Moderate Dose Short Cyles - Steroids for Health!

[AleX-69]

yeah i added it to my PCt after reading Stockys PCT guide... It fits perfectly into my short cycle regimen.

[evil pepsi]

i have several cycles ( more than 5) under my belt, all of which have been no less than 8 weeks in duration. i recently stumbled upon a short cycle by accident, and im really going to dig further into this.
i started a basic cycle of the following:
week 1-4 50mg dbol ed
week 1-10 250mg test e twice a week

as i was starting the third week of test, i developed cellulitis in my shoulder. this started on a sunday. by thursday, i was in the doctors office facing possible surgery if no improvement showed within 48 hours. i was put on massive doses of bactrim and prednisone.
i left the doc, and went straight to the gym. nothing was going to break me. will is that if im on my feet, i can train. get big or die trying.
everyone that saw my arm said one of two things-either im crazy, or too damn dedicated, hehe.
i took saturday and sunday off to allow my body to repair the damage, and to also keep pressure off my arm. the increased blood in the area made my skin feel as if it was splitting.
as a result of the meds, i stopped the dbol, and quit the shots. as i said before, this amounted to roughly a three week cycle. at this time, i had gained 11lbs. granted, this was weight i had previously gained before, and thanks to the magic of muscle memory, it was coming back fast.
my strength was exploding before all this.
i quit cold, with no pct, as i had planned to just go right back on as soon as the meds were done. after 10 days off, im still holding on to 7.5 of those pounds, and im still gaining strength. my sex drive is just as out of control as it was before, and im not feeling any sides.
i had read some about short cycles, and as a result of my experience, im curious as to whether this is the norm. im planning one more 3-4 week cycle of test and dbol in a week, as this is all that i have at this time, and the cycle after that will be with different gear. i want to see if this is just a fluke event before i change it up. hell, if it works even half as well as before, i may just stick with short cycles from here on out.
just out of curiosity, to optimize this, should i follow the pattern of ramping up three days prior to day zero?
im looking for ideas to experiment around with. could i load up with test at beginning, and bring dbol in halfway through? due to the hepatoxicity of the meds, mixed with my dbol usage, this next cycle will only be dbol for two weeks, and i plan on giving my liver at least six months before i use anything stronger than anavar , if i even incorporate an oral in my next cycle(s).
i plan on running pct for no less than 4 weeks in between cycles, and also plan on documenting every change in my body, both good and bad. i may post my results on here for all to see just to either shoot holes in all this, or to support the concept...

[AleX-69]

you got PM.


I might add one thing concerning the IGF-1 i used in my recent PCT. Well actually i don't think it was worth the money. I maybe got a little leaner and the pumps where awesome. But thats about it.

DiDn't felt any better recovery. Plus the added risk of side effects and the high price tag..


Next cycle will be ProP / VAr.. starting january.

[armbar83]

alex,

i was wondering...

ive always heard your supposed to run test in a cycle...but if your running small doses of hcg throughout the 4 cycle, would it be ok to leave test out (i understand its the best for short cycles, im just curious)?

also, would you do back to back 4 weekers (ex. 4on4off,4on6-8off,4on4off)?

and if you would, would you alternate gear? (prop/winny, prop/tren , prop/winny)

thanks, this post has been great to read!

[ftony]

Had to come back to that post once more.

It is unquestioned that longer cycles do work! Period!

But actually the main purpose of low/moderate dose short cycles is to cycle more healthy with less adverse health effects (especially long-term) than on traditional cycles.

HAving a shitty lipid profile for extended periods of time can't be healthy at all and you don't know what damage you've already done to your body (i.e. ateriosclerosis...).

Just wanted to point that out..

I read a ways back that they have been doing short cycles over in europe for years an couldnt understand why americans cycle for 12 weeks or more...I like the entire concept of short cycles when i read it then ,and i like it now.The only problem for me is all i have is slow acting compounds and i feel it wont work as good using the frontload method...but i will try it soon.Thanks for taking all that time to share that info!!

[marcus300]

I read a ways back that they have been doing short cycles over in europe for years an couldnt understand why americans cycle for 12 weeks or more...I like the entire concept of short cycles when i read it then ,and i like it now.The only problem for me is all i have is slow acting compounds and i feel it wont work as good using the frontload method...but i will try it soon.Thanks for taking all that time to share that info!!

get the right compounds for the designed cycle dont just use something because thats all you have, long esters can be used but at a high dose but am thinking your not ready for that so id stick with short esters.

