So how many believe in God?

[Pheedno]

Well, certainly we disagree on morality's need and meaning

But lets say I dont give a rip about your pathetic morals - I sustain myself by raping and pillaging the weaker and stupid - If I am smart enough at it I can squeeze little beings like you my whole life - all the while being blissfully happy - perhaps it even would bring me a defined pleasure to sadistically rape your mother while tying you to a chair to watch before I kill you too - means we have no "right" to lock people up except as a way of keeping the real predators away from the sheep.

Their are many in this world which would take pleasure in this. Mnay who do not care about MY outlook on right and wrong. These men(or women) have no morals in my interpretation of them. Unfortuantely, I feel that life in prison is he only punishment available for monsters as such, in this life or the next that does not exist. Thats is one of the few reasons I do not believe in the death penalty, and think "lock down" should consist of solitary for life with bread and water

[QUOTE=CYCLEON]why is it then you feel that Osama bin laden is wrong - I assure you he sleeps well at night for what he has done - his only thought is to avoid capture so that he can do ever greater things within his moral code - exterminating a weak society like ours is completely within his beliefs.[/QUTOE]

Quite correct, it is in his beliefs. He probably believes that as much as you believe he's going to hell for his actions. An instance in which I wish there was such a place for the murderers such as him. See, just because I do not have a belief in eternal punishment does not dictate what I find innapropriate, or in his case, unbelievably cruel. I know that killing 4000 people for living a life is wrong. "God", or his followers teachings did not instill this conception in me. It's common sense through cognitive thought. I'm actually quite boggled as to how you could pose this question without actually thinking that humans without belief in Christianity are void of morality, which is proposterous. Or is it that you think we are practicing a quality given to us by what we don't understand, or refuse to accept?

If you can murder, manipulate and rob people all of your life without reprocussion in this life and die an old man - there is no need for
morality

Of course their is. Morality is a way of life. A conduct which is instilled. It provides prudence and discipline to a human being. You believe morality to soley come from fear in the unknown. I know it comes from fear of the unknown, as well, as development from guidence. That fear you carry, is your faith, and if it's how you've developed your ethic, your morals, then I say it's best to come from one place, then from none. My morals were not developed from fear in "god"

for morality is weakness that gets in the way of self interests

No, that would be the thought of possible guilt. Morality dismisses consideration of unjust interest

you are moral because it makes you "feel" good about yourself? just exactly the weekness that I am talking about - pathetic

Are you not rewarded for the morals you practice here on Earth. Does it not give you satisfaction of yourself to live your life with those words I spoke above. I'm pathetic for my reward in living my life for joy, practicing whats just, and helping others achieve the same, and you are the enlightened one because you do the same, but out of fear? I believe you are confused

the real reason that most of you dont believe in God is simple - you do not want Him to be Lord, to subjugate yourself to Him - dont sit there and tell me about some church or stupid people, blah blah - God doesnt seem to require any religion to BE - yet because of your own pride and because you do not wish to change your ways you do not wish to really look to see where He is

Your right, God does not require a religion to BE. But to go along with that, not everyones "god" is Christian, a concept most Christians cannot grasp.

I'm Deist, I believe in "god" by way of reason, not faith. Their was something that started it all, and random it seems not be. My "god" does not oversee this world, it's place in the grand sheme was finished the moment creation started, and death brings an end that is absolute.
One thing is for sure, their is only one answer, and we'll all sit here and throw bombs back at each other untill the ned of it all. Everyone is correct in their own interpretation and if the life is lived to just, prudence, and joyfull endeavor, then may your wishes be true. I myself am confortable with my own mortality, the fact(as I see it) that all will be gone once my body dies. The spirit, the soul, the energy,(whatever it is you want to refer to it as) which is contained, will be passed on, unconsciously. Eternal sleep

While I'm here, I can be joined to those around me, nature, the Earth. My reward is life, not heaven. My punishment is life, not hell

[takara]

I am agnostic... I feel God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved. If you were to have asked me this question when I was younger I would say, "Yes, there is a God." However, as I grow older and am presented with more theories on God, then the more hesitant I am to give an answer. I have faith... but in what? I am not sure. I know I can't have faith in our man kind.... therefore, if God created man kind... then how can I have faith in him? I think ignorance is bliss when it comes to this subject. I am happy knowing that I don't know... because whether he did exist or if he didn't it would be a disapointment. There would be so many let downs.

