After BASKETKACE thread,is 500mg test neccess???

[Cuttup]

ive got my cycle lined up and ready to go shortly but am having 2nd thoughts of my doses. Is 500mg really necessary for a first cycle? After reading Basketkace's thread on what he showed us about Arnold, Mike Mentzer, Frank Zane and others,...none of those guys really used alot of test IF ANY!!! They were Primo, Deca and Dbol . As ive told you all before,..i come to the game with a ton of experience in BOdyBuilding, I walk the walk and talk the talk. Most think im already juiced up cause of my strength and size,..but as for AS,..im still new to the game and have spent several months doing as much research as possible.
My question is ( and read BasketKace's thread before responding ) is 500mg per week of test e necess? Im a very large guy and have been lifting from the age 16 to 26......i was wondering if 250mg per week would give me the same results...... just looking to break the barriers, a little more size and strength. again,..those guys rarely even included test in there cycles,..and they look f@ckin awesome!!!!!!!!! im wondering if i should stick with primo and some milder things. Most of you will say,..TEST is the Best and the base of every cycle,..again,..read Basket thread to get a better insight,..Vets Hollar back..Thanks.

[wallycn]

ive got my cycle lined up and ready to go shortly but am having 2nd thoughts of my doses. Is 500mg really necessary for a first cycle? After reading Basketkace's thread on what he showed us about Arnold, Mike Mentzer, Frank Zane and others,...none of those guys really used alot of test IF ANY!!! They were Primo, Deca and Dbol . As ive told you all before,..i come to the game with a ton of experience in BOdyBuilding, I walk the walk and talk the talk. Most think im already juiced up cause of my strength and size,..but as for AS,..im still new to the game and have spent several months doing as much research as possible.
My question is ( and read BasketKace's thread before responding ) is 500mg per week of test e necess? Im a very large guy and have been lifting from the age 16 to 26......i was wondering if 250mg per week would give me the same results...... just looking to break the barriers, a little more size and strength. again,..those guys rarely even included test in there cycles,..and they look f@ckin awesome!!!!!!!!! im wondering if i should stick with primo and some milder things. Most of you will say,..TEST is the Best and the base of every cycle,..again,..read Basket thread to get a better insight,..Vets Hollar back..Thanks.

use test, primo won't get you what you want

[spooledup]

What is your goal?

To get as absolutely big as possible? Or to add just a few pounds of lean quality mass?

Btw, I'm one of the AAS users who doesn't use test and I'm very happy with my gains.

Could you link to the basketcase thread please? I can't find it. Thx.

[Cuttup]

What is your goal?

To get as absolutely big as possible? Or to add just a few pounds of lean quality mass?

Btw, I'm one of the AAS users who doesn't use test and I'm very happy with my gains.

Could you link to the basketcase thread please? I can't find it. Thx.

well all of us want to add plenty of more size,..i dont have to get freaky,..my point is arnold and those guys didnt use alot of test if any and look at them,..those are great goals.

[1-Cent]

250mg won't get you the same results as 500mg, Bask8case has said that before, if you're happy with 15-20lbs max then 250mg is alright for your needs, but you won't see 20-30+lbs like a lot of people get on their first go with 500mg.

[Sage]

it may work for one person, but not the other........i was a solid activist of low dose cycles and did them myself without any complains, but when i put my friend on one and we closely monitored his gains....well, in his case we absolutely had to bump the test to 500mgs and deca to 400mgs instead of 300/200 and the bro grew like weed......

so, it is a debatable subject and u can go either way, but skinny guys should still shoot for a low dose imo...

[ArkansasAlex]

Plus different people respond differently to different ammounts of AAS,, or TEST inparticular, it depends on your natural lvls I think

Peace
Alex

[Property of Steroid.com]

250mg won't get you the same results as 500mg,.

[toolman]

My very first cycle was 250 test and I gained 24 lbs in 10 weeks, kept 19. I can't see gaining much more than that. There are two camps on here, those of us that grow on the least we can, and those that say use more. Who knows who's right as we all claim to be. It's up to your own philosophy. If you are lifting, eating and resting right, it does not take alot of gear to grow.

[Jackman]

well all of us want to add plenty of more size,..i dont have to get freaky,..my point is arnold and those guys didnt use alot of test if any and look at them,..those are great goals.

when did arnold tell you this?