[AleX-69]

yeah, marcus is right.

I wouldn't advise using long esters in moderate dose short cycles. they simply don't work too well. Moreover you have to cramp the ammount of AAS you wanna use during a 4 week period into 2 weeks.
Therefore you have a much higher hormone spike and this increases the risk of possible side effects.

So stay away from long esters IF possible.

Moreover i'd like to add, that i no longer feel tren A is a good addition to a short cycle, at least for me. This may aswell translate to ALL Nor based roids (NPP, deca ...)

Nowadays i run 4 weeks on, 6 weeks off. I ran tren in my last short cycle and really felt that my recovery was far worse in comparison to other compounds.
I had to pause 2 more weeks b4 i could start again.. Moreover the results using tren were not THAT much better to justify a longer off period in my book.

[AleX-69]

alex,

i was wondering...

ive always heard your supposed to run test in a cycle...but if your running small doses of hcg throughout the 4 cycle, would it be ok to leave test out (i understand its the best for short cycles, im just curious)?

also, would you do back to back 4 weekers (ex. 4on4off,4on6-8off,4on4off)?

and if you would, would you alternate gear? (prop/winny, prop/tren , prop/winny)

thanks, this post has been great to read!

I am no expert on HCG, so i won't comment on that. But i would strongly advise to run at least some supplemental test during every cycle (200mg/week).

Doing 4 on 4 off MIGHT lead to a severe HPTA inhibtion. It all comes down to how well you know your own body. I - for example - can run 4on / 6 off with no problems [having a bigger break after 2 sucessive cycles (8-10 weeks)].

And yes i would alternate gear. Test should be the base of every short cycle i feel. At least supplemental. Other compunds should be switched from cycle to cycle and depending on goals. For me it is prop/winny Prop/var for the next cycles.

Another thing i like to point out is, that i am using short cylces often during cutting periods. While cycling i am priming and after i finished the cycle i up my calories. This helps a lot with recovery and the muscle loss - if any - is minimal. Granted you don't gain MASSIVE amounts of muscle cycling that way but your bodycomposition changes dramatically.

[armbar83]

Honestly, this type of cycling sounds great to me because I don't like to gain massive amounts of weight, and prefer to do lower/mod dose cycles.

I'd rather gain small spurts of quality lbm and keep fat and recovery time lower while using aas ability to heal me up faster while training.

I was wondering if/what other compounds/combinations would you recommend for this type of cycling?

I use aas for sports not bb, so would OT or mast be good additions?

Would you stack 2 compounds along with the test? And if so what combinations would be most synergistic?

Personally, tren was to harsh for me, so I am glad to hear its not worth including.

Sorry for all the questions...

Thanks!

[Anabolic1234]

Do you all lose around half the gains?

[Swifto]

alex,

i was wondering...

ive always heard your supposed to run test in a cycle...but if your running small doses of hcg throughout the 4 cycle, would it be ok to leave test out (i understand its the best for short cycles, im just curious)?

also, would you do back to back 4 weekers (ex. 4on4off,4on6-8off,4on4off)?

and if you would, would you alternate gear? (prop/winny, prop/tren , prop/winny)

thanks, this post has been great to read!

Using HCG when "on" will not maintain endogenous testosterone production, but will maintain tesicular size/function.

Not sure about short cycling, but I cant see how HCG can replace testosterone used in a short cycle. Apart from labido, I dont see the point at all. But then, HCG doesnt always increase labido in all that use it if inhibitied of shutdown.

[87GrandNational]

A short cycle for me back in 04 yeilded 25 pounds and kept about 18 of them. Again i was eating close to 5500 calories a day by week 4 and 6600 by week 8. I think body chemistry has alot to do with gains. so to assume that big gains cant be made in a short period isnt entirely true if all the components are in place like diet, sleep, a lot more sleep!, and serious in depth, muscle ripping training. I still think sleep is as important as diet. Without recovery then you just rip open cuts the whole time.

[armbar83]

Using HCG when "on" will not maintain endogenous testosterone production, but will maintain tesicular size/function.

Not sure about short cycling, but I cant see how HCG can replace testosterone used in a short cycle. Apart from labido, I dont see the point at all. But then, HCG doesnt always increase labido in all that use it if inhibitied of shutdown.

Yah, ive read threads on hcg but i guess i dont totally understand it. i assumed that it helped maintain regular levels of testosterone along with libido/testicular size. Thats where the question came from...