[GeoQuadzilla]

I just want to say one thing for all those people who say they don't believe in god because " I see wars, people killing each other, disease, etc,," I find it rather funny because those things had me questioning my faith recently I tried to see the bigger picture... and it wasn't going so well for first time in my life i found myself doubting God. Then as weird as this would seem i seen the movie Bruce Almighty with jim carrey, morgan freeman, jennifer aniston... And i seen him saying the same things i had said at one time and i'm sure we all said at times... As i watched the movie I started feeling better about things and by the end of the movie I think its rather easy to pick up on the meaning of the whole thing... God can't simply wave his hands and grant everyones prayers... why? because we would all be spoiled beyond... I agree some of us have it worse then others but why complain? Because at the end of it all God created Man Kind and with that gave us the special power to change our own lives... and isn't that the best gift of all? To know that the answer to most of lives hardships can be found deep inside of all of us... I think i'd rather be pleased with that gift rather then be handed everything i prayed for... Wars happen because people start them... not God! When your a kid growing my father and im sure many of yours would say... Son or Daughter you got yourself into this mess you have to get yourself out... I kind of figure God looks at it the same way... He doesn't get us into trouble but he is there talking to us, giving us advice to try and do whats right... not everyone hears it though... so wars, disease, and of these things will go on as long as we let them go on. We can't blame God for how bad our world has gotten, we have to blame ourselves... But i know deep down god is there trying to help us to do the right thing... Like i said early we all have the power to love, respect, and change our lives... You can be anything you want to be if you, and change anything you want to change in your own life... If you just believe in the gift that he gave us... and if we all knew that and tapped into it.. I'm sure this world would be a better place... Peace.

[cascade]

I dunno... but I've made some pretty "good" worlds in Sim City.
Atleast in my Sim City worlds, I never had ozone proplems, it's not over populated,
there's no shortage of natural resouces, fossil fuels are replunished at a faster rate then they're used up, and there's no McDonalds or Cosco's.
It's easy playing God

I like this...
who am I kidding?

[Da Bull]

I believe in the big bang theory.

[hoss827]

I was reading a great book recently..nearly through with it. It's called, "When We Were Saints" by Han Nolan. I' d suggest that book to anyone....especially if you don't believe in God. One thing that I learned out of that book, is that to get closer to God, one must give up everything separating him/her from God. Everything in our life that we love, computers...cars....gear....the gym..everything like that, is keep us from His love.

I've actually thought about leaving that all, and just seeing how close I could get to Him. But i'd most likely be thrown in a mental institution...and that's a sad thing. Being thrown in a place like that, for trying to get close to God? The world is pretty messed up...for those of you that don't believe in God, I hope you all will repent , because I hope to see you all in heaven some day...yes, even YOU Rambo.

[Mr. Sparkle]

Pheedno-
You my friend have to have it proven, It upsets you that you cant prove the existence of a God. If we could all prove it then it wouldn’t be a choice. There would be no reason for Christ’s death.....Do you feel a tug at your heart telling you to just believe? Do not ignore it because it will pull you less and less as the years go on.....
Gods peace that passes all understanding is o so true

Cyc, I really enjoyed reading your response.
I am really amazed at all of the believers here, its so cool

[Pheedno]

Pheedno-
You my friend have to have it proven, It upsets you that you cant prove the existence of a God. If we could all prove it then it wouldn’t be a choice. There would be no reason for Christ’s death.....Do you feel a tug at your heart telling you to just believe? Do not ignore it because it will pull you less and less as the years go on.....
Gods peace that passes all understanding is o so true

Cyc, I really enjoyed reading your response.
I am really amazed at all of the believers here, its so cool

No, you misunderstand my belief. I do not need Christianity's "god" proven to me bro. I have my own beliefs which are seperate, my own outlook on lifes meaning, our creation, and death; and I believe I'm absolutely correct, just as much as CYC or yourself believes in your Christian faith. I'm not looking for proof, as I've already done my searching.

