Serious ? for pros or year round users.

**bowie** · 03-11-2005, 07:39 PM

Question is, How do you keep your liver values in a safe range. I have been going non-stop for quite some time and my liver values have been high for quite a while. My doc is worried. I am running just strait primo now to try and lower the values. Any pro secrets would be greatly appreciated, as I am now 36 and this is my last run to make it with the big boys. P.S. I know all the common knowledge stuff, so please no noobs chiming in with milk thistle. I have been training for 20+ years and want to cycle for a couple more years.(safely if possible)

**1-Cent** · 03-11-2005, 07:52 PM

There is no secret, liver sensitivity to these compounds differs from person to person. I can use nothing and run Dbol with Accutane and have values in normal range, I get them tested all the time for more than one medication. I've used Milk Thistle and it did nothing to lower mine (as an experiment), and Liv52 which did lower them somewhat but nothing substantial.

I also don't drink alcohol at all, haven't for a couple years now, I don't know how much of a difference that would make though.

**MrMondodondo** · 03-11-2005, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by bowie

Question is, How do you keep your liver values in a safe range. I have been going non-stop for quite some time and my liver values have been high for quite a while. My doc is worried. I am running just strait primo now to try and lower the values. Any pro secrets would be greatly appreciated, as I am now 36 and this is my last run to make it with the big boys. P.S. I know all the common knowledge stuff, so please no noobs chiming in with milk thistle. I have been training for 20+ years and want to cycle for a couple more years.(safely if possible)

Bro,

I'm 40 and making a similar run. For the Masters tho. All the advice I get from the 2 pro's I talk to frequently is the water consumption and hope like he11 you have the genetics for it. Bottom line is that you do or you don't.
They do tell me to back down for periods of time to minimal Test to let the body naturally detoxify. Of course I follow this advice

So let's hope we can have our bodies hold up on us!!!!!

**bowie** · 03-11-2005, 08:45 PM

Originally Posted by 1-Cent

There is no secret, liver sensitivity to these compounds differs from person to person. I can use nothing and run Dbol with Accutane and have values in normal range, I get them tested all the time for more than one medication. I've used Milk Thistle and it did nothing to lower mine (as an experiment), and Liv52 which did lower them somewhat but nothing substantial.

I also don't drink alcohol at all, haven't for a couple years now, I don't know how much of a difference that would make though.

Yea, I know there's no "secret" but there has to be somethting, I seen alot of pros, none of them have jaundice yet. I'm looking for cycling advice and or supps. and what they bridge with, that sort of thing.

**bowie** · 03-11-2005, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by MrMondodondo

Bro,

I'm 40 and making a similar run. For the Masters tho. All the advice I get from the 2 pro's I talk to frequently is the water consumption and hope like he11 you have the genetics for it. Bottom line is that you do or you don't.
They do tell me to back down for periods of time to minimal Test to let the body naturally detoxify. Of course I follow this advice

So let's hope we can have our bodies hold up on us!!!!!

Thanx mondo, yea I've done the bridge with low amounts of test before, can't get my values back to a normal range that way. I thought I'd try primo by itself for a couple of months and overdose on liver meds. The more people that read this the better, as different people may have things that help them. Also it does suck getting old, having problems with the conective tissue between tris and elbows, among other things.

**1-Cent** · 03-11-2005, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by bowie

Yea, I know there's no "secret" but there has to be somethting, I seen alot of pros, none of them have jaundice yet. I'm looking for cycling advice and or supps. and what they bridge with, that sort of thing.

What I'm saying is it may just be the luck of the draw, theres endless factors in play but maybe one of the more significant ones is that some people can pop orals and keep on heavy doses for long periods and not have it affect their liver.
I mean I'm very ecto (although 225lbs now), I'll never be IFBB or anything just because I can't bulk and I can't successfully cut down to 2-4% bf because I lose muscle too quickly when my carbs/cals drop, it just doesn't work for me. theres no secret solution to my problem I just didn't end up with the right cards.

**DAS FREAK** · 03-11-2005, 09:11 PM

REGALONE, at least the is a favorite of an IFBB pronamed ronnie coleman
who is also 40! just a toght/ helpful advice!!!!!

**bowie** · 03-11-2005, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by 1-Cent

What I'm saying is it may just be the luck of the draw, theres endless factors in play but maybe one of the more significant ones is that some people can pop orals and keep on heavy doses for long periods and not have it affect their liver.
I mean I'm very ecto (although 225lbs now), I'll never be IFBB or anything just because I can't bulk and I can't successfully cut down to 2-4% bf because I lose muscle too quickly when my carbs/cals drop, it just doesn't work for me. theres no secret solution to my problem I just didn't end up with the right cards.

MY problem isn't my bod, just my liver. I just want to get this out to everyone to try and get a sensible cycle with the bridge and maybe that "secret" pill or lotion I could rub into my liver j.k.

**1-Cent** · 03-11-2005, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by bowie

MY problem isn't my bod, just my liver. I just want to get this out to everyone to try and get a sensible cycle with the bridge and maybe that "secret" pill or lotion I could rub into my liver j.k.

lol you don't get what I mean, I'm just giving you another example - you're asking for advice from pros, but they didn't get to be pros having average genetics like you and me or 99.9% of everyone on this board. being a meso can make you win a few local comps but theres so many other aspects that get you a pro card. its obvious that all pros use gear, thats just a fact of the sport, so therefor the guys that can handle more gear, more orals, for longer periods will be separated from the other meso's with equaly as great genetics in muscle building that just don't have the tolerance for the same doses and won't be able to keep up.
my body can take pretty much everything i throw at it and laugh (besides my hair, my hair doesn't laugh, it cries) but i'm no meso, sure i can keep 225lbs at sub 10%bf, but drop to competition bf (around 5%) and my muscle mass would shrivle up and die.
Some people have liver's of iron and others don't, you just don't bro just like i don't have the metabolism to be IFBB and that won't change, nothing you can do but manage your cycles to fit your physiology.