Nolva vs. Proviron

**Power Viking** · 09-28-2005, 06:14 PM

It seems like you all use Nolva for battling estrogen, why not proviron ?
My dealer can get me Proviron much cheaper (almost half the prise) than Nolva, so I`m thinking of making a switch.

This from the profiles section:
"Unlike the antiestrogen Nolvadex which only blocks the estrogen receptors (see Nolvadex) Proviron already prevents the aromatizing of steroids . Therefore gynecomastia and increased water retention are successfully blocked. Since Proviron strongly suppresses the forming of estrogens no re-bound effect occurs after discontinuation of use of the compound as is the case with, for example, Nolvadex where an aromatization of the steroids is not prevented. One can say that Nolvadex cures the problem of aromatization at its root while Nolvadex simply cures the symptoms. For this reason male athletes should prefer Proviron to Nolvadex."

**TheMudMan** · 09-28-2005, 06:20 PM

Nolva is used to keep estrogen from binding to the ER, Proviron keeps aromatization from ocuring. It depends on how you want to stop estrogen related sides. Proviron will keep you dry where nolva will not because of the way it works.

**Power Viking** · 09-28-2005, 06:32 PM

Is there a downside to being "dry"? Less power?
As I`m into roids because I want lasting strength then water retention is all bad for me I guess, so Proviron should be used then.

**TheMudMan** · 09-28-2005, 06:55 PM

Originally Posted by Power Viking

Is there a downside to being "dry"? Less power?
As I`m into roids because I want lasting strength then water retention is all bad for me I guess, so Proviron should be used then.

Nope..... I feel better when I'm not bloated. When I bloat I get winded easily. But with the little extra weight from the bloating may give you some added power.

**powerliftmike** · 09-28-2005, 06:58 PM

Would proviron be worse for the joints?

**TheMudMan** · 09-28-2005, 07:00 PM

Originally Posted by powerliftmike

Would proviron be worse for the joints?

It could be........ I know when I ran Prop, EQ, and Var and used Proviron that my elbows killed me. I know the cycle alone probably caused the problem but I don't think the proviron helped any either.

**Red Ketchup** · 09-28-2005, 08:02 PM

I've been using proviron a few years and absolutely love it.

I always have nolva on hand just in case, but with proviron no estrogen problems. On top of that proviron does seem to harden the look/feel of the muscles (just personal observation here).

The bad side? Too much proviron = priaprism (boner that just won't go away). It also increases your sex drive (which may not be too good if you're already on 750-1000g of test per wk), and it does affect your prostate.

With all the pros and cons weighed, I like to use proviron.

Red

**vein-x** · 09-28-2005, 08:10 PM

RED: how would you reccommend using it for PCT? I'm looking at Clomid and Nolva for PCT, with extra Nolva on hand in case of on-cycle gyno. Should I just get the same amount of Nolva that I was planning, but scratch Clomid and go with Proviron ? Again, what would the PCT look like?

**TheMudMan** · 09-28-2005, 08:29 PM

Originally Posted by vein-x

RED: how would you reccommend using it for PCT? I'm looking at Clomid and Nolva for PCT, with extra Nolva on hand in case of on-cycle gyno. Should I just get the same amount of Nolva that I was planning, but scratch Clomid and go with Proviron? Again, what would the PCT look like?

I have read somethings stating that Proviron can be suppressive and some that say it isn't. I have never used it durring PCT so I can't really say. But unless someone comes up with a lot of information backing that it will not suppress HPTA then I would not use it durring PCT.

So I would say stick with your current plan....... also Proviron wouldn't take the place of Clomid.

**vein-x** · 09-28-2005, 08:48 PM

Ok... but do I really need Clomid AND Nolva? I was thinking just Nolva @ 40mg 1st two weeks of PCT, and @20mg 2nd two weeks. I'm only running:
Week 1: Test E @ 700mg & EQ @ 800mg
Week 2: Test E @ 600mg & EQ @ 700mg
Weeks 3-12: Test E @ 500mg & EQ @ 400mg
(With Dbol as a kickstart @ 40mg/ED for the first 4 weeks)

**powerliftmike** · 10-11-2005, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by TheMudMan

I have read somethings stating that Proviron can be suppressive and some that say it isn't. I have never used it durring PCT so I can't really say. But unless someone comes up with a lot of information backing that it will not suppress HPTA then I would not use it durring PCT.

So I would say stick with your current plan....... also Proviron wouldn't take the place of Clomid.

I guess it will depend on the dosages. The androgen component will hamper your PCT, but if it can lower estrogen then it would be of use during PCT. I would also like to seem to literature on its use in PCT. It will make PCT easier if you take it during cycle as there won't be a big rebound as would happen with nolvadex or clomid alone during cycle.

**BigPimpin76** · 10-11-2005, 04:53 PM

My question is if I could use Proviron in My Test E, EQ and Masteron cycle to keep the estrogen from building? Will this also avoid bloating?

TheOak* · 11-04-2005, 07:03 AM

Here is an abstract of a study that shows it is not suppressive

Abstract refuting that Proviron is not highly suppressive

Here is the study I was referring to. Only 85 men out of 250 showed any suppression. Proviron did not shut down the HPTA in any of the subjects and that was at 150mg for 1 year. I would say its pretty safe and has very little effect on one's HPTA

This study shows no effect on normal LH and FSH with 100-150mg/ d mesterolone, and decrease of FSH/LH that were elevated.
Proviron doesn't substitute Clomid as hpta therapy, but doesn't get in the way, either.
The effect of mesterolone on sperm count, on serum follicle stimulating hormone, luteinizing hormone, plasma testosterone and outcome in idiopathic oligospermic men.

Varma TR, Patel RH.

Department of Obstetrics & Gynaecology, St. George's Hospital Medical School London, U.K.

Two hundred fifty subfertile men with idiopathic oligospermia (count less than 20 million/ml) were treated with mesterolone (100-150 mg/day) for 12 months. Seminal analysis were assayed 3 times and serum follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) luteinizing hormone (LH) and plasma testosterone were assayed once before treatment and repeated at 3, 6, 9 and 12 months after the initiation of treatment. One hundred ten patients (44%) had normal serum FSH, LH and plasma testosterone, 85 patients (34%) had low serum FSH, LH and low plasma testosterone. One hundred seventy-five patients (70%) had moderate oligospermia (count 5 to less than 20 million/ml) and 75 patients (30%) had severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million/ml). Seventy-five moderately oligospermic patients showed significant improvement in the sperm density, total sperm count and motility following mesterolone therapy whereas only 12% showed improvement in the severe oligospermic group. Mesterolone had no depressing effect on low or normal serum FSH and LH levels but had depressing effect on 25% if the levels were elevated. There was no significant adverse effect on testosterone levels or on liver function. One hundred fifteen (46%) pregnancies resulted following the treatment, 9 of 115 (7.8%) aborted and 2 (1.7%) had ectopic pregnancy. Mesterolone was found to be more useful in patients with a sperm count ranging between 5 and 20 million/ml. Those with severe oligospermia (count less than 5 million) do not seem to benefit from this therapy.

**ZIA1** · 11-05-2005, 07:03 AM

I heard 25mg/ED and not 50mg/ED is sufficient during a cycle. Anyone?

**ScottyShotty** · 11-05-2005, 07:11 AM

I still dont really understand. If provironum keeps you dry, which is better for bloat and power, and stops the Estrogen from occuring in the first place, then why is it not the prefered choice??Because it may make your sex drive too high?