[Mr. Sparkle]

No, you misunderstand my belief. I do not need Christianity's "god" proven to me bro. I have my own beliefs which are seperate, my own outlook on lifes meaning, our creation, and death; and I believe I'm absolutely correct, just as much as CYC or yourself believes in your Christian faith. I'm not looking for proof, as I've already done my searching.

I hope you didnt think it was a personal attack, becauase it was not intended to be. But if so then I am sorry.

[Pheedno]

I hope you didnt think it was a personal attack, becauase it was not intended to be. But if so then I am sorry.

Of course not bro. I wouldn't take anything in a debate such as this thread has turned out to be as a personal attack. We're sharing our ideas, and offering opinions on how each of us understands these differences. I consider it a healthy excercise.

[groverman1]

For of those who say prove it you must realize one thing. Without faith religion is nothing. There are things that occur in everyday life that are not meant to be proved by a scientist or some brainac.

[palme]

For of those who say prove it you must realize one thing. Without faith religion is nothing. There are things that occur in everyday life that are not meant to be proved by a scientist or some brainac.

You said it, "without faith religion is nothing" thats because it´s just a belif. But you can belive all you want but it dosent make it real.

[tryingtogetbig]

The problem today with religion and believing in God is how organized religion and christianity have been linked together as the only way to being a good christian.

I see church members doing exactly what they preach not to do. I hear about priests raping little boys. I see preachers on TV getting filthy rich off of poor people. I see religious nuts bombing abortion clinics to prove that "their way is the right way." I see countries that have been fighting for thousands of years in the name of religion. I seen 5000 fellow Americans die on 9/11 because of some group of people that believe they will get to heaven by killing Americans. I hear about Southern Baptists (which supposedly I am) banning shopping at KMART because they sell Playboy (which I enjoy) and boycotting Disney because of some bullshiet. I see multi-million dollar churches dang near on every block...yet homeless vets and elderly that have no home or heating/air conditioning in thier home if they are fortanute enough to have a home.

Then these people that I see doing all of this crazy stuff want to tell me how I should believe/act/etc in order to become a bettter human being!? They want to pray for me, pitty me for not going to church every Sunday to act like a hypocrite.

I am an intelligent person that can make my own decisions and draw my own conclusions. When I do wrong, I know that I have done wrong. I don't need to ask or tell anyone but my maker that I screwed up and ask for forgiveness. What religion does that fit in with?

I do believe in a higher power...just not all of the other bullshiet that people want to murk up the waters along with that belief.

Sorry for the rant.

peace,

ttgb

[Mart651]

All of us here have faith, I promise. Some of us in the lord others in whatever. If we did not have faith we would not be taking advice from people on the enternet that we have never met , seen or truely know. Some of our beliefs are different but I promise it doesn't make mine any less real than yours. Once again I believe in God and Jesus Christ he is as real to me as any of you on this site if not more so.

[PTbyJason]

I lean toward atheism. Having been present while people were dying, young and old, I have seen nothing to convince me otherwise. I am open to the possibility of a higher power but not as defined by any religion. Jesus Christ was a man of extreme peace, love and forgiveness. I see none of those qualities in the so-called Christian religions of today. His portrayed God as a loving God, a father. This is a huge contrast to the teachings of his time and written in th Old Testament of a vengeful and punishing God. The message of Christ has been so distorted that I will never describe myself as Christian but as a believer in the truth in the teachings of Jesus as a man. Those who preach the Bible should make a distinction between the teachings of Jesus and the "stories" in the old testament. The messages are contradictory.

