my natural tesl levels are in the dumps

[Doc.Sust]

been off gear for more than 6 months. got labs back and my test level were barely normal, very low. any one have and sugeestions to increase the levels without gear? tribulus? if so what dose? any other ideas?

[Doc.Sust]

bump

[MASTER]

trib dose 5g a day, cud try tongkat i reckon its better than trib, i took 3 grams of it a day, tho most people will probs say thats 2 high.

[tough old man]

been off gear for more than 6 months. got labs back and my test level were barely normal, very low. any one have and sugeestions to increase the levels without gear? tribulus? if so what dose? any other ideas?

brother how many cycles have you done and what was your last cycle?

[goose]

Look into Tribex and Redkat,these will help lots.

goose4.............

[Doc.Sust]

done about 3 cycles all spaced at least 2 years apart, this cycle was a doozy, highdoses of test for 10 months running orals and tren ,in the very beginning and at the end of the cycle . but i have been done for over 6months and did proper pct

[Doc.Sust]

Look into Tribex and Redkat,these will help lots.

goose4.............

are these froms of trib and tongkat??

[Swampwood]

clomid or hcg

[NotSmall]

are these froms of trib and tongkat??

Yes, by Biotest.

[Doc.Sust]

clomid or hcg

no shite sherlock,.looking for natural means other than pct like procedures

[Doc.Sust]

Yes, by Biotest.

i thought so , thank you Notsmall, love the avatar!

[IBdmfkr]

How old are you doc sust? Thought about HRT?

[NotSmall]

i thought so , thank you Notsmall, love the avatar!

No probs Doc, love yours too - looks like that cycle paid off big huh?

[MASTER]

doc forget about tribex and redkat, overpriced as hell, pic up some pure tongkat and trib, much cheaper.

[tough old man]

Ok my friend here's the skinny. When ever someone decides to do a long ass cycle, he needs to come off slowly. I have a lot of experience with gear. When you come off a cycle like that you need to drop it down to 300 a week and each week after drop it 50 until down to nothing. During this period you do pct until completely finished. If you fail to do it this way what happened to you is going to happen to about 905 of the people.

Here's what I'd do. Start Test e @ 500mgs a week. do this for about 3 weeks. Then start dropping it 50 a week until you hit 250 mgs. 250mgs is nothing and is just a little over what they give AID patience. Do the 250 mgs a week for about 1 week and then start PCT while dropping the dosage of test by 50 each week until you end up at 0 mgs. Continue the PCT for another two weeks and then have yourself tested. If levels are not back to par....guess what.......HRT from there out.

For you that are reading this, this is exactly why you don't use gear at a young age. It would not be funny to have to start HRT at 30 years of age. Using gear at an early age only ****s up your natural test production.

[IBdmfkr]

So you are recommending to start your PCT "while" you are still taking the Test at a lower dosage? That just doesn't make sense.

[testosterona]

So you are recommending to start your PCT "while" you are still taking the Test at a lower dosage? That just doesn't make sense.

i second this. and that test e cycle would be like 8wks long as well?

[IBdmfkr]

No offense but this is who is recommending this protocol. hmm..

Tough Old Man!!!!

Do you have any sources to back up your suggested protocol.

[Testostack]

No probs Doc, love yours too - looks like that cycle paid off big huh?

LMFAO.......you're shredded as hell, try not to break a bone or a vein doing your pose routine

[testosterona]

No offense but this is who is recommending this protocol. hmm..

Tough Old Man!!!!

Do you have any sources to back up your suggested protocol.

oh, ok. this makes more sense now

[Testostack]

oh, ok. this makes more sense now

Hey what's up Testosterona........how your cycle right now??

[O.M.E.G.A]

hi

run liquidex at 1 mg a day for 30 days then get tested again after

by takeing liquidex you suppress estro, a close the "feedback loop" and your endorcrine system compensates and pushes your endogenous testosterone production to its upper limits naturally......

try it it works

[IBdmfkr]

Not to sound repetative but do you have a source we can refer to on this Omega? Thx.

[Pinnacle]

I have a lot of experience with gear.

Explain to me (and the rest of us) how you have extensive experience with anabolics when you've been drinking and smoking the last 20 yrs(and look the way you do)?

