View Poll Results: How do you feel about labor unions
- Voters
- 26. You may not vote on this poll
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strongly support them
13 50.00% -
Strongly opposed to them
8 30.77% -
Right to work with out membership
3 11.54% -
Dont care
2 7.69%
Thread: Labor Unions
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03-18-2004, 11:03 PM #41
sorry guys but i have to go to sleep we can continue this tomorrow
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03-19-2004, 12:11 AM #42
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Last edited by markas214; 03-19-2004 at 12:22 AM.
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03-19-2004, 01:29 AM #43
Unions, personally I ****ing hate them, they are just not for me. Been there, done that.....would opt not to take a job in order to avoid the BS and baggage that comes with being a union member. I truly believe I am better off in a 'free market' situation. I can understand how not everyone would feel the same way tho.
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03-19-2004, 01:55 AM #44
Originally Posted by jcstomper
1) Then you have never worked for UPS. I did for one Xmas season, and I'll tell you what, I've never worked as hard before or since. Those guys flat out work their tails off, compete with a government-subsidized US Post Office for shipping parcels, and still are more profitible.
The reason -- UPS has better management than the US Post Office.
2) God should strike you dead for this one . . . Here in Texas, there are no labor unions involved with road construction. Yet, they're always tearing up the highways and taking forever to do it. Geez, they've been working on Central Expressway for the past 25 years that I've been in Dallas, and they are Still Working On It.
3) That's a problem that happens to non-union companies too, and in either case, it happens because of poor management.
Decent managers know when a worker is slacking and have methods to boost that worker's productivity. Lousy managers don't.
So whether a company suceeds or fails is not the fault of the union; it is always 100% always 100% the responsibility of the management.
-Tock
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03-19-2004, 08:03 AM #45
New Member
- Join Date
- Jan 2004
- Posts
- 30
Well,, it seems that people who have never been in a union hate them<< And people that have been with one support them because they know what its all about . People that are in a Union know boths sides of the fence. People that never was in any only knows the non union side....Thats my opinion as a Union member
Hitter
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03-19-2004, 08:31 AM #46
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Well your true colors sure are shinning! You are the one to talk.
And fella. I will be a firefighter the rest of my life. Im actually doing something with my life. I actually work at a place where i give back. its more rewarding then you will ever know.
Settle for less? you say! I have worked my ass off to get where i am, I went to the freaking pentagon durring 9/11 with the TN. task force one, bro. I have done countless hours of training for weapons of mass destruction, Hazordous materials. Im a E.M.T, I have my associates degree in fire science, i could easily be an arson investigator for some high dollar insurance co. or private firm. I have been a single parent raising my son by myself since he was 2 months old .Fella you have no idea about me. So dont go there.
Settle for less naaa.. My standards are well above any you have mentioned.
I never started telling you how you are. i could easily say, you are a self centered closed minded,controlling,passive aggressive,liberal.
As far as your city. trust me, when the tyson fight came to memphis, there was a big hopla over it. Sure it brought some funds in...temporarily. no big deal.
get off your horse bro,and wake up to the real world...no punt intended.
And just remeber the next time you need a public servant. more than likely they will be a union member,they will be one of those who you say "settle for less" but you know what? They will still come for your ass and never think twice about risking theirs to protect yours. People like you are the reason we have unions. Your the type that looks at a firefighter washing his vehicle at the station and go "them lazy azz guys, we pay them to do nothing, im not voting for a 1/2 cent sales tax increase for them a raise" but what you dont realize is that while you are sleeping they are out there working,somewhere,doing something. Some never get to come home.But that is the risk we take,but yet I setlle for less??? Youve got your wires crossed buddy,and you are starting to piss me off, so will not be responding to your ignorance,any more.
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03-19-2004, 09:07 AM #47
Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
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03-19-2004, 09:10 AM #48
Originally Posted by jcstomper
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03-19-2004, 09:28 AM #49
Originally Posted by jcstomper
i will say i must have misunderstood your comment regarding the firefighters,and police..etc. I appologize
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03-19-2004, 09:34 AM #50
I actually just spoke to my buddy the union plumber last night, and he filled me on a few ideas.. I remember someone mentioned that if you are union, this means job security.. He said this is true, and i can see how people could take advantage of it, but he insued that lazy muthafukers don't last long in Unions, especially in Detroit.. I'm sure alot of locals are the same way.. The training, and schooling the unions put these tradesmen through are at universities, and by the time they turn journeymen, they have a bachelors in engineering and labor relations.. I can't see it any other way as far working in a trade.. I don't disagree with independent contractors.. Who wouldn't want job security, steady work, and an entire board of bros backing you up, making sure you always have work to do..
