Doesn't fat help you lift?

**str8cubano** · 07-30-2005, 03:41 PM

When we are in bugerking winter mode, and we are bulking up, strength and power is never better. When we diet, we loose strength. I understand why we loose strength while dieting (low cals, no food in system, loosing water...ect), and technically it isn't the fat that helps you lift, but simply eating alot ensures that your muslces get the most calories possible for growth before and after workouts. THe downside of this is added fat.

So if lets say we were at 20-25% body fat, lifting heavy as hell..all the water ect, and we were to flip a swtich and suddently within minutes be at say...5% bodyfat. Will our muslces be able to lift as much as we would if we were at 20-25% bodyfat? Its the dieting that makes us loose strenght, but if we were to skip that, would we still be able to lift that same amount when bulking ? its our muslces that do the lifting right? so fat has no say in it? What do you guys think?

**chris2wire** · 07-30-2005, 10:21 PM

I would think you would lift even better since you wouldnt have the weight of fat holding you down.

The only reason you lift less after cutting or dieting is because you lose muscle when cutting and dieting.

**str8cubano** · 07-31-2005, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by chris2wire

I would think you would lift even better since you wouldnt have the weight of fat holding you down.

The only reason you lift less after cutting or dieting is because you lose muscle when cutting and dieting.

yea...

**stocky121** · 07-31-2005, 02:38 PM

IMO fat and water help increase strength but of course you need muscle as well

**Gorgoroth_** · 07-31-2005, 09:00 PM

I imagine extra weight would mess up your squat but on lifts like the bench press I think the fat could actually help. Bigger chest n belly , less distance the bar has to travel.

BG · 07-31-2005, 09:13 PM

Fatter the better, Im always stonger fat, cut the weight lose the strength, dont be scared to have some fat, its healthy to a certain extent!!

BG · 07-31-2005, 09:14 PM

How many ripped strong men champions do you see!!

**guest589745** · 07-31-2005, 09:35 PM

Hey GORGOTH who is that in yer avatar? I saw that guy kick the hell out of 1 dude!

**j martini** · 08-01-2005, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by BigGuns101

How many ripped strong men champions do you see!!

Well most of them or way to fat IMO you only have to look at marius pudzionovsky(if i spelt that properly) he stays very lean and doesnt seem to suffer. most of them all let there bodyfat get way out of hand.
SWtrength loses come from dropping a lot of bodyweight very quickly.

**Tazwell** · 08-01-2005, 01:18 AM

i feel i have more controll over the weight and better range of motion when i'm cut.. but of course i get stronger when i bulk that's why they call it bulking.

**The Baron** · 08-01-2005, 09:51 AM

Fairly high BF definitely makes me stronger. However, I really don't care about strength except as a means to an end.

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**redmeat** · 08-08-2005, 12:04 AM

Originally Posted by BigGuns101

How many ripped strong men champions do you see!!

Marius Pudzianowski, Bill Kazmaier, Jon Pall Sigmarsson....

**redmeat** · 08-08-2005, 12:06 AM

Jon Anderson from the USA is pretty lean. It's hard to tell from the pic but look at his freaking calves.

**redmeat** · 08-08-2005, 12:07 AM

Kaz on the left, Sigmarsson on the right.

**Ejuicer** · 08-08-2005, 12:09 AM

Slightly higher bf levels increases your natural testosterone levels so yes you would definitly be stronger then if you were in the single digits.

**eGGz** · 08-08-2005, 12:13 AM

A big muscle is a strong muscle. Heavyweight powerlifters come to mind. Some are relatively lean but for the most part they are just plain big.

**chest6** · 08-08-2005, 12:14 AM

yup i was hoping maruisz would be pointed out

**Lozgod** · 08-08-2005, 12:18 AM

And this is a steroid question how??????

**coalkick** · 08-08-2005, 12:18 AM

Skullmasher....I am thinking the guy on the Wheaties box is Bad News Allen...