Do you mean you have extensive experience being a thread parrot?You know,a person who just reads boards and repeats what they've read without actually having any experience at all.


~Pinnacle~

[Maetenloch]

Try running a second PCT. Here's a study where they had men with low test levels run HCG , nolva, and clomid cycles repeatedly until their levels rose. On average their test went from < 100ng/dl to over 600. http://www.bodyhouse.dk/idealbb/view...21878&pageNo=1

Ten months is a long time - don't be surprised if your body needs extra help to recover.

[IBdmfkr]

Nice find. Too bad it doesn't tell about the HCG administration. Curious to know what dosages and duration it was run.

[Maetenloch]

Nice find. Too bad it doesn't tell about the HCG administration. Curious to know what dosages and duration it was run.

Deep in the study they mention that the men were taking 2500IU of HCG every other day for 16 days. If their test levels weren't above 300, they continued the HCG for another 16 days. On average the men used a total of 50,000IU total each, which works out to about 20 doses (~ 40 days).

[IBdmfkr]

Wow, Good info. Thx for pointing that out, skimmed through the last part of it.

[Testostack]

Explain to me (and the rest of us) how you have extensive experience with anabolics when you've been drinking and smoking the last 20 yrs(and look the way you do)?

Do you mean you have extensive experience being a thread parrot?You know,a person who just reads boards and repeats what they've read without actually having any experience at all.


~Pinnacle~

I think it's time to say.........







Pinn' always charming.....

[chest6]

I find as far as a supplement standpoint..tongkat is the most effective by far at raising natural testosterone levels

[vitor]

Been on cycle for 6 months? It will take time to recover from that! Shorter cycles are better if you expect to recover hpta ever again. Tribulis/tongkat-ali/Armidex/ZMA is what I would use.

[Blown_SC]

Been on cycle for 6 months? It will take time to recover from that! Shorter cycles are better if you expect to recover hpta ever again. Tribulis/tongkat-ali/Armidex/ZMA is what I would use.

He said he's bee OFF gear for 6+months...

[pitbull27]

So is tongkat best used while on cycle to combat atrophy, or even better.... in conjunction with L-DEX or Arimidex while on cycle, or should you just use it along with PCT to get the boys up and running?

[toolman]

Did we ever get your age? I have noticed lately via labs and feeling that my test is now naturaly low well after my cycles. At 40 I can't complain. The good news is becoming legal with the test. Is HRT off limits in your thinking?

[IBdmfkr]

He said he's bee OFF gear for 6+months...

Yes 6+months off after a 10month go. That is gonna be hard to come back from. May wanna consider HRT, or just take up waterpolo.

[Doc.Sust]

Yes 6+months off after a 10month go. That is gonna be hard to come back from. May wanna consider HRT, or just take up waterpolo.

no thanks i will stick to powerlifting, i am 30, i feel to young to do hrt, also my test levels were normal, just on the low end of the scale, i talked to a surgeon today who said my free test percentage was in the mid range so i shouldn't worry. thanks for the input all. the idea of taking an extra pct cylce is a good idead. also i didn't just crash when i stoped i weened off lowering test each wk and started pct after that for an extended amount of time.

[Doc.Sust]

LMFAO.......you're shredded as hell, try not to break a bone or a vein doing your pose routine

not my real avatar

[pitbull27]

So is tongkat best used while on cycle to combat atrophy, or even better.... in conjunction with L-DEX or Arimidex while on cycle, or should you just use it along with PCT to get the boys up and running?

...Still looking for an answer to this from those here with more wisdom than I...
Thanks.

[IBdmfkr]

also i didn't just crash when i stoped i weened off lowering test each wk and started pct after that for an extended amount of time.

Do you think it is beneficial to ween off a cycle? What dosages did you drop to and for how long. Thinking of doing a Long cycle next but I want to be able to recover, thx for input.

[Seattle Junk]

I believe in doing 500ius HCG e3d through all androgenic cycles from week 3-4 all the way until your last shot. With long esters like test enath, up to 2 weeks after last shot. Keep the balls full which helps a lot in PCT. I've done a lot reading on this and I did this with my last cycle and it works.