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03-19-2004, 10:44 AM #51
Originally Posted by monster.
Unions and their board members,are some rough fellas. They dont play. You make them look bad,or misrepresent your job,and the local that represents you, Youre pretty much screwed. I dont mean you do what the union wants or your outta here. i mean screwing around on the job and taking advantage of union benefits. They are trying to be appealing tp the public and prove that unions are a good thing. the last thing they want is a bunck of lazy sob's on the job, taking advantage of the unions strength. trust me i also served as the president from 99-02. I have had my share of those come to my office with B.S
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03-19-2004, 10:48 AM #52
Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
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03-19-2004, 10:51 AM #53
i definatly support the unions. why work harder longer hours for less pay and get treated like **** by your employers. The employers are the ones against unions because it takes power away from them and gives it to the worker. IMO i dont see how neone can be against benifits, pension, medical, dental, more vaction better overtime pay, safer work conditions. It the better choice for u and your family.
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03-19-2004, 10:58 AM #54
I can complain about union laziness (as Ive seen it), but in the end I think they balance against corporate america. What I despise is teh role government plays in teh process. what I mean is that government can force a worker to pay the union even if he doesnt belong to it. this is wrong!
I had to do this myself as a grad student. the grad student body (read all teh arts and english majors) voted to unionize. unfortunately that included engineering. so this meant a few unfortunate facts: even though we had before then negotiating our own deals, now we couldnt do that and couldnt force our departments to increase pay on our own. this also meant that although we didnt want to be union MEMBERS, we could be forced to pay a fee to the union. The difference between Membership dues and mandatory fee? 0.1%.
Plain and simply government should let the unions and business come to their own balance. if you don't want to be in a union, you shouldnt have to pay one cent. at some point the union will lose members such that it has no power and business will take advantage thus driving union memebership up.
in a nutshell...any direct or indirect act of creating a closed shop should be illegal.
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03-19-2004, 11:05 AM #55
what would you guys say if your unions fight each other? cause that what they do in my city
http://www.theinternetparty.org/comm...100&page_sort=
http://www.econsult.com/e_news_convention.htm
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m.../article.jhtml
http://www.post-gazette.com/localnew...onvention6.asp
http://www.philadelphiaweekly.com/ar...asp?ArtID=4800
http://www.usaenews.com/view.php?ID=129
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...orld17-ON.html
i think thats enough for you guys right now, if you like i can get more example of how screwed up the unions in this town are
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03-19-2004, 11:11 AM #56
Originally Posted by jcstomper
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03-19-2004, 11:12 AM #57
Originally Posted by jcstomper
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03-19-2004, 11:20 AM #58
Originally Posted by markas214
Originally Posted by markas214
Originally Posted by markas214
Originally Posted by markas214
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03-19-2004, 11:23 AM #59
Originally Posted by Bigbowboski
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03-19-2004, 11:30 AM #60
Originally Posted by jcstomper
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03-19-2004, 11:39 AM #61
Originally Posted by monster.
Last edited by jcstomper; 03-19-2004 at 11:42 AM.
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03-19-2004, 11:45 AM #62
I am strongly opposed to unions. (I was a member in the past)
There was a time and place for them but that time has passed.
D
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03-19-2004, 11:47 AM #63
I re-read my post, I'm sorry i didn't reply the way i wanted... Trust me i read the article.. That's how it goes, i bet someone bitched pretty bad, to make a huge deal like that: a union carpenter taking credit for what a union electrican should of done.. That does happen, everyones got egos ya know.. JC you're a contractor, you know how the trades work, its like someone taking credit for a job you should be doing, of course you would bitch.. After reading all those articles, I don't think the problems lie with the unions in Philly, I think it's more complicated then that IMO..
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03-19-2004, 12:14 PM #64
Originally Posted by monster.
another thing i wouldnt bitch if someone was doing my job, it would just make me bid lower next time, or find a way to cut costs so that the next time i got the job and not them. i wouldnt cry about it, id learn from itLast edited by jcstomper; 03-19-2004 at 12:27 PM.