The Case for Christ Section 2, Chapter 7 deals with this very thing.

If you say that you describe yourself "as a believer in the truth in the teachings of Jesus as a man. " and Jesus tells those around him that he is the Son of God, then we have conflicting things going on here if you say that Jesus is the opposite of God.

The Case for Faith most of the book deals with deals with things such as God being a "vengeful and punishing God".

There is definite difference between organized religion and believing and worshiping God, don't let that be a hangup.

[groverman1]

Well palme thats true. I couldnt feel better knowing my faith is strong, through thick and thin. Peace brother

[PTbyJason]

I am agnostic... I feel God's existence can neither be proved nor disproved. If you were to have asked me this question when I was younger I would say, "Yes, there is a God." However, as I grow older and am presented with more theories on God, then the more hesitant I am to give an answer. I have faith... but in what? I am not sure. I know I can't have faith in our man kind.... therefore, if God created man kind... then how can I have faith in him? I think ignorance is bliss when it comes to this subject. I am happy knowing that I don't know... because whether he did exist or if he didn't it would be a disapointment. There would be so many let downs.

I disagree with this. Since I have recently tested my faith and discoverd the truth, I find that everything is so much better. Nothing is a let down. It gives everything meaning. I know that God exist and it brings joy to my life beyond explanation.

[PTbyJason]

No, you misunderstand my belief. I do not need Christianity's "god" proven to me bro. I have my own beliefs which are seperate, my own outlook on lifes meaning, our creation, and death; and I believe I'm absolutely correct, just as much as CYC or yourself believes in your Christian faith. I'm not looking for proof, as I've already done my searching.

Pheedno, you are definitely one of my boys bro. So please don't take anything I say personally. Can I please ask where you did your searching and how you came to this conclusion?

[PTbyJason]

I still owe some of you a PM. Bear with me a little bit longer on it. We are a lot busier at work than I anticipated. I apologize for that.

[Animal Cracker]

Ortho-Christian..

[Pheedno]

Pheedno, you are definitely one of my boys bro. So please don't take anything I say personally. Can I please ask where you did your searching and how you came to this conclusion?

No worries Jason, I know you well enough not to do that.

I actually mis-spoke when I said my searching is done, as I think continued question in ones beliefs is what keeps them true and fresh.

My conclusion on belief comes mostly from my own pondering of realistic possiblity, speaking with Christians, as well as comparing contradictions in religion.
Below are a few paraphrases, as well as some examples from one book I've studied named the Hiram Key. Written my two freemasons by the name of Christopher Night, and Dr. Thomas Lomas. In their research, they were trying to figure out if Jesus himself was a Freemason, and ran across some unexpected findings
Their is a fundemental flaw for Christianity, in that the Christian myth predates Jesus Christ. The outline of Christs story is as ancient as man, from virgin birth, to sacraficial death that saved his people. It has all been written down, time after time, for religious figureheads in many cultures. Not a case of similarities, total interchangability. Mithra(or mithras), a cult(as their refered to now) which was popular in the Roman Empire, that the Church Fathers indentified as the work of the devil, intended deliberately to parody the story of Christ. Fact of the matter is the Mithra existed long before the Christian Messiah. Church Fathers simply claimed the devil travled back in time to plant a man who would discredit the 'obvious' originality of the story of Christ. This was indentified as the Satanic Time Travel Theory.
Mithraisms devotees recognised the divinity of the Emperor and were relaxed about coexisting alongside other cults, but it was absorbed by the Christians. But for a tiny twist of fate in the later years of the Roman empire, nice families would today be driving off to Sunday worship with 'Mithra loves you' stickers in their car windows

Some examples of predated myth:
Mithra as previously mentioned, was born of a virgin in a stable on Dec. 25 in 600BC which is a Syrian offshoot of the more ancient Persian cult of Zoroaster. Mithraism's doctrines included baptism, a sacramental meal, belief in immortality, a savior god who died and rose again to act as mediator between man and god, a resurection, a last judgment, and a heaven and hell. Candles, incense, and bells used in ceremonies.
Indra is another born of a virgin in Tibet at 700BC, Zoroaster(mentioned above) again born of a virgin in 1500-1200BC, Krishna, born of the virgin Devaki in around 1200BC, Attis born of virgin Phrygia around 200BC.

