really necessary to pyramid.

**Dobie-BOY** · 08-20-2004, 07:46 PM

I was thinking I would not taper up, but would taper down at the end.

**SportsMedVIP** · 08-20-2004, 07:47 PM

Originally Posted by Dobie-BOY

I was thinking I would not taper up, but would taper down at the end.

That's a bad idea. Tapering down only gives you lesl gains and more sides. You won't do anything to improve your recovery as minimal amounts of steroids will keep you shut down. So in short all you're doing is cutting your gains short. There's no good reason to taper.

**Dobie-BOY** · 08-20-2004, 07:51 PM

estrogen levels will be higher after cycle and a sudden drop off will cause bitch tits.

**dumblucky** · 08-20-2004, 07:55 PM

dude , you have to do some up to date research
tapering is OLD school and as far as estrogen levels...do you know what PCT is??

**SportsMedVIP** · 08-20-2004, 07:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dobie-BOY

estrogen levels will be higher after cycle and a sudden drop off will cause bitch tits.

Yeah, if you are doing other things wrong such as not running anti-e's and/or PCT.

**Dobie-BOY** · 08-20-2004, 08:01 PM

I can't get any anti E's. You are right though, I do need to get up to date, it has been years since I have researched much. What are PCT's?

**SportsMedVIP** · 08-20-2004, 08:03 PM

PCT = Post Cycle Therapy . It is a must. Go to the PCT forum and learn all about it. You also need, and I mean NEED anti-e's to do this right.

**Dobie-BOY** · 08-20-2004, 08:08 PM

What are the negatives of cycling without anti E's. I just started a cycle today and I can't get any anti E's. I do have some clomid, will that do? I have heard that the high estrogen levels play a part in the cycle and post cycle depression. Is this true?

**SportsMedVIP** · 08-20-2004, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dobie-BOY

What are the negatives of cycling without anti E's. I just started a cycle today and I can't get any anti E's. I do have some clomid, will that do? I have heard that the high estrogen levels play a part in the cycle and post cycle depression. Is this true?

How much is some Clomid?

**Dobie-BOY** · 08-20-2004, 08:13 PM

about 60 tabs. I think they are 50 mgs

**big4nuthin** · 08-20-2004, 08:32 PM

I always taper down regardless of what the new school thinks. I take 4 weeks to do it and what I have noticed is less sides especially with acne, mood, and gyno. I also notice when I get down to HRT levels with my test, I usually dont have to PCT that long. About 2-3 weeks then right back on. I have added about 30lbs of solid muscle over the last 2 years since employing the taper down method. I have never gone over 800 mgs a week of test and only ran a cycle that high once or twice for 8 weeks. I like smaller dosages for longer periods. I just started insulin and love it. I guess you just have to find what works for you.

**almostgone** · 08-21-2004, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dobie-BOY

What are the negatives of cycling without anti E's. I just started a cycle today and I can't get any anti E's. the cycle and post cycle depression....

Breasts, water retention,.....you might not feel fresh all the time...no, ignore the last one, and I'd follow Ecoastvip's advice on the PCT...good luck

**einstein1905** · 08-21-2004, 05:47 AM

I still hear some people recommending tapering their AAS doses

I just want to reiterate tapering versus not tapering. I would graph this, but I'm lazy.....
All of the following are arbitrary numbers and aren't meant to depict actual pharmacokinetics, with the exception of diminishing plasma concentrations due to half-lives.
Assume you are going to run an 8 week cycle, and that you you are injecting 500mg/wk of a compound with a 1 week half-life. For arguments sake, let's say you've established a constant plasma level of 1000ng/dL (arbitrary).

Situation A) You continue to inject 500mg/wk all the way through week 8 and then stop cold turkey

Situation B) You inject 500mg/wk weeks 1-6, week 7 you inject 250mg, and week 8 you inject 125mg.

Your plasma concentrations for each situation will be as follows:
A: wk 9= 500ng/dL, week 10= 250ng/dL, week 11= 125ng/dL, week 12= 62.5ng/dL

B: wk7= 750ng/dL, wk 8= 500ng/dL, week 9= 250ng/dL, wk 10= 125ng/dL, wk 11= 62.5ng/dL

So, you'll see that tapering doesn't do anything advantageous for us. The half-life of the compound takes care of the tapering for you. All tapering does is shorten the period of your cycle where you have a consistent peak plasma level, which reduces the time during which you'll see maximal gains.