that 2 hours later I would actually get some deer steak and hamburg....too weird.

**Nixter** · 10-22-2003, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig

Do you live in California? Serously, the mentallity is so different than any I have ever heard before. We should (maybe shouldn't) compare notes one of these days. I try to learn and respect other peoples thoughts and views, sometimes it just seems that I am so very different than other people. I guess what gets me is that if I am not hurting you or interefering in your life in any way, what difference does it make to you. Your place of residency takes up space, you drive a car, you eat meat, you eat vegetables, etc. What's the difference to you personally.

I don't hold it against you that you don't hunt. Why would you hold it against me that I do. I don't inference you as being "less of a man" because you don't hunt...even though you do me because I do hunt. I just get confused sometimes.

peace,
ttgb

I stated further up that I live in Canada.

I have no problem with hunting for meat at all. My main issue was the "sport" of it. It's ok, I'm not against you hunters in a serious way. I just have this little itch inside me about the whole "manliness" of it. Hard to explain I guess. Some types just figure they are all big and tough, conquering nature.... with a gun. I'm not saying that's how you guys view it. Whatever, let's drop it!

Nixter.

**Nixter** · 10-22-2003, 12:11 AM

Originally Posted by Catamount

Did I ever say "up"?

yes...

Originally Posted by Catamount

Shit Nixter don't ever come to VT you'll get your ass shot by all the redneck deer hunters up here.

"up here" implies that you are above me. Last I checked Canada was above the States, but that was hours ago!

**Juggernaut** · 10-22-2003, 06:02 AM

I haven't been hunting in a real long time but in my younger day I did a lot. Used to throw my gear in a pack and just head into the woods (once got lost for two days). I didn't use dogs or a stand..........I tracked. If you don't think it's a sport try and track one down. Then clean it, cut it and pack it back out. I never shot unless I had a dead bead to kill it with the first shot.........and hell yes I eat what I kill, to kill something just to watch it die is horse s**t.

Also you're not giving much credit to the buck.........they are a lot smarter than you think. They will double back, follow the doe crossing open areas and walk right by you without you ever knowing it.

***BIG TEXAN*** · 10-22-2003, 07:19 AM

Hey Jugg, didn't ya'll used to hunt with spears? Or did ya'll findly invent the bow and arrow. I know ya'll had just figured out how to make fire and all.

Damn cavemen!!!

***BIG TEXAN*** · 10-22-2003, 07:23 AM

Just playing Jugg. I do agree with you on the tracking part. That's how I was taught how to hunt. Spend a couple of weeks before season just checking the trails and looking for rubbs and all and than you go out and track you down the buck you want and have a go at it. As for sitting in a blind with a six pack, that isn't much sport to me. Hell how would these guys like it if I left a case of beer in their front lawn and picked 'em off one by one as they go out to get it.

**Juggernaut** · 10-22-2003, 07:27 AM

Spears!!!...................I wish.................all we had was a club. You ever brought down a wooly mammoth with a club? I always went for the knee first. Lost some really good bros in the process............grog, uhnhhg and smitty.... all damn good bros indeed. I told smitty to watch out for that right hind leg but did he listen to me.........oooohhhhh NO.........poor smitty.

**Red Ketchup** · 10-22-2003, 07:36 AM

Originally Posted by Nixter

So when hunters hunt species to extinction or close to it such as whales, grizzlies and countless bird species, they are actually helping? I was more concerned with the fairness of the whole sporting aspect really.

Bro...

You're promoting whats long become a myth. In the old days, hunting = anarchy = no management. My father tells me stories of "back in the days" when there was no enforcement or management when people thought resources were endless.

Those are the same "good old days" as when we dumped untreated raw sewage in our rivers and lakes, dumped nuclear waste in the ocean and great lakes, clear cut thousands of square miles of forests, thought oil was in endless supplies and drove huge inefficient gas guzzlers... (and so on and so on...)