Another thing to look at is the true name of Christ. 'Jesus Christ' is a later Greek title. Yehoshua is most likely the born name, which translates to "Yahweh delivers" and equates to modern terms like "the one that will bring victory" In the form we would recongnise today, would be Joshua. The name given to the man who delivered victory to his people at the battle of Jericho. The name Jesus is simply a Greek interpretation of the Hebrew name Yehoshua. The addition of the title "Christ" is what is startling. It is a Greek rendering of the Jewish title- Messiah, despite the fact that the Hebrew/Aramaic term simply meant "a person to become rightfull king of the Jews". Jewish tradition says Israels kings were also associated with messiahs. To them, the word meant king to be. Straight forward, practial meanings. It's certain that the Jewish concept of a messiah and the coming kingdom had no supernatural overtones at all. Messiah only appears twice in the Old Testament, and not at all in the New. No matter though, by the time of Jesus it had become a popular concept among the Jews as they looked forward to a time when they would govern themselves again. For the Jewish nationalists, once a rightfull person took the throne of Israel, he would become king and the future-tense title of messiah would no longer apply. The absence of messiah from the New testement can only be explained if the translators used the Greek word Christos wherever the Hebrew word appeared. Over time, Christ has become synonymous with Jesus rather than any other Messiah.

Another book that has greatly influenced me is "A History of God- The 4,000 year quest of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam" by Karen Armstrong. Who spent seven years as a Roman Catholic nun, ultimately leaving the church, and has sense become one of the foremost British commentators on religious affairs. Now teaching at the Leo Baeck College for the Study of Judaism and the training of Rabbis and Teachers. She is also a member of the Association of Muslim Social Sciences.

A review-
Armstrong, a British journalist and former nun, guides us along one of the most elusive and fascinating quests of all time--the search for God. Like all beloved historians, Armstrong entertains us with deft storytelling, astounding research, and makes us feel a greater appreciation for the present because we better understand our past. Be warned: A History of God is not a tidy linear history. Rather, we learn that the definition of God is constantly being repeated, altered, discarded, and resurrected through the ages, responding to its followers' practical concerns rather than to mystical mandates. Armstrong also shows us how Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have overlapped and influenced one another, gently challenging the secularist history of each of these religions


While I do think their is a god Jason, I know him not to be possible as objective fact, or discovered through rational thought. God is a product of imagination, no matter what religion. His existence is personal to each individual in my eyes. To me, it is the starting creator of the Universe, but not the Earth and Humanity specifically. It does not watch our moves, and holds no place for when we die.
God is many things according to interpretation- It is a coping tool for death, for some a code to live a life, a judge and jurry, a friend, a enemy, a million definitions, and I don't think minds should be suggested to change, as no matter what; the feeling in which the unknown brings to the individual is valid.

[groverman1]

Jason I wish more people could feel that way. Yeah there are ups and downs, trials and tribulation but when I lay my melon down the faith and trust I have in God will get me through anything. Yes he tests you as does Satan but like I said before free will is a gift from God. Well enough ranting because this post was not intended to persuade or push my views upon anyone. But when things get grim and dark knowing he is on my side makes all the difference. Peace to all

[PTbyJason]

LOL, you never cease to amaze me Pheedno. I will respond to part of this and then will try to respond the the rest of this. I need to let it all sink in and I should probably check up on some of the research that you mentioned. Some of that I have never looked in to. So please allow me to respond to this in separate posts.