[JohnnyB]

That main point of low dose cycle is that your diet is the most important factor in a cycle not the amount of gear. Rule of thumb, you can do 1 gram of test or any gear but if you don't eat you'll gain little to no lbs. Where you can do no gear and eat the right amount of food and you'll make gains.

The higher the dose, the higher the possibility of unwanted side effects. The older BBers didn't use test but they didn't have the information we have today either. Test is what men are made of, besides all AAS has it origin from test.

There's a misconception that high dose cycle are somehow "hardcore" cycles, there not hardcore there just high dose, with the posibility of hardcore side effets.

I've done 6 cycle and yet to get to 600mg a week and I'm on 100mg a week when not cycling for HRT.

JohnnyB

[Pork Chop]

Pro BB'er runs average 10,000mg's a week indefinitly including various experimental drugs you and i never heard of. (If you believe otherwise, then use 10mg of Dbol a day and i shall cheer for you at the Mr. Universe.).

500mg test is a good starting point. Increase it as your gains slow for about 18 weeks.

[Pork Chop]

That main point of low dose cycle is that your diet is the most important factor in a cycle not the amount of gear. Rule of thumb, you can do 1 gram of test or any gear but if you don't eat you'll gain little to no lbs. Where you can do no gear and eat the right amount of food and you'll make gains.

The higher the dose, the higher the possibility of unwanted side effects. The older BBers didn't use test but they didn't have the information we have today either. Test is what men are made of, besides all AAS has it origin from test.

There's a misconception that high dose cycle are somehow "hardcore" cycles, there not hardcore there just high dose, with the posibility of hardcore side effets.

I've done 6 cycle and yet to get to 600mg a week and I'm on 100mg a week when not cycling for HRT.

JohnnyB

Is that you in the avatar?

[JohnnyB]

Is that you in the avatar?

You mean you know that pro bbers do 10,000mg a week but you don't know who that is in my avatar? It's "The Myth" himself the original mass monster

JohnnyB

[JohnnyB]

Pro BB'er runs average 10,000Mgs a week indefinitely including various experimental drugs you and i never heard of. (If you believe otherwise, then use 10mg of Dbol a day and i shall cheer for you at the Mr. Universe.).

500mg test is a good starting point. Increase it as your gains slow for about 18 weeks.

The think this idea that they do these type of dose is nothing more the urban myth. Less brake these doses down. 250mg is the highest test that's not from a UG lab, deca 200mg unless it's vet or UG. Helll when the pros were using parabolan it was 76mg/1.5ml, so to do 760mg a week of para they'd have to do 15ml's of oil not including any test or other drug.

So let say that all the gear they use is 250mg for the sake of argument, that's 40mls of oil a week. Let say they do 4mls in the glute and quads, that 16mls of oil. Here's may question where are they putting the other 24mls of oil? Remember you said indefinitely, with that much oil they'd be a walking abcess, with tha much oil you're going to get infection because there's only so many places you can inject.

I read the article about a bber (can't remember name) doing 10,000mg a week, it was BS. I don't know about pro bbers but most people that are on continually adjust their doses. Raising and lowering doses, but never high doses continually.

JohnnyB

[Jackman]

you would gain 5ilb of just oil a week

The think this idea that they do these type of dose is nothing more the urban myth. Less brake these doses down. 250mg is the highest test that's not from a UG lab, deca 200mg unless it's vet or UG. Helll when the pros were using parabolan it was 76mg/1.5ml, so to do 760mg a week of para they'd have to do 15ml's of oil not including any test or other drug.

So let say that all the gear they use is 250mg for the sake of argument, that's 40mls of oil a week. Let say they do 4mls in the glute and quads, that 16mls of oil. Here's may question where are they putting the other 24mls of oil? Remember you said indefinitely, with that much oil they'd be a walking abcess, with tha much oil you're going to get infection because there's only so many places you can inject.

I read the article about a bber (can't remember name) doing 10,000mg a week, it was BS. I don't know about pro bbers but most people that are on continually adjust their doses. Raising and lowering doses, but never high doses continually.