Times have changed...

Hunters do not kill off animals to extinction, poachers do that (and poachers are criminals). Hunters as well as fishermen cooperate with their governments wildlife management departments and pride themselves in "following the rules". Not only that but we are required to submit statistics to help manage this population.

For me in Quebec in "Zone 10" that means that during the 2 weeks whitetail deer season I may shoot one MALE adult deer, no females, no fawns. That means last year, when sitting in my treestand when a female deer came by to eat my apples every day, I happily just looked at it and even took pictures (attached).

It also means I can only kill 5 partridges per day, and can only posess 15 at any given time. So even if I know that I can EASILY shoot 25 partridges in an afternoon, and even if I know very well 75% of the population will die of starvation over winter, I only collect my 5 partridges.

Bro, my philosophy on hunting is very simple:

If you are a true vegan and never ever use any products or foods originated from an animal, then you may criticise my hunting all you want, I have nothing but respect for what you have to say.

If you on the other hand are a meat eater, but you let someoe else do the killing for you, then I am sorry but well... I guess you see where I am heading here... At least I can look an animal in the eyes before killing it and eating it.

As far as "fairness" is concerned, which do you prefer?

An animal that lived wild all it's life, never had a worry other than surviving in the wilderness, and then one day bang, it's dead before it hits the ground. (yes we take GREAT pride in clean kills, I will not pull the trigger unless I have a perfect kill shot) And then I harvest everything edible on it, and leave the entrails so the foxes, wild cats and other carnivores will have a feast that night.

or

Beef, pigs, chicken even milking cows (they become ground beef) who lived their entire life chained to a tiny stall, or minuscule cage, was force fed and boosted with all sorts of drugs and hormones (tren anyone?

) and even their own processed fecees for chickens, handled rather inhumanely to say the least (go visit industrial pig, beef or chicken farms and check out the living conditions of the animals, not for the weak of heart!), and then packed away in uheated animal transports (ever seen the inside of a cattle car, or a 45 footer chicken transport? Sardine cans are uncramped compared to them and they're real fun for the LIVING animals when it's -30C or +30C) to the abatoir, where they are hearded to their death by various gruesome methods which are "supposed" to be humane... (remember, the abatoir techs who kills the animals have quotas to fill, they are in a hurry so hey, this pig wasn't completely electrocuted? this cow's spine wasn't completely severed by the pneumatic spike? This chickens head wasn't cut off by the rotating blades? Ah well, too bad, it'll die eventually along the dis-assembly line).

Thats the reality of the meat you buy at the grocery store bro... I know which I prefer. I know which is fair to me. The wild animal lived a real life, it had a chance, catching it is a heck of a challenge as it is not easy. The caged animal never had a life and sure as heck didn't have a chance, it's more like shooting fish in a barrel.

Red

ps: BTW the reason I know more than anyone would want to know about commercial meat is that one of my uncles owns nearly a quarter of the industrial pig farms in this province, I've seen a lot of this with my own eyes and it ain't pretty.

**Juggernaut** · 10-22-2003, 07:55 AM

You always seem to impress me Red...........good post bro. Nice pic too.

**tryingtogetbig** · 10-22-2003, 08:06 AM

nice pic red...I try to remember to always take my camera out in the field with me too...seems like when I forget though is when I see the most amazig things...murphy's law. Nice Pic though!

**New GearGuy** · 10-22-2003, 08:36 AM

Nice post Red, awesome pic!!

**Nixter** · 10-22-2003, 11:56 AM

Sure getting cold standing here pissing into the wind!

Nixter.

**Bigen12** · 10-22-2003, 12:06 PM

It can get you wet too....