I will just focus on your opening statements. Basically with what you said, you are saying that the New Testament is made up stories about past events in history (or tales) that were applied to recent events. The problem with this is:

Jesus can be traced historically to the time period to the early times of AD (I'm sorry I don't rememeber the exact date, but I can find them) and we have actual eyewitness testimony from various people who did not necessarily know each other.

Miracles that were performed were witnessed by thousands and when the letters used in the New Testament were written there were many chances for people to stand up and say that the events were not true. Many of these letters were written within just a few years after Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected (which is a very short time compared to most historical writings from that time).

The compiling of the Bible is not 100% accurate, and I will agree with that. Often times there were small discrepencies because it was passed down from generation to generation, often times only by word of mouth. However the New Testament when everything was collected and put together matched up almost perfectly no matter what source they came from.

So basically you have a team of people that put together the new testament collecting information from various people about one particular time period written by various people who were actual eyewitnesses to the events of that particular time period.

LOL, ok I am getting a headache now. I am going to dive into this some and I promise I will respond to your post in more detail. Thanks for taking the time to write that bro. I know it had to take awhile. I will respond to the rest of the detail you listed and possibly redo what I just wrote above. I will get back to you.

[Cycleon]

I believe in the big bang theory.

So do i - there is no reason that the theory of evolution and the fact that God created everything are mutually exclusive ideas - based on the rather limited amount of information we have in genesis about it - Gen follows the basic evolutionary development framework - while said as "days" the words used for 6 periods of creation are actually more like "period" - with morning and evening being wanning and waining. Most Christian scientists also believe in a singular event but that it was started by God - since we find that eneergy cannot be created or destroyed and that all things are untimately energy, God is still quite in the picture

nd as far as Jesus - Josephus, the jewish historian, wrote of him :

"About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, for he was a performer of wonderful deeds, a teacher of such men as are happy to accept the truth. He won over many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. When Pilate, at the suggestion of the leading men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not forsake him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct to this day."
Antiquities, Book 18, 63-64.


"Convened the Sanhedrin (the highest Jewish religious court / governing body). He had brought before them the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, who was called James, and some other men, whom he accused of having broken the law, and handed them over to be stoned."
Antiquities, Book 20, 200.

n his writings, Josephus mentions the Pharisees, the Sadducees, and the Herodians. He mentions Caiaphas, Pontius Pilate, John the Baptist, Jesus (twice) and James the brother of Jesus. He also mentions the Essenes - the strict religious sect within Judaism that founded the Qumran community, where the Dead Sea Scrolls were found.

Tacitus (who disliked christians) wrote:

"To dispel the rumour, Nero substituted as culprits, and treated with the most extreme punishments, some people, popularly known as Christians, whose disgraceful activities were notorious. The originator of that name, Christus, had been executed when Tiberius was Emperor, by order of the procurator Pontius Pilatus. But the deadly cult, though checked for a time, was now breaking out again not only in Judea, the birthplace of this evil, but even throughout Rome, where all the nasty and disgusting ideas from all over the world pour in and find a ready following."
Annals 15 : 44.

[PTbyJason]

I'm loving this dicussion. The more questions I get like this, the stronger my faith grows.

Ok, I found a discussion on Mithra, Krishna, and Christ. Way too much info to list here. The links that they provide are very useful and informative. There are arguments on both sides, so you just have to decide what you think is right. For me it just reconfirms God and Christ more.

[hoss827]

I agree, i love it as well. Faith grows much stronger. Jason, bro, PM me sometime. I'd love to here your experiences, i'll share mine as well!

[Cycleon]

frankly - if they ever find Noah's ark, most who do not believe would still not - like Jesus said in the tale of lazurus the beggar when the rich man asked to go back from hell to warn his family - they have the word to help them was the reply - for if they dont open their heart to the bible basically they would not even believe were someone to raise from the dead.

