Progesterone induced gynecomastia? Don't think so

[Pheedno]

I would like to cear up a few misconceptions about progesterone and gynecomastia .

Their is absolutely no steroid that aromatizes into progesterone. The reason for this is that progesteron does not have an aromatic A ring. So toss that myth out the window. Tren ? Deca ? Sorry but it just doesn't happen.

Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. Even more so when nandrolone is reduced by 5-alpha reductase into DHN. Their is a small chance of progestogenic activity that could aid in manifesting a mass in the mammry IF estrogen is present in supraphysiological amounts, without proper ratio to testosterone but I have never see a documented case of progestogenic gynecomastia. The reason for this is that the PR has two isoforms. The PR-A and PR-B. PR-B mediates stimulatory effects of progestins; PR-A which is bound with progestins or anti-progestins inhibits PR-B, and PR-A is dominant,. The response to progesterone is determined by the relative expression of the two isoforms.

There is a direct relationship between the PR isoforms and steroid concentrations an this direct relationship suggests high progesterone concentrations, but this will induce the expression of PR-A, which represses transcription of PR-B, which in turn supresses PR function and progestin effect
With initial administration of nandrolone or it's dirivitives, I could see an expression of PR-B but a rapid rise in PR-A will ultimately supress the function of the PR. IMO, you would need a high ratio of the two before concerns, and this is a bit more of a possiblity with the begining of administration. In this time of vulnerability, rest assured in aromatase inhibitors as progesterone is an E2 agonist so the utilization of an AI will help. I personally don't think the concern is warranted though

Their are 4 combinations of hormones that cause gyno- Estrogen, Progesterone, Prolactin, and IGF. Nandrolone is a weak progestin, which agonizes the PRL, it also raises IGF. Progesterone induced gyno is not really of a concern given binding affinity to the PR and the mechanism of the two isoforms. The production of prolactin is a deffinate risk. Not only can it be an inductor for gyno along side estrogen, IGF, and pogesterone; this chance is increased as prolactn lowers testosterone. So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well.

[General Patton]

Hey Pheendo, ya got my message? Any help? Anyway, learnin alot from ya. You obviously are a great source of knowledge.

[DF2003]

great post pheed!

[joevette]

Good to know. So we should still take 200mg of B6 with Deca and tren to lower prolactin levels?

[Money Boss Hustla]

Should be bumped!!

[BajanBastard]

Cool post.

[MER]

Very good post, I've never really had a prob with deca but I've heard of issues. I'll actually be doing a pretty heavy cycle including deca soon, what do you recommend to stay safe at high doses of of deca/test/drol

[LACBodybuilder]

Educational Threads is where this belongs. excellent post.

[Property of Steroid.com]

Now Tren and Deca bind pretty well to the PR. They are progestins in their own right without undergoing any structural changes, but their affinity is MUCH weaker than progesterone itself. .

Deca has progestigenic properties, meaning it binds to the progesterone receptor where it acts as an agonist (1). Just to give you an idea of the binding affinities of those two androgens to the progesterone receptor (PR), as compared to progesterone itself; progesterone itself has a relative binding affinity (RBA) of 100, wheras nandrolone 's RBA is 20 and trenbolone 's is 60 (2).

Ergo, Nandrolone binds to the progesterone receptor 20% as well as pure progesterone and Trenbolone binds 60% as well (2).

I don't know if 20% and 60% (!) could be proplerly termed "MUCH weaker".

(1) Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol 1997 May;19(4):215-22
Estrogenic and progestagenic activities of physiologic and synthetic androgens, as measured by in vitro bioassays.
Markiewicz L, Gurpide E.

(2) Cancer Res 1978 Nov;38(11 Pt 2):4186-98
Unique steroid congeners for receptor studies.
Ojasoo T, Raynaud JP.

[GetinBig]

Lets keep this one up top for a while.