Swellin · 10-22-2003, 03:27 PM

Everybody has expressed excellent reasons to hunt, but I have another. I hunt a great deal, and I hardly ever shoot. We have a limit of 12 deer per year here. I hardly ever take more than one. The last two deer I killed had health problems. I trophy hunt bucks, and I meat hunt does. I hunt to get away from the rest of life. I love the woods. I love to watch the animals. When you sit and watch wild animals acting as though you are nowhere near, yet you are 20 yards away...it is a great adrenaline rush. You learn a lot about the animals, and I learn things about me, about my life, about my values. One year, I saw in excess of 160 bucks within 300 yards of my stand...I did not fire a shot that year. When I started bowhunting, the sport changed even more. I truly learned more respect for the animal. I am an avid firearms collector and sporting competitor, but I deer hunt almost exclusively with a bow. It is a much more personal experience. To sit on a cold morning and watch the sun rise, to hear all of the animals' sounds, to determine what and where they are, to control your emaotions when the first movement appears, to keep silent while that animal walks by you...I live for this, I don't need to kill for it. Unfortunately, the kill seems to be the payoff for so many. The hunt itself should be the payoff. I don't need to take an animal to validate my skills as a hunter. I film lots of animals!

<<I just reread my post, and no...I don't mean to sound like a Zen version of Jeremiah Johnson...although, I would take it as a compliment

>>

**mfenske** · 10-22-2003, 05:58 PM

What I always wanted to know is if any of these animal rights people own a leather belt or leather shoes? I bet they do. OOOOh that poor innocent cow. I am a hunter (unsucessful so far) but I hunt deer because I love Venison and it's a great, lean, cheap source of protein. Mark

**tryingtogetbig** · 10-22-2003, 06:13 PM

Originally Posted by mfenske

What I always wanted to know is if any of these animal rights people own a leather belt or leather shoes? I bet they do. OOOOh that poor innocent cow. I am a hunter (unsucessful so far) but I hunt deer because I love Venison and it's a great, lean, cheap source of protein. Mark

Guarantee you they have leather seats in their cars too. Drive gas guzzling limos, sports cars, SUVs, etc.

I pay my dues each year to help wildlife...wonder what they do?

They stand around saying "uuummhhh....you people shouldn't hunt. that's wrong. you are killing things...thats just wrong....oh yeah, I want my steak medium rare by the way...thank you"

Swellin · 10-22-2003, 08:11 PM

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig

They stand around saying "uuummhhh....you people shouldn't hunt. that's wrong. you are killing things...thats just wrong....oh yeah, I want my steak medium rare by the way...thank you"

WRONG!

They want it burned to a crisp...well done. Do you honestly think an anti can enjoy a bloody slab of meat?

Thinking about it is making me hungry for a medium rare, bloody piece of cow posterior.

**Red Ketchup** · 10-22-2003, 08:26 PM

Thanks bros! As you may have guessed I am a very strong beleiver in those issues and often have to defend them...

By the way that doe in the pic came back every single day to eat my apples. Of course that means I didn't catch anything last year, but what a rush every time she came back!

I sat as still as I could in my treestand and snapped pics or just stared at her. Sitting there I also saw dozens of partridges, hares, chipmunks, squirrels, tons of small birds landed in my treestand, a couple of foxes walked right under it... Thats what it's all about.

My all time favorite encouter in the woods was a few years ago... I was partridge hunting (which here consists of taking a 5-8 miles walk in old logging trails with a .22 or a .410 shotgun) and came face to face with a MASSIVE grey wolf. And I do mean face to face! He was barely 25 feet from me and looking to his side when we met in a bend, he had not heard or smelled me.

At first I thought it was a big dog... within a few seconds I figured out it was way too big to be someones pooch! I could not believe how large that thing was... it's back came up about as high as my belt! Legs and paws were massive. Finally I caughed to attract it's attention as it was still walking towards me and was barely 10 feet away... it just stopped, looked at me, and just slowly turned off and walked away into the woods... not a care in the world and sure as heck not scared of me!