JohnnyB

[moush]

so my third cycle would have to be changed then.....hmmm

[JohnnyB]

so my third cycle would have to be changed then.....hmmm

what's it look like and what are your stats with cycle history. Instead of us jacking this thread pm me and i'll give you my opinion

JohnnyB

[JohnnyB]

you would gain 5ilb of just oil a week

JohnnyB

[toolman]

Pro BB'er runs average 10,000mg's a week indefinitly including various experimental drugs you and i never heard of. (If you believe otherwise, then use 10mg of Dbol a day and i shall cheer for you at the Mr. Universe.).

500mg test is a good starting point. Increase it as your gains slow for about 18 weeks.

Oh great, porkchop is back with his crappy advice...recommending 18 weeks for a first cycle.

[BASK8KACE]

This is the second thread with my name written in the title. Hmmmm. I wonder who's behind this?

If you really want advice, you should give us more information about your stats, etcetera and what you're trying to accomplish.

But this is obviously more than that. So, let me say this (Since JohnnyB has already covered the main points):

If you're concerned about doses, raise your doses and try to find out if it works for you. Experimenting is the only way you'll learn.

But, I can save you some time if you heed this: If you don't have your diet in order, then hiking up your doses isn't going to help you.

Best of luck with your cycle.

[BigMike J]

Bask8kace hahah.. basketcase.

[BASK8KACE]

Bask8kace hahah.. basketcase.

It's a never ending battle

[100%NATURAL-theGH]

only thing I can say about the amount of gear that pros in the 60s and 70s and what they are doing today is.... NONE OF US HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN HOW MUCH THEY ARE DOING!... even if we saw them injecting several times a week... who's to say they don't do more... or even if they told their best friend how much they were using when... who's to say they would tell the truth... i mean... im sure they consider their doses and cycles a very secrative thing. I know this doesn't add much to the debate but I honestly think that we should judge how much AS we use on several levels...
-people on this board who are more than willing to share their honest experience with their cycles and their gains
-and more importantly, what you yourself feel while you are on and what you see... finding out for yourself is important in my eyes.... my first cycle I started with 500mg... then I dropped in some Deca ... then I upped the test e and the deca... I ended up doing 750mg Test E and 600mg Deca a week my first cycle.... I didn't notice any better gains necessarily but they continued to grow. I must admit my diet was not what it should have been and that was key... but you learn as you go right? SO QUIT TALKING ABOUT THIS STUPID SUBJECT AND FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELVES!

[Jack87]

My personal experience to this is my first cycle I gained
34lbs of only 300mg of Deca for 10 weeks with 25mg of
D-bol for 4 weeks at the start... Very low doses... My
2nd cycle 300mg deca/300mg test cyp for 10 weeks
again with about a 29lbs gain... Keeping most of the
gains from each cycle maybe losing 8-9lbs coming off...

Now Anything under 800mg of test does next to nothing
for me even with diet and training in check... And D-bol
is most effective for me on the 60mm-80mg range...

I believe your body builds up a tolerance to anabolcs like
almost any other drug... At some point it will take larger
amounts to yeild the resuults you seek... Low doses are
great for a beginner and your first 2-3 cycles, after that
all bets are off IMO...

[Jackman]

My personal experience to this is my first cycle I gained
34lbs of only 300mg of Deca for 10 weeks with 25mg of
D-bol for 4 weeks at the start... Very low doses... My
2nd cycle 300mg deca/300mg test cyp for 10 weeks
again with about a 29lbs gain... Keeping most of the
gains from each cycle maybe losing 8-9lbs coming off...

Now Anything under 800mg of test does next to nothing
for me even with diet and training in check... And D-bol
is most effective for me on the 60mm-80mg range...

I believe your body builds up a tolerance to anabolcs like
almost any other drug... At some point it will take larger
amounts to yeild the resuults you seek... Low doses are
great for a beginner and your first 2-3 cycles, after that
all bets are off IMO...

exact reason you should not start at more than 500mg. lets say you start at 1g and you get a tolerance why start that high when you dont need to.

[flabbywussy]

250mg won't get you the same results as 500mg, Bask8case has said that before, if you're happy with 15-20lbs max then 250mg is alright for your needs, but you won't see 20-30+lbs like a lot of people get on their first go with 500mg.

for me, i'm glad i started at 500mg, because i gained around 35 lbs. first cycle. about 10-15 lbs. of water + fat though. if i went 250 i think i would have gained less,but who knows?