[groverman1]

The End, actually this is one of the better threads I have read in awhile. Little better than Who thinks tits are better than ass?

[FCECC2]

not me

[hoss827]

yeah foreal

[GeoQuadzilla]

The End, actually this is one of the better threads I have read in awhile. Little better than Who thinks tits are better than ass?

Thanks man

[Mr. Sparkle]

I'm loving this dicussion. The more questions I get like this, the stronger my faith grows.

I feel the same way, it opens my eyes to other views and other ideas. But it all seems to show me that God is so so real.

I heard this somewhere and I am not so sure where. I know the quote is not very accurate but you will get the point.

"The greatest trick satan has ever played is making the world think he does not exist."

Me and my friend talked about that the whole time we ate lunch today. We got off on tangents but they all were based on that. It made me think.

This is a good thread, good call Geo!

[takara]

I disagree with this. Since I have recently tested my faith and discoverd the truth, I find that everything is so much better. Nothing is a let down. It gives everything meaning. I know that God exist and it brings joy to my life beyond explanation.

Well... then that is the difference between you and me. Everything and every person in my life has been a disapointment. I have come to realize the only person who I can depend on and have faith in is me. Nothing has ever proven otherwise.... especialy not the all mighty God.

[GeoQuadzilla]

This Thread i made here is bigger then curly fries

[GeoQuadzilla]

I'm glad you are all getting something out of it

[Body]

If God is capable of anything and everything can He make a rock that is too heavy for him to lift?

[groverman1]

Sounds like you always see the glass as half empty takara. Hope one day you will meet someone who doesnt disappoint you.

[PTbyJason]

Well... then that is the difference between you and me. Everything and every person in my life has been a disapointment. I have come to realize the only person who I can depend on and have faith in is me. Nothing has ever proven otherwise.... especialy not the all mighty God.

I'm very sorry to hear that. I honestly had a similar opinion on life not too long ago. My motto was that I could accomplish anything I put my mind to (In fact I made a post about that as one of the things about me). And for the most part it was true. If I wanted it to happen, I was going to make it happen. I didn't care who said anything about me, I depended on myself and I made things happen. Everything I wanted to happen in my life, I forced by my own power and will. Suddenly I stepped back and looked and realized that all of these small things that I had done to prove to myself that I could accomplish something, amounted to pretty much nothing. I gave up. I gave God my life to do with it whatever he wanted. I couldn't be happier. I am going back and finally doing the things that God wanted me to do years ago, but back then I ran from them. I'm just glad that I am getting a chance to go back and finish what I was suppose to do 3 years ago. My life is finally starting to come together and while I don't see the whole plan perfectly laid out ( I see most of it), I know it will be laid out for me. I had to give up control of my life in order to let God control my life. He's doing a better job than I ever did.

[Terinox]

First off, I have not read this thread yet (too long to read right now, so I dunno if someone posted something similar or what not). Anywho...

For me it's really complicated. For many many years I've been an athiest, and I still kind of am, but not really ... See, it's hard to explain.

The concept of God and religion I personally find ridiculous. Pretty much all of them I believe have gone to extremes and have no answers to too many questions. Personally EYE believe it was created by people to control others, and also a way to make money (more so in the past then now, but it has stuck).

Here is what I do kinda believe in though, there must be (IMO) some sort of supreme power, or supreme being. But to NAME that thing, and to actually classify it, is stupid (to me). There is no one who can know this for sure, it could a sort of undiscovered energy, maybe a life form, but far too advanced. I really don't like the theory that it's some invisible THING that sees all and controls all like Descarte believes. It's just too complex, and that's actually why I don't like thinking about it, because THERE IS NO FINAL ANSWER. It's like one giant mystery, and therefore, it seems at the same time POINTLESS to even consider it or pursue these questions of "Is there a God?" or "Where do we go when we die?" It seems we should just concentrate on our lives, and just worry about living a good and pure life, and helping those in need, etc...

