First cycle... advice welcome!

**Wino** · 01-15-2005, 03:51 AM

First off here are my stats
5'11, 180lbs, 4 years of weight training

I'll probably be doing this cycle in the summer or fall this year... but I figure I might as well buy the gear while I can.

My goal is to put on as much mass as I can

So here it is

Week 1-12 200mg Test enanthate (Delatestryl) E3D with 400mg frontloaded on day 1.

This comes out to about an average of 470mg test per week.

PCT
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva (ripped from pheedno

)

**seanw** · 01-15-2005, 03:57 AM

Well you have obviously done your homework. Just remeber to start PCT 14 days after your last shot of Test E. And EAT EAT EAT !!!!!

**DARKSEID** · 01-15-2005, 03:57 AM

Originally Posted by Wino

First off here are my stats
5'11, 180lbs, 4 years of weight training

I'll probably be doing this cycle in the summer or fall this year... but I figure I might as well buy the gear while I can.

My goal is to put on as much mass as I can

So here it is

Week 1-12 200mg Test enanthate (Delatestryl) E3D with 400mg frontloaded on day 1.

This comes out to about an average of 470mg test per week.

PCT
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex + 100mg Clomid + 20mg Nolva (ripped from pheedno

)

I personally like to frontload for the first 2 weeks, but if your gonna do it for one week, do 400mg twice, and up to you if you wanna run nolva at 10mg/day during the cycle.

**ace ventura** · 01-15-2005, 05:20 AM

What happens when you frontload with enanthate ?

**stocky121** · 01-15-2005, 05:23 AM

Originally Posted by ace ventura

What happens when you frontload with enanthate?

it kick's in more quickly say it would take 4 to 5 week's to kick in. If you front load it might take about 3 week's to kick in. Hope this help's

**ace ventura** · 01-15-2005, 05:38 AM

Originally Posted by stocky121

it kick's in more quickly say it would take 4 to 5 week's to kick in. If you front load it might take about 3 week's to kick in. Hope this help's

Ok, I didn't know the time it takes to kick in was depended on the dose. It might make sense.

**damian** · 01-15-2005, 05:59 AM

Originally Posted by stocky121

it kick's in more quickly say it would take 4 to 5 week's to kick in. If you front load it might take about 3 week's to kick in. Hope this help's

Where is the sciense proof of that?No flame here bro.....but i would love to see some evidence on that.........

**stocky121** · 01-15-2005, 06:04 AM

Originally Posted by damian

Where is the sciense proof of that?No flame here bro.....but i would love to see some evidence on that.........

I ain't got scientfic proof bro It's just what i have read about front loading in this forum

**seanw** · 01-15-2005, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by stocky121

I ain't got scientfic proof bro It's just what i have read about front loading in this forum

I have seen a couple of threads showing blood test results that show the Test levels are higher after front loading which means its should kick in faster. I will try and find them.

**stocky121** · 01-15-2005, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by seanw

I have seen a couple of threads showing blood test results that show the Test levels are higher after front loading which means its should kick in faster. I will try and find them.

thanx bro

**Wino** · 01-15-2005, 06:08 AM

Thanks for the help... here's the updated cycle...

Week 1-12 200mg Test enanthate (Delatestryl) E3D with 400mg frontloaded on first 3 injection days.

PCT
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex, 20mg Nolva,
Day 1-20 100mg Clomid
Day21-30 50mg Clomid... I changed this cause the Clomid I'm getting comes in 50x50mg doses... Don't really want to have to buy 2. Is this change okay?

I thought about taking 10mg of Nolva throughout the cycle but I can only get my hands on 20mg doses.... Can I take it 20mg EOD and get the same effect? Or should I take the 20mg ED? Or leave it till PCT? My only concern with Nolva is that I understand it can slightly hurt gains when on test... however it might keep the water retention down slightly. Any help?

**stocky121** · 01-15-2005, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Wino

Thanks for the help... here's the updated cycle...