[BASK8KACE]

only thing I can say about the amount of gear that pros in the 60s and 70s and what they are doing today is.... NONE OF US HAVE ACTUALLY SEEN HOW MUCH THEY ARE DOING!... even if we saw them injecting several times a week... who's to say they don't do more... or even if they told their best friend how much they were using when... who's to say they would tell the truth... i mean... im sure they consider their doses and cycles a very secrative thing. I know this doesn't add much to the debate but I honestly think that we should judge how much AS we use on several levels...
-people on this board who are more than willing to share their honest experience with their cycles and their gains
-and more importantly, what you yourself feel while you are on and what you see... finding out for yourself is important in my eyes.... my first cycle I started with 500mg... then I dropped in some Deca... then I upped the test e and the deca... I ended up doing 750mg Test E and 600mg Deca a week my first cycle.... I didn't notice any better gains necessarily but they continued to grow. I must admit my diet was not what it should have been and that was key... but you learn as you go right? SO QUIT TALKING ABOUT THIS STUPID SUBJECT AND FIGURE IT OUT YOURSELVES!

100%NATURAL-theGH,

I'm actually sick of discussing this subject--I had actually stopped for a while, but...

The only reason why this keeps getting discussed is because there is a myth out there that people think that a weekly dose of 250mg or 300mg of tesosterone will get you no gains (250mg is way more than twice what the body manufactures per week). People were encouraging others to constantly raise doses. No matter what anyone posted, 5 or 6 people would suggest adding a bunch of other steroids to the stack and another 7 would suggest increasing doses. It was funny, but just bad advice.

If more people realized that good gains could be made at lower doses, then they'd stop wasting their money thinking that the only way to grow is by using high doses and 7 steroids stacked per cycle.

[Pork Chop]

Oh great, porkchop is back with his crappy advice...recommending 18 weeks for a first cycle.

PM a mod and cry about it. Meanwhile, you can maintain your exact shape and size year after year.

No need to get personal in every post.

[Pork Chop]

The think this idea that they do these type of dose is nothing more the urban myth. Less brake these doses down. 250mg is the highest test that's not from a UG lab, deca 200mg unless it's vet or UG. Helll when the pros were using parabolan it was 76mg/1.5ml, so to do 760mg a week of para they'd have to do 15ml's of oil not including any test or other drug.

So let say that all the gear they use is 250mg for the sake of argument, that's 40mls of oil a week. Let say they do 4mls in the glute and quads, that 16mls of oil. Here's may question where are they putting the other 24mls of oil? Remember you said indefinitely, with that much oil they'd be a walking abcess, with tha much oil you're going to get infection because there's only so many places you can inject.

I read the article about a bber (can't remember name) doing 10,000mg a week, it was BS. I don't know about pro bbers but most people that are on continually adjust their doses. Raising and lowering doses, but never high doses continually.

JohnnyB

sure the doses fluctuate (Jump in here Toolman, the pro's are doing something stupid and you know better) but yes, the doses are insane.

it's no problem shooting 3 cc's in a shoulder the size of a basketball.. or in a 20inch arm.. or 4 or 5cc's in a glute the size of an anvil.. or a 42" leg.. see what i mean?

[Cuttup]

at 6'2" 245 w 14% BF,..I really dont know if i want to through on another 30 pounds anyway,..thats 275 to 280,..which reminds me too much of my highschool lineman coach,.lol...but seriously,..id love to be at 255, with maybe 7% BF,...stregth is cool,.and sure,..id like to gain some,..but the strength is already there and isnt my first concern. 250 vs 500,..what a hard choice.

[Ntpadude]

ive got my cycle lined up and ready to go shortly but am having 2nd thoughts of my doses. Is 500mg really necessary for a first cycle? After reading Basketkace's thread on what he showed us about Arnold, Mike Mentzer, Frank Zane and others,...none of those guys really used alot of test IF ANY!!! They were Primo, Deca and Dbol . As ive told you all before,..i come to the game with a ton of experience in BOdyBuilding, I walk the walk and talk the talk. Most think im already juiced up cause of my strength and size,..but as for AS,..im still new to the game and have spent several months doing as much research as possible.
My question is ( and read BasketKace's thread before responding ) is 500mg per week of test e necess? Im a very large guy and have been lifting from the age 16 to 26......i was wondering if 250mg per week would give me the same results...... just looking to break the barriers, a little more size and strength. again,..those guys rarely even included test in there cycles,..and they look f@ckin awesome!!!!!!!!! im wondering if i should stick with primo and some milder things. Most of you will say,..TEST is the Best and the base of every cycle,..again,..read Basket thread to get a better insight,..Vets Hollar back..Thanks.