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03-19-2004, 12:52 PM #65
Originally Posted by Diesel
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03-19-2004, 12:57 PM #66
Originally Posted by jcstomper
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03-19-2004, 02:36 PM #67
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Last edited by markas214; 03-19-2004 at 02:42 PM.
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03-19-2004, 03:12 PM #68
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Seems to me that if the company involved had better management, they would have anticipated this sort of problem, and would have taken steps to avoid these problems. That's what managers are paid to do . . . get things done, and avoid problems.
-Tock
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03-19-2004, 04:07 PM #69
Originally Posted by markas214
Originally Posted by markas214
now that i own my own business the above is true, i can wake up when ever i feel like it and work when ever. im only self employeed, a true business owner could leave his business for a year and come back and it would be still running just as good, if not better then when he left. there's a big differance there. my business isnt that far yet. id actually like to start up a franchise also cause that is the type of business you can usually do very good with out much imput on your half other then start up money
Originally Posted by markas214
and i agree with the toll it takes on family, thats why i dont have one yet. im only 23 and dont plan on doing any of that type of stuff till at least 26 or so, id like my wife to never work at all, so i wanna make sure everything like that is taken care of before i start to stray from business and onto family life
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03-19-2004, 04:08 PM #70
Originally Posted by Tock
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03-19-2004, 04:25 PM #71
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Yep.
But it is still Management's job to get things done, union or no union, corrupt or no.
An interesting book is Martin Levitt's "Confessions of a Union Buster." The author used to pull dirty tricks, lies, and etc to undermine unions. He tells the stories of ten companies he worked for, either busting or defeating union elections. Not pretty pictures.
Martin Levitt was also an alcoholic, and things got so bad in his personal life that he wound up in a 12 Step program, and as one of those 12 steps requires the individual to confess and make amends to those he has hurt, one of the things he has done is stop pulling the dirty tricks, and went to work for the AFL-CIO giving them advice on how to get around other union busters.
Amazon probably still has it . . .
--Tock
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03-19-2004, 06:15 PM #72
Somebody's been brianwashed by Rich Dad
In case it wasn't clear in my earlier post, I have been a member of two massive unions. To this day I avoid unions like the plague.....they do nothing for me. They were necesary before the advent of occupational health and safety legislation, nowadays they are irrelevant and just artificially inflate the cost of labour. And IAFF?.....fireman (yes they are overpaid in many areas) are just plain lucky that they have the job they do.
Originally Posted by jcstomper
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03-19-2004, 08:10 PM #73
Originally Posted by chicamahomico
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03-20-2004, 12:25 AM #74
Originally Posted by jcstomper
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03-20-2004, 08:39 AM #75
Originally Posted by markas214
but from what you just said your only investments are your retirement accounts, and your education funds. your house isnt a investment, it doesnt put money in your pocket is what im trying to say
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03-20-2004, 09:18 AM #76
Originally Posted by jcstomper
Money, money, money. I already said money isn't that important to me. I have enough to live as I choose. I do get interest and dividends. It's not enough to retire on but I enjoy my job and I'm willing to work into my sixties. You're right housing is an expense but when you own at least you build some equity and it is a liquid assest.
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03-20-2004, 10:53 AM #77
Originally Posted by markas214
now if you had a couple of duplex's and had renters pay your equity loans then yes it would be a asset, you can take the tax free equity loans, do what ever you want with them, and the renter would be the ones paying off the loan. do you see the differance between that and taking out a loan on your own property that you foot the bill?
and money is important to ya, you want your family to live well dont ya? just messin with ya. but money no matter what runs the world, it sucks but its life what can ya do?
just a question for ya. do you really wanna work till your sixities or are you joking around?Last edited by jcstomper; 03-20-2004 at 10:56 AM.
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03-20-2004, 01:09 PM #78
My mom''s 70 and still working as a nurse. I won't work full time but it will keep me busy. Money is important as I do like to live well but not of utmost importance in my life.
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04-01-2004, 01:33 PM #79
i support labor unions
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04-01-2004, 04:49 PM #80
Well Vid...since you dug up this old thread....I too support the unions. I am a member of the elevator constructors union. And if it weren't for the union I wouldn't be making s**t and my benefits would suck. The company I work for keeps whittling away at their non-union managements pay and retirement etc. But they cant touch us. They do this to their loyal college educated employees even though our stock has steadily increased over the years. And the unions misappropriations are a drop in the bucket in comparison to the high end greed that pervades the upper management in corporate america in general!
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