Bump

[craneboy]

good info, thanks again pheedno

[BajanBastard]

Deca has progestigenic properties, meaning it binds to the progesterone receptor where it acts as an agonist (1). Just to give you an idea of the binding affinities of those two androgens to the progesterone receptor (PR), as compared to progesterone itself; progesterone itself has a relative binding affinity (RBA) of 100, wheras nandrolone 's RBA is 20 and trenbolone 's is 60 (2).

Ergo, Nandrolone binds to the progesterone receptor 20% as well as pure progesterone and Trenbolone binds 60% as well (2).

I don't know if 20% and 60% (!) could be proplerly termed "MUCH weaker".(1) Methods Find Exp Clin Pharmacol 1997 May;19(4):215-22
Estrogenic and progestagenic activities of physiologic and synthetic androgens, as measured by in vitro bioassays.
Markiewicz L, Gurpide E.

(2) Cancer Res 1978 Nov;38(11 Pt 2):4186-98
Unique steroid congeners for receptor studies.
Ojasoo T, Raynaud JP.

I was thinking the same thing. In any case i think prone individuals should use a PgR/ER antagonist.

[justincredible]

Hmmm. Bump.

[squatster]

don't no- I got my bitch tit that I had to get cut off from tren - sorry finnaject- when it was still around( the best **** I ever did) Kicked finna's ass
durty though- I had boils under my eyes.
Got strong and sredded as hell, gained 20 pounds and lost about 6% body fat in 12 weeks- was curling 225 for sets of 10 That **** was off the hook
I know many other vets from many , many boards that have had the same problem ( not saying any one is wrong but) at high leavels wouldn't thay affect estragen in some way shape or form? that was the only thing I was on for the year that year and never had any eratation to the nipple before that. I know the finnaject was real, the fakes were real bad then. It is not like today that thay are exact and you can buy the **** to make any thing any where and cheep as hell. Before thay sucked
what do you think?

[squatster]

sorry finaplex- wow I forgot the name That was 15 years ago- I have it writen in my jurnal- I will look for it and tell doeses. It was pritty strange how we did things back then , all pyramid,

[GREENMACHINE]

Bump.

[***xxx***]

bump

[wolfyEVH]

Bump

[Dude-Man]

In all of the reports i've read, progesterone/progestins themselves are not significantly feminizing. However, they tend to elevate prolactin levels. It makes sense that prolactin is the reason that people come down with 19-nor related gynecomastia . Cabergoline and Bromocryptine have both shown themselves to be effective in greatly reducing prolactin levels, and there are enough anecdotal stories of their effectiveness in preventing/treating gyno that it's become common place.

[thebrakes]

the most important thing to know about progesterone-induced gyno is that it GENERALLY DOESNT OCCUR WITHOUT SIGNIFICANT ESTROGEN. prog gyno only manifests when it has plenty of estrogen (ie. that which aromatizes from the test you are running alongside the tren ) to aggravate. key word is AGGRAVATE.

tren solo is not likely to induce prog gyno. in fact, very unlikely as tren has anti-e properties. anadrol - same deal. significant progesterone binding affinity that when coupled to a test regimen can make for prog gyno.

run an AI with your test or other aromatizing compounds, and you are very unlikely to get gyno of either kind.

i can break out the studies but i'll have to hunt them down...and by the way, this has to get the award for "most misleading title" - -

"Progesterone induced gynecomastia ? Don't think so" but the concluding sentence is: "So you need to make sure to take proper precautions to not only keep estrogen in check, but prolactin as well."...unless your point was to indicate the semantic difference between prog and prolactin, which most ppl use interchangeably when it comes to gyno manifestation.

[mule1983]

bump

[greekboy]

While you all are talking about tren . Anyone know of anything about pet's pharma trenbolon 75??? Im getting ready to start a cycle of that with winny. What are my most major risks with this stack?

[thebrakes]

While you all are talking about tren. Anyone know of anything about pet's pharma trenbolon 75??? Im getting ready to start a cycle of that with winny. What are my most major risks with this stack?

tren and winny??? yikes. do some research.