**_Tiger_** · 08-08-2005, 12:20 AM

I think being water weight-y & fat makes it easier to lift, makes it more fluid of a motion. But I agree with The Baron..why would I want to bench 400 lbs and look like crap, I'd rather max out at 240 and be a ripped little dude

**Seattle Junk** · 08-08-2005, 12:31 AM

Yep, water is the key component to fast strength gains. Water actually is used as leverage within the muscles to give you the extra strength that you wouldn't have with lower/normal water retention. Retention/bloat is the main reason for rapid size and strength gains on all AAS programs. Androgens are the key due to aromitization into estrogen. You need a balance of estrogen with testosterone to get max gains. A lot of people want to shunt estrogen with nolva or other drugs. But if you do not have gyno or extreme bloat problems, in my opinion, you should let your hormone levels mitigate themselves even when you're on a highly androgenic cycle. Bulking cycles are built around androgens, no question about that. I'm not sure if fat works in the same manner as water as in leverage? I can't say fat is desirable for strength but I know extra water is. Adipose tissue is unefficient and not consistent. If you've looked at a cross section diagram of fat you will see that it is oily and lumpy looking. Think of it this way: Water is basically dense and it can shape into or around anything in your body and enhance it. Good or bad. Around your muscles for a larger look or around your waist for a fat look. Fat is porus and almost airy, not good leverage in my thinking. I think a lot of these strong men are more bloated with water from their high androgenic cycles. Test p,c & e, drol, test suspension stacked with winny? I have to admit, it's fun being on a highly androgenic cycle cuz you grow and get stronger by the week. You're itching to get to the gym to see how much you can lift.

mods, please correct my thinking if I'm off on this.

**_Tiger_** · 08-08-2005, 12:39 AM

but when you lose the water, do you lose the strength gains you made from it? thats what i dont get

**SprinterOne** · 08-08-2005, 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by _Tiger_

but when you lose the water, do you lose the strength gains you made from it? thats what i dont get

You lose the extra strength that the water gave you, yes.

**SprinterOne** · 08-08-2005, 12:56 AM

Originally Posted by _Tiger_

I think being water weight-y & fat makes it easier to lift, makes it more fluid of a motion. But I agree with The Baron..why would I want to bench 400 lbs and look like crap, I'd rather max out at 240 and be a ripped little dude

What if you were a powerlifter or a weightlifter whose sole purpose is to lift as much as possible?

**The Baron** · 08-08-2005, 02:00 AM

Originally Posted by SprinterOne

What if you were a powerlifter or a weightlifter whose sole purpose is to lift as much as possible?

In that case, how you look isn't really important. Go ahead and store a reasonable amount of fat. And, as others have pointed out, water. I just don't care about my lifts, because nobody sees my lifts. However, they see my body. They see how I look in a tight t-shirt. They see how I carry myself, how wide my shoulders and how narrow my waist and hips. They see veins and cuts (well, sometimes!) and they can't believe I am 46 years old. I just boinked a 19 YO chick night before last. Helped me forget about the 44YO I just kicked out who I thought was the love of my life. My body makes me look more professional, and more someone to be reckoned with. Others seek MY approval. Others defer to me. Young chicks ask me if I live alone. I wouldn't trade that for a 550 lb bench any day.

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**Blown_SC** · 08-08-2005, 02:21 AM

DING DING! We've found AR's most modest member folks! LMFAO...............

**LeanMeOut** · 08-08-2005, 02:22 AM

Originally Posted by The Baron

In that case, how you look isn't really important. Go ahead and store a reasonable amount of fat. And, as others have pointed out, water. I just don't care about my lifts, because nobody sees my lifts. However, they see my body. They see how I look in a tight t-shirt. They see how I carry myself, how wide my shoulders and how narrow my waist and hips. They see veins and cuts (well, sometimes!) and they can't believe I am 46 years old. I just boinked a 19 YO chick night before last. Helped me forget about the 44YO I just kicked out who I thought was the love of my life. My body makes me look more professional, and more someone to be reckoned with. Others seek MY approval. Others defer to me. Young chicks ask me if I live alone. I wouldn't trade that for a 550 lb bench any day.