Now, however, OF COURSE I do think about it every now and then, just like anyone else does. And the problem for me is the whole deal pretty much. Our brains have evolved too far it seems. It kinda like saying, IF there was a God, then he messed up, and the "game" went to far. We've reached a time in our lives where we can do SO much, building things that are insane, space travel, micro-technology, computers, medical sciences, all these are MIND BOGGLING fields. HOWEVER, when it comes to a simple thing as "WHY?" it just KILLS us to even think about all this.

The main that pretty much that pisses me off is that how did it all begin. If it was some sort of "big bang theory" then SOMEONE or SOMETHING had to start it. Whether it was a "God" or just some supreme being, we will NEVER know. And then you say, what if it was God? Well, if you really think about it, even a GOD had to be created by SOMETHING OR SOMEONE! In ALL of human existence, we have seen that SOMETHING does NOT come from NOTHING. You can't just create things out of nothing. SOMETHING had to start it all.

Now, some may say, well those answers will be answered in heaven. And that's IF there even is an afterlife, and one would hope there IS, because it would seem like SUCH a big waste. Cuz when you just sit and think about it really hard, there IS no answer, and that's why it sometimes HURTS MY BRAIN to think about it too deeply!! LOL!!! I mean, it's pure chicken and egg theory, what came first?!? If it was the big bang, then something had to start it, and if it was God, he can't JUST "exist" even HE had to come from something, from some sort of existence.

IT ALL seems like one giant game. It's a puzzle that truly can't be answered. Scientists (if they were ever able to even go all the way back to the big bang, and track all activities up to that point) THEN what?!? We are stuck AGAIN. You can NEVER breach that barrier, because of existence BEGAN with the Big Bang, then there was NOTHING before it to discover/study. HOWEVER, there MUST have been, because like I said, SOMETHING doesn't just come from NOTHING.

MAN o MAN, taking PHL in school has REALLY ****ed up my head, HAHAHAH!!

Yeah, so that's my theory in a nutshell. Although, it's no real theory. It basically says that IMO I don't think we will ever find the answers. Basically we are stuck, and if there is a "supreme being" he is either pissed off at himself for letting it go this far, or he's laughing his ass off because he knows there is no answer that can ever be 100%. So it all goes back to the ORIGINAL question of WHY?!?!?!?! It's just ONE GIANT CYCLE!

GOD DAMMIT!!!



This really calls for a ... <-- Cuz that don't make sense either

[ripsid]

I've read some of the posts in this thread not all, I'll read the rest tonight, but I wanted to get my point in before I leave work. I also wanted to point something else out.
1st, I believe that there is something greater than this place or consciousness that we call life. I am a Catholic, but I don't go to church every weekend although I know I should. I do pray every night before I goto bed, I have my kids in CCD, and I think I practice a decent life in gods eyes. Although, I know I have failed him and me on many occasions, but that's because I am human and I ask for his forgiveness while admitting my failures as mine. I also try to do good to others and do so at my own costs at times in hope that it will make up for my failures. I hope, that one day I will be able meet him after spending quality time with my lost ones. I have no proof of any of this happening, but I do think it has to be there. Too many unanswered questions!
I also question life and things that happen! I don't see the point in a small child loosing it's life to some F*K that would dare take it! I don't understand many things that happen, but hope that there is a reason a greater good for this soul. Today, I heard that my wifes kick boxing instructor and mywood be BJJ instructor has lymphoma! He's got days left! This is a guy who's not even 30 and from all that I saw was a good guy. But he's 30 and is now loosing a battle that I hope none of us have to fight!
I got off track sorry. Anyways, my .02, I hope that my belief is right and that God the father of Christ is true... and I know that by hoping I am failing him, but like was said earlier in a post BY THE WELL EDUCATED Big Green "If there does exist a God I would think he would want his creations to at least have the courage and insight to question his existence".
I could go on forever on this.

SID