So in your opinion, HCG wouldn't be necessary while "on" a short cycle but would be better suited during pct?

[monkeyboy1215]

Hey I just wanted to say thanks for all the time you put into this thread. Very informative and as for myself, I have never done anything but some stuff from GNC several years ago and I cant seem to get enough info. And that is why I am here, I am not going to kill my self bcuz I am uneducated. "Ignorance is no excuse" So again THANX A BUNCH!!!!

[ftony]

get the right compounds for the designed cycle dont just use something because thats all you have, long esters can be used but at a high dose but am thinking your not ready for that so id stick with short esters.

Ok marcus will do.....Im still nursing a rotator cuff injury so i have some time before i go back on.Its been 6 weeks so far and i have not reinjured it ....But i am getting a little eager to go at it hard again, this going light crap makes me feel like im not even training!!!oh well thanks bro.

[Swifto]

Yah, ive read threads on hcg but i guess i dont totally understand it. i assumed that it helped maintain regular levels of testosterone along with libido/testicular size. Thats where the question came from...

So in your opinion, HCG wouldn't be necessary while "on" a short cycle but would be better suited during pct?

I have never done a short cycle and Marcus will be better educated on this subject, I feel.

I dont see the point in HCG in a short cycle, if short cycles theorists claims are correct and HPTA inhibition/shutdown is limited. If you are inhibited/shutdown using a short cycle, it would be minimal and testicular shrinkage short lived, so why use HCG when PCT is around the corner?

Use it for PCT IMHO.

[marcus300]

I have never done a short cycle and Marcus will be better educated on this subject, I feel.

I dont see the point in HCG in a short cycle, if short cycles theorists claims are correct and HPTA inhibition/shutdown is limited. If you are inhibited/shutdown using a short cycle, it would be minimal and testicular shrinkage short lived, so why use HCG when PCT is around the corner?

Use it for PCT IMHO.

I agree, no need unless you suffer from shrinkage but for me when i do one i always use it for the last ten days but thats just me,

[armbar83]

thanks guys, i appreciate the help

[AleX-69]

Honestly, this type of cycling sounds great to me because I don't like to gain massive amounts of weight, and prefer to do lower/mod dose cycles.

I'd rather gain small spurts of quality lbm and keep fat and recovery time lower while using aas ability to heal me up faster while training.

I was wondering if/what other compounds/combinations would you recommend for this type of cycling?

I use aas for sports not bb, so would OT or mast be good additions?

Would you stack 2 compounds along with the test? And if so what combinations would be most synergistic?

Personally, tren was to harsh for me, so I am glad to hear its not worth including.

Sorry for all the questions...

Thanks!

A list fo the steroids i personally would use in a short cycle keeping you goals in mind:

Test Propionate
Winny
Anavar
Oral Turinabol
Masteron
Halo (not for beginners)

I am not a fan of stacking more than
3 compounds together. That is IF those compounds are working through diffrent pathways (i.e. Test as Base, a DHT derative, a Nor-based Compound). In the list i provided above there is Test Prop as Base and all other compounds are DHT based (more or less) so i don't think it is worth stackin' more than 2 of these compounds.

[marcus300]

A list fo the steroids i personally would use in a short cycle keeping you goals in mind:

Test Propionate
Winny
Anavar
Oral Turinabol
Masteron
Halo (not for beginners)

I am not a fan of stacking more than
3 compounds together. That is IF those compounds are working through diffrent pathways (i.e. Test as Base, a DHT derative, a Nor-based Compound). In the list i provided above there is Test Prop as Base and all other compounds are DHT based (more or less) so i don't think it is worth stackin' more than 2 of these compounds.

this is what ive found aswell, 3 compounds what mix well with each other is all you need,

[armbar83]

thanks guys

[Myostatinus]

______________________

Investig Med 1997 Oct;45(8):441-7

Testosterone suppression of the HPT axis.

MacIndoe JH, Perry PJ, Yates WR, Holman TL, Ellingrod VL, Scott SD.

***artment of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA.

BACKGROUND: Although studies have demonstrated the suppression of normal gonadal function in the experimental setting, the specific mechanisms by which androgenic -anabolic steroids impact male gonadal function remain ill defined. Following 2 consecutive weekly injections of an identically appearing testosterone cypionate (TC) placebo, subjects were randomized to a TC dose of 100 mg/wk, 250 mg/wk, or 500 mg/wk. Following the last weekly injection of active agent the subjects received 12 consecutive weeks of TC placebo injections. RESULTS: Spermatogenesis was impaired by each of the doses of TC employed in this study, but the observed decreases in, sperm count were neither strictly dose ***endent nor consistent between individuals treated with the same dose. Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH. CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone-mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.