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Pretty impressive for your age, got any pics??

BTW nice "sig"

**Seattle Junk** · 08-08-2005, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by The Baron

In that case, how you look isn't really important. Go ahead and store a reasonable amount of fat. And, as others have pointed out, water. I just don't care about my lifts, because nobody sees my lifts. However, they see my body. They see how I look in a tight t-shirt. They see how I carry myself, how wide my shoulders and how narrow my waist and hips. They see veins and cuts (well, sometimes!) and they can't believe I am 46 years old. I just boinked a 19 YO chick night before last. Helped me forget about the 44YO I just kicked out who I thought was the love of my life. My body makes me look more professional, and more someone to be reckoned with. Others seek MY approval. Others defer to me. Young chicks ask me if I live alone. I wouldn't trade that for a 550 lb bench any day.

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Yeah!!!!! The Baron is my style......I agree with you 100% brutha....19 yr old....yeah! Dirty old man! Me too.....I'm 36 with a 24 yr old gf. We met when she was 19. I have to admit, I look way younger than my age says on my ID. It's funny cause I get carded all of the time and love it. Some people at the grocery store almost seem embarassed when giving my ID back to me cause I'm older than them most of the time.

True about respect when you're in above average shape. I work in the white collar world so any advantage to gain respect is good. I sometimes get sick of being asked advice on working out and diet. Most of the people I try to explain diet too never do it so it's really a waste of time. I tell people that they have to committ to a healthy diet or forget the whole thing. That's my philosophy.

**The Baron** · 08-08-2005, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by LeanMeOut

Pretty impressive for your age, got any pics??

Not recent ones. No poses, etc. One I kinda like from about 4 years ago that an ex took. I keep saying I will take some new ones but I never do. Maybe after the next cycle. Or maybe when I finish cutting from the one I am finishing up now.

BTW nice "sig"

LOL! Actually it has cut my PMs way down. I just got so tired of guys PMing me with stuff that they should have posted. A post is not intrusive. You can read it or not. You can reply or not. You can read the replies of others, expand your own knowledge, and at the same time come up with a better answer that reflects your own experience or philosophy. And it bumps up the post count another notch. I enjoy the discussions, even arguments, between opposing camps and it broadens my knowledge and shows me that there is not always one right way, but sometimes many ways to solve a problem.

I really hated getting PMs for source checks. I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of sources. In fact I used to get PMs like that, and add that one to my "possible" list LOL! That was before I decided to to completely legal. But I would be like, "GRRRRRR! This bozo has more sources than me, and he is asking me to verify this one!" and sometimes, of course, that is just a spam for the source, disguised as a request for help.

The sig is actually a ctrl-V work-around... I just paste it in there. The board does not give me an automatic sig, only mods or vets. Rank has its privelege, I guess.

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**powerliftmike** · 08-08-2005, 02:52 PM

Okay, I kinda know about this since I am a powerlifter. Fat will give you a big advantage in the squat because a belly adds so much leverage in that lift. Fat can help in the bench, but not as much. Fat HURTS you in the deadlift tho, so it's a trade off.

As any powerlifter or weight-lifter knows, you don't want to go up a weight class with fat. Haha. So unless you are SHW and it doesn't matter it's a far better choice to stay lean.

Also ones health should be top priority over any lifting, and fat in excess has many health problems associated with it.

**redmeat** · 08-09-2005, 03:16 AM

As a powerlifter and strongman who has dieted down from 370 to 285 in the last 14-15 months I can say that leaner is better if you want to be a strength athlete.

It's just gonna slow you down in the gym and hinder your workouts.