Week 1-12 200mg Test enanthate (Delatestryl) E3D with 400mg frontloaded on first 3 injection days.

PCT
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex, 20mg Nolva,
Day 1-20 100mg Clomid
Day21-30 50mg Clomid... I changed this cause the Clomid I'm getting comes in 50x50mg doses... Don't really want to have to buy 2. Is this change okay?

I thought about taking 10mg of Nolva throughout the cycle but I can only get my hands on 20mg doses.... Can I take it 20mg EOD and get the same effect? Or should I take the 20mg ED? Or leave it till PCT? My only concern with Nolva is that I understand it can slightly hurt gains when on test... however it might keep the water retention down slightly. Any help?

just cut the tab in half bro so it is the equivlent (spelling) of 10 mg and just take half a tab a day

**seanw** · 01-15-2005, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by Wino

Thanks for the help... here's the updated cycle...

Week 1-12 200mg Test enanthate (Delatestryl) E3D with 400mg frontloaded on first 3 injection days.

PCT
Day 1-30- .25mg L-dex, 20mg Nolva,
Day 1-20 100mg Clomid
Day21-30 50mg Clomid... I changed this cause the Clomid I'm getting comes in 50x50mg doses... Don't really want to have to buy 2. Is this change okay?

I thought about taking 10mg of Nolva throughout the cycle but I can only get my hands on 20mg doses.... Can I take it 20mg EOD and get the same effect? Or should I take the 20mg ED? Or leave it till PCT? My only concern with Nolva is that I understand it can slightly hurt gains when on test... however it might keep the water retention down slightly. Any help?

The Nolva thing is really up to you, if you havnt had gyno symptons from any of your previous cycles I would just keep it aside and use it if you get them. Your call though, there are some people who reckon you lose some gains but I am not sure how you would know that really but any way up to you.

**Wino** · 01-15-2005, 06:23 AM

Originally Posted by damian

Where is the sciense proof of that?No flame here bro.....but i would love to see some evidence on that.........

Couple graphs showing how frontloading works...

This makes sense to me... its not scientific proof mind you...

**Wino** · 01-15-2005, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by stocky121

just cut the tab in half bro so it is the equivlent (spelling) of 10 mg and just take half a tab a day

Well I feel dumb, haha

**seanw** · 01-15-2005, 06:27 AM

If you want to run the numbers, here is the roid calculator, not sure how accurate it is though http://powerboard.rockarfett.com/roidcalc/ There are sh!tloads of medical references at the bottom of the page backing it up though

**Wino** · 01-15-2005, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by seanw

The Nolva thing is really up to you, if you havnt had gyno symptons from any of your previous cycles I would just keep it aside and use it if you get them. Your call though, there are some people who reckon you lose some gains but I am not sure how you would know that really but any way up to you.

Well, I actually have a very minor case of gyno from puberty that I'm getting cut out in a couple months... But I have no idea if getting the gland tissue cut out would make me less prone to getting gyno in the future.

**ace ventura** · 01-15-2005, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by seanw

there are some people who reckon you lose some gains but I am not sure how you would know that really but any way up to you.

Isn't that most likely just water anyway?
Less water retention / bloat with nolva.

**seanw** · 01-15-2005, 06:29 AM

Originally Posted by Wino

Well, I actually have a very minor case of gyno from puberty that I'm getting cut out in a couple months... But I have no idea if getting the gland tissue cut out would make me less prone to getting gyno in the future.

If you get all the glands removed you can do as much gear as you want and never have to worry again about Gyno

**seanw** · 01-15-2005, 06:32 AM

Originally Posted by ace ventura

Isn't that most likely just water anyway?
Less water retention / bloat with nolva.

I mean they would never know if using Nolva or not would make a difference because if the did use the Nolva they would have no way of knowing what they would or would not have gained if they didnt use the Nolva. The next cycle they might not use it and get more gains but that might not be because of the Nolva it could be a million other things, and the next cycle parameters could be totally different to the previous one