Does milk thistle interfere with protein synthesis?

[gya321]

I read some articles about this and I wanted to know your opinions on it. Some people only take it after the cycle for these reasons

[magicstick2003]

i don;t know about the protein synthesis part but many take it DURING cycle when running orals in order to help out the liver..

[BigJames]

What about when running injectables? My buddy recommended milk thistle for my upcoming test/Eq cycle.

[Mesomorphyl]

What about when running injectables? My buddy recommended milk thistle for my upcoming test/Eq cycle.

Because he heard someone else say it.

[sooners04]

I dont think milk thistle helps after your done. When you take whatever gear your on it passes through the liver, some are harder than others on the liver. Thats why you should take it everyday so it helps when the liver tries to filter the gear.

[dieseL atC]

I'm still not convinced Milk Thistle is effective enough to spend the money on it...

[BeerBaron]

I'm still not convinced Milk Thistle is effective enough to spend the money on it...

It's like 10 bucks for 30 capsules. I use it because I am currently on d-bol.

[DoctaBig]

i would like to know the mechanism by which milk thistle acts as a hepatoprotectant. I currently take it based on popular suggestion, but i dont know exactly how it works

[DoctaBig]

Mechanisms of Action
Evidence exists that milk thistle may be hepatoprotective through a number of mechanisms: antioxidant activity, toxin blockade at the membrane level, enhanced protein synthesis, antifibriotic activity, and possible anti-inflammatory or immunomodulating effects.

there is your answer...yes

[BeerBaron]

http://www.ahrq.gov/clinic/epcsums/milktsum.htm
Here is ther entire article that DoctaBig quoted.

[DoctaBig]

lol...i guess i could have given the link...


I'm still looking for a better article something more primary..

[gya321]

well im currently taken it with my cycle, but some pros have said they will only use it after since it messes up the protein synthesis.

[BajanBastard]

Anyone notice that drugs/supps that you should take on cycle to protect you from bad sides always "hinder" gains......Nolva, A.Is and now milk thistle?

[DoctaBig]

lol....perfect night for this question. I started studying for my pharmacotheraputics exam on friday and one of the sections is on herbal products. I'll tell you exactly what is printed in my notes (notes are from a very respected doctor of pharmacy program)

Mecyhanism of action:
a. produces antioxidants
b. STIMULATES activity of RNA polymerase A
c. Alters outer liver membrane cell structure

Efficacy:
Saller R et al. Drugs 2001;61(14):2035-63. Review of 36 studies with milk thistle. In alcoholic liver disease, prothrombin times and liver function tests improved. Milk thistle was shown to reduce liver-related mortality.

Dose:
200-400mg (standardized to 70-80% silymarin) per day, in 3 doses

[gya321]

I was just hoping there was no truth to these statements

[DoctaBig]

im confused here guys....you have medical literature in front of you that states that ribosomal RNA synthesis is stimulated by milk thistle. Have these pro's you mention produced any medical literature???? it appears as of right now that they are wrong!!!

[gya321]

Literature is defintely more respectable than some pros. Here is the quote by chris bennet." For the liver-during the off cycle onl- I recomend milk thistle. The reason I stress off cycle only is that some research shows that silymarin, the active compound in milk thistle, interferes with protein synthesis."

[DoctaBig]

im studying, so im kinda hurting for time....if you are not, do this.

goto...www.pubmed.com
for your search try words like: silymarin, milk thistle....see if you can find that literature, i would be very interested

[DoctaBig]

not relevent but interesting:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15510919

[gya321]

Just read that one it is interesting, Im looking for something to back these statements but I dont think its true. Maybe chris isnt too knowledgable.

[DoctaBig]

the only reason 've ever heard for not using milk thistle on cycle was that it made the liver more efficient at destroying oral steroids.

That could be an issue because it causes increases in hepatocytes. I think that the hepatocycte increase's would just allow for the liver to better recover from damage caused by the orals. Basically i believe it would lead to more stable levels of orals. Think of it like this: you start your cycle out and your liver is 100% so orals are being cleared at a rate of lets say 10. if you use oral's over time your liver will degrade lets say after a few weeks it is at 90% there for your clearance would only be a 9 translating into higher levels of androgens in the blood (because they were not cleared/eliminated/metabolized). If you use a hepatoprotectant such as milk thistle you are allowing your liver to delay its destruction. So after a few weeks your liver will be at 98% with a clearance of 9.8.

*disclaimer*This is my specualtion based on my knowledge of hepatic elimination of drugs, i dont have any clinical literature to back that up.

[DoctaBig]

Just read that one it is interesting, Im looking for something to back these statements but I dont think its true. Maybe chris isnt too knowledgable.

do some research on pubmed bro...thats what us clinicians do when we need answers, usually the answer is out there