How I wish I had brought my camera that day... wow! The funny thing is that every time I tell that story to non hunters, their usual reaction is "Why did you not shoot it!?" They can't understand that the thought never even crossed my mind. I just gave it the respect it was owed and it went on it's merry way. Again thats what it's all about.

Nixter hey bro, don't worry about it... just remember that the actual killing is not what hunting is all about. It's really a small part. The "sport" is really the whole experience that surrounds it.

Red

Oh here is another pic of last years doe, this is taken the next day...

**tryingtogetbig** · 10-22-2003, 08:29 PM

What is that white shit on the ground?? lol

**Nixter** · 10-22-2003, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Red Ketchup

Nixter hey bro, don't worry about it... just remember that the actual killing is not what hunting is all about. It's really a small part. The "sport" is really the whole experience that surrounds it.

I can understand the whole thrill of the hunt thing. But I think the kill is a big part of it for many, otherwise they'd be satified with raising their unloaded rifle, placing the deer in their crosshairs and exclaiming "bang bang, your dead!" Then everybody goes home for beers.

Nixter.

**tryingtogetbig** · 10-22-2003, 09:12 PM

Here's a pic of me hunting last year...

**New GearGuy** · 10-23-2003, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig

Here's a pic of me hunting last year...

LMFAO!!!!!!!!

**JohnDoe1234** · 10-23-2003, 02:46 PM

Sound like something some dip shit antihunting group would do.

**Red Ketchup** · 10-23-2003, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by tryingtogetbig

Here's a pic of me hunting last year...

You been huntin' in newfoundland again bro?

By the way that "white shit" on the ground is snow...

deer season here = start of winter.

When I took those pictures last year, it was around -25°C in the morning when I climbed into my treestand. Some days it made it up to -5°C in the afternoon.

Snow does offer advantages when hunting... for one thing, tracks could not be more obvious if they had neon lights around them

Also it offers a very high contrast background to animals, so you can see them a little better.

Of course it's cold and it sucks otherwise

Red

**tryingtogetbig** · 10-23-2003, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by Red Ketchup

By the way that "white shit" on the ground is snow...

deer season here = start of winter.

When I took those pictures last year, it was around -25°C in the morning when I climbed into my treestand. Some days it made it up to -5°C in the afternoon.

Snow does offer advantages when hunting... for one thing, tracks could not be more obvious if they had neon lights around them

Also it offers a very high contrast background to animals, so you can see them a little better.

Of course it's cold and it sucks otherwise

Red

We don't get hardly any snow around here...wish I could make it snow just on the weekends I go hunting. During rutt, which is typically bow season, like it is now, it gets into the 90's F everyday. Pretty miserable. Not sure what would be worse. Hell I have to mow my grass this weekend, if that gives you an idea.

I do a lot of bird hunting also (mainly quail and pheasant) and it sucks until Jan and Feb because it's so warm my dog can't smell shit. Birds won't stay down, etc. Also, because so warm and usually dry it is dusty and lots of ragweed pollen. Tops of your boots through Decemeber will be yellow when you come in from hunting...all pollen. Doesn't do the dog's nose any good either.

When it does get cold, usually lot of wind...so kinda have to be careful what you ask for. Besides it being so hot for hunting, the weather is quite enjoyable though. Winter (highs below 50 degrees F) only lasts about 1.5 months. Will still get some warm days in their also.

I'll have to take my camera out with me this year and see if I can get some pic's to share. I have quite a few from previous hunts...when I have time to scan I'll start a thread and post them and we can all compare pics. I really enjoyed seeing the pic's of the doe.

peace,

ttgb

**Bigboy123** · 10-23-2003, 09:43 PM

Ill ask around, my roomate is an correctional officer at warren county NJ, Ill see what he says, he was just out there last week hunting, Im goin to my buddys place in upstate NY. DOnt count out some dumn fuckin kids, or the dumn lady that is like save the dear. But i wouldnt think of any people by u to be like that...