The reality is, GASP, Arnold really had the genes and worked **** hard to get where he got... his steroid use was minimal and had very little to do with his titles or appearance. In those days they didnt have anti-e technology so test was kept very low to avoid risk of gyno. For the most part the overall musculature of the greats were really hard earned, the only real time Arnold did roids was to force an extra 10 lbs on just prior to a competition and this I think he said once was something like dbol or drols. As we all know thats all these two pills are good for, fast weight and when you quit taking it the weight exits fast and you go back to where you were before in just a week or two.

[Ntpadude]

100%NATURAL-theGH,

I'm actually sick of discussing this subject--I had actually stopped for a while, but...

The only reason why this keeps getting discussed is because there is a myth out there that people think that a weekly dose of 250mg or 300mg of tesosterone will get you no gains (250mg is way more than twice what the body manufactures per week). People were encouraging others to constantly raise doses. No matter what anyone posted, 5 or 6 people would suggest adding a bunch of other steroids to the stack and another 7 would suggest increasing doses. It was funny, but just bad advice.

If more people realized that good gains could be made at lower doses, then they'd stop wasting their money thinking that the only way to grow is by using high doses and 7 steroids stacked per cycle.

I've done stacks... my last cycle was a gram a week of test for 7 months and included stacks of deca and 1-test along the way. Now I am just on 500 mg week test stacked with m1t and I am probably in my best cycle yet. Doing just as good or better then I did on the last one with 1 gram. On the low dose cycles.. the same rules that apply to natural training, change how you lift and change your routine every so often will make you grow... it applies just as much to steroids as anything else.

[Cuttup]

NTPADUDE,..i agree with you in a few ways. Yes arnold had great genes for his sport,.but there are a few pics of arnold out there from 20-25 years ago when he was off cycling and was just tiny,..so good or bad genes,..they helped him quite a bit,..however, I coulnt agree with you anymore on your statement of there dedication,..those guys lifted much more intensed, strict, and longere than 95% of BB'ers today do.

[catabolic kid]

cuttup, is that you in the avatar?

[Ntpadude]

NTPADUDE,..i agree with you in a few ways. Yes arnold had great genes for his sport,.but there are a few pics of arnold out there from 20-25 years ago when he was off cycling and was just tiny,..so good or bad genes,..they helped him quite a bit,..however, I coulnt agree with you anymore on your statement of there dedication,..those guys lifted much more intensed, strict, and longere than 95% of BB'ers today do.

Well but I've seen Arnold in an interview and he said the reason for weight decline was he had to eat 7000 calaries a day and 300 grams of protein to maintain that maximum size... it was too much for him to stay with it like that forever and along with the 7 day a week 3 hour a day workout schedule...

You know as the money started coming in, it didnt seem so important to stay at the tip top form and he started relaxing some, which is also something we'll all have to do as we get older.

[catabolic kid]

NTPADUDE,..i agree with you in a few ways. Yes arnold had great genes for his sport,.but there are a few pics of arnold out there from 20-25 years ago when he was off cycling and was just tiny,..so good or bad genes,..they helped him quite a bit,..however, I coulnt agree with you anymore on your statement of there dedication,..those guys lifted much more intensed, strict, and longere than 95% of BB'ers today do.

Arnold has average genetics for a bodybuilder...as for their dedication, yes, they were dedicated but not anymore dedicated than bbers today...arnold trained like 6-8 hours a day...that is overtraining...if this were the best way to train, bbers today would do the same.

[Cuttup]

cuttup, is that you in the avatar?

yeah, what do you think?

[JohnnyB]

cuttup, is that you in the avatar?

Come on Bro, you don't know who that is?

JohnnyB

[JohnnyB]

I think 500mg of test is fine, if you think 250mg is to low, do 350mg a week that 250mg of test every 5 days

JohnnyB