_________________

I came accross the pubmed reference too it would be interesting to see the graphs of the recovery phase, comparing 100, 250 and 500 test cyp.

Anybody have access to the full-text, it does not seem to be online...

A great follow-up study would be to look at 4 a week cycle recovery vs a 12 week cycle recovery. This would confirm that the recovery from a 4 week cycle is indeed quicker.

[ernrok101]

the question i have is my cholestrol levels are fine .i have slightly high blood pressure.but i have high triglycercides. .. a short cycle is excactly wha ti want to try since i have size already i just need to drop body fat and get a "touch up" for the summer. i never use roids and i just want to know what kind of gear i should use for myself based on the info listed above

[djmc]

I Just ran Prop Day one 150 , then 80 mg per day for 12 days last day 150
along with Tren day one 150, then 70 mg per day for 14 days last day 150

Did a three on one off split full body.
Day one is Chest Bi's,
Day two is shoulders tris and abs,
Day three is death, back, thighs
So i had four solid full body builders, with one at the end as system cleared.

System is clear of crank in 25ish days because of the nice half lives.
I could feel it clear out, muscle soreness .. of course. So i dropped my volume to nearly a third, kept the intensity up, i actually felt my body recovered in 4 weeks after last shot.
6 grams trib per day, lots of sleep, zma, for at least 4 weeks.
I gained ten, kept seven ... and of course lost maybe 1% BF
Good Gear, perfect diet and sleep, you cant lose on these shorties imho.
I didnt have much of a strength increase so im doing dbol next run.
My body really reacts to Dbol, so ill likely gain nearly 20 lbs by week two.
Guess ill have to wear my hoodies ..
Low volume/reps body parts on a 5 way split with 2 off, hitting core 3x week since i started clearing the system around day 20.

I figure ill take two months off doing 10-15 reps for maybe 4-5 weeks in the middle of the two months, let me joints rest, then go back to strength work two weeks prior too, then just hammer out another 16 day jammer.

NEXT CYCLE IS
Prop for 11 days Day one 200mg … then 80+per day, last day 200mg
Tren for 12 days Day one 150mg … then 70 per day, last day 150mg
Dbol for 16 days Taken daily at 9-10am, workouts start at noonish

5mg Dbols distributed like so:
3 ON & 1 OFF #Tabs used
5x3 + 3tabs ... 18
5x3 + 3tabs ... 18
6x3 + 4tabs ... 22
7x3 + 4tabs ... 25
Take one 5mg tab with dinner (16), using 99 tabs lol
Bruised up butt and thighs but well worth it. No rage, no depression, perfect
Sounds kind of controversial using the dbol with the tren but im already ripped so im just using the dbol for strength .. cant wait !

[skillinz]

okay I'll bite...

So I'm a newbie (0 cycles to date) and am interested in the short cycles approach. The plus of it being healthier while still having a positive impact on your training is appealing. I however have a little different goal.

I've been training pretty steady for almost 2.5yrs now and have went from 6' 150lbs w/ 8% body fat to 200lbs with ~15% body fat. I am not looking to gain anymore but rather cut my body fat down to 10% (or less).

I lift 5x a week with hard cardio 3-5x a week and eat very lean (maybe not enough). So I feel I'm doing good already and am just looking for an extra boost to help me cut down to my goal body fat.

My trainer suggested Winny with Deca and I looked around and finally found a site that seemed credible so I ordered just one dose to see if it was legit. Everything appears to check out based on what I've read, now I just need to figure out what my cycle should look like.

I found one cycle I'm interested in (below) but could really use some advise if this is the correct approach or if a short cycle might work better. Your comments are greatly appreciated...


Week Winny mg/week Primobolan mg/week Clenbuterol tabs/day
---- --------------- -------------------- ---------------------
1 100 100 1 tab - 3 times a day
2 200 100 1 tab - 3 times a day
3 200 200
4 300 200
5 300 300 1 tab - 3 times a day
6 200 200 1 tab - 3 times a day
7 200 200
8 100 100
9 1 tab - 3 times a day
10 1 tab - 3 times a day



Edit - The cycle above isn't formatting right so here's a link to a better looking version http://www.anabolicsteroidspharma.com/cycles.htm go down to #6


Thanks,
-B