roid tolerance

**jmax** · 03-14-2006, 10:36 AM

is it true that after you do a cycle. The next cycle will have to be stronger due to your body developing a tolerance?

**shortie** · 03-14-2006, 10:39 AM

Not true.

**Anabolios** · 03-14-2006, 10:40 AM

if your receptors are not fresh you will most likely need an extra compound or a higher dosage.. unless you take a LONGG time off in between..if you decide to stick to the same dosage as the previous cycle chances are your gains wont be as drastic..everyone says there is nothing like a first cycle..

**Kidstuff** · 03-14-2006, 11:13 AM

DNP i believe cleanses your steroid receptors.

**musclestack** · 03-14-2006, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Kidstuff

DNP i believe cleanses your steroid receptors.

I'm curious, bro, do you have any valid data to verify this?

**muscle_20** · 03-14-2006, 01:04 PM

i have also heard of this dnp clears receptor thing loads of times.

no the body does not get used to the drug(tolerance).

**cutting_king** · 03-14-2006, 01:58 PM

I would say that there isn't much chance of building a tolerance to juice for the reason that it is a naturally occuring hormone in your body (Albeit a synthetic version of it) and if your body built up a tolerance to it your body would have to then constantly keep producing more natural test levels just to sustain your body in its natural environment (if that makes any sense)

**speedtraining** · 03-14-2006, 02:05 PM

depends on how long you've been off, but personally i've been off for near a year and when i came back with the same amount of prop a week (700mgs) i'm doing great with it.

**Swifto** · 03-14-2006, 02:09 PM

I think this is an intresting subject...I think tolerance is like the debate about receptor up regulation/down regulation. Does it exist? Some say it doesnt, others argue it does.

BUMP for more replies.

**SS1476** · 03-14-2006, 07:33 PM

Interesting...bump for more replies

**groundandpoundpwr21** · 03-14-2006, 07:34 PM

I dont think it has to do with tolerence I think it has to do more with genetic limit. The further past your genetic limit you go there more juice your going to need to maintain it and the more your going to need to get further. LIke a car you know. Everytime you put a gallon in you may get 20 miles, but you want 40 miles your going to need more go juice. Thats why ou dont see pro cycles at 500mg of test a week. Cause 300 pounds at 4% bf aint normal.

**HUNTER1** · 03-14-2006, 08:25 PM

next cycle doesn't necessarly have to be stronger. Different compounds, combination of drugs, synergy of compounds, fast acting/short acting, length between cycles, etc. --> all affect the body differently. there are many factors to take into consideration. but the rule of up regulation and down regulation will always apply to the receptors. the more a receptor is exposed to a compound, over time,more compound will be required to produce the same effect.

however, the whole DNP thing about cleaning receptors is new to me. i'd like to hear some thoughs/studies on this topic.

**elite2kr** · 03-14-2006, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by HUNTER1

next cycle doesn't necessarly have to be stronger. Different compounds, combination of drugs, synergy of compounds, fast acting/short acting, length between cycles, etc. --> all affect the body differently. there are many factors to take into consideration. but the rule of up regulation and down regulation will always apply to the receptors. the more a receptor is exposed to a compound, over time,more compound will be required to produce the same effect.

however, the whole DNP thing about cleaning receptors is new to me. i'd like to hear some thoughs/studies on this topic.

Studies have been conducted that pesticides can lower testostrone. I think dnp can accualy lower natrual testosterone if used to much in a short period or to long of a cycle. I had a freind who used it and develped gyno about a week after coming off it. He has never taken steriods or ph, so this led me to belive mabe the dnp lowerd his test enough for estrogen to get the upper hand.

**HUNTER1** · 03-14-2006, 10:50 PM

great post, thanks.

anybody else have any other thoughts/opinions?

**Rickson** · 03-14-2006, 11:35 PM

I agree with groundandpound. I think for most people after their first cycle they are much closer to or have surpassed their genetic limit and don't see the gains they once did. Obviously if you gained 25lbs of muscle in your first cycle, then you won't continue to do that every cycle. If you did I would be 4000lbs of pure muscle by now.

**stupidhippo** · 03-15-2006, 12:09 AM

[QUOTE=HUNTER1]. but the rule of up regulation and down regulation will always apply to the receptors. the more a receptor is exposed to a compound, over time,more compound will be required to produce the same effect.QUOTE]

Now this is just not true. Its a possible mechanism of tolerance but it doesnt always apply.. 2 adrenergic recptors it applies. Androgenic receptors it probably doesnt. Androgen use has been shown to increase receptor sites (but that can also lead to tolerance) For sure the receptors cant explain the tolerance effect completely.. The receptor ligand relationship isnt so straight forward that ppl seem to think.. their saturation, effector mechanisms etc are more complex... Now this is just me but I waited pretty long till I started to cycle AND I have never gained from a cycle (not even my first) like many others do. Then I also seem to start regressing back towards where I was no matter how well I do PCT. Other fact that seems to suport this is that my legs (which werent as strong as my upper body to start with) have developed a lot more when cycling and I also am able to maintain their strength a lot better..

**stupidhippo** · 03-15-2006, 12:14 AM

Originally Posted by Rickson

I agree with groundandpound. I think for most people after their first cycle they are much closer to or have surpassed their genetic limit and don't see the gains they once did. Obviously if you gained 25lbs of muscle in your first cycle, then you won't continue to do that every cycle. If you did I would be 4000lbs of pure muscle by now.

agreed... Ill take me and my firend as an example: we both did our first cycles at the same time.. he did 300 of test a week + 200 of deca . I did 700 of test + 400 of deca (same gear). He was like 180 lbs (not lean)and I was 260 lbs, we r the same height. Our BF % were about the same, mine a lil higher.. anyway He was able to gain a lot more than I with a smaller dose. He didnt do any PCT while I did. He didnt work out after that much and didnt eat that great. I did. He was able to still keep almost all of his gains while I wasnt..

**stupidhippo** · 03-15-2006, 12:17 AM

now this makes me think.. after all this cycling when we eventually quit are we gonna regress back to were we were naturally or to the so called natural limit.. Now I would like to hear from some veterans who have taken years off. Remeber this doesnt apply to those who werent pretty close to their natural limit while natural.. I believe they can maintain maybe a higher level than they were naturally.

**groundandpoundpwr21** · 03-15-2006, 10:20 PM

Sorry to hijack but about dnp raising estrogen and causing gyno, but I thought I read somewhere people were including dnp in pct? I could be wrong though.

**HUNTER1** · 03-15-2006, 10:38 PM

hippo, i can see your point as well, but like Swifto said --> some argue the theory of up/down regulation exists while others disagree. I remeber studying it in physiology and I think its effects are exerted on most users.

I think thats why some folks don't respond as well to the same compound's dosages as they did previously. However, you and Rickson make valid points as well in refering to genetic potential. I agree w/ you on that aspect, both contribute to the need for higher dosages/compounds, genetics probably more so than up/down regulation.

**got fina?** · 03-15-2006, 11:34 PM

I think this i sa great question and one that i have asked myself many times before.
Im no expert but i would think that any drug u put in your body your body will slowly start getting used to it and will no longer work like it did that first time.
For example if u take 500mg/week of sus for a long time u will everntually reach a point where its not making u grow like the first maybe 2 months.
I think the same thing applies to any drug u put in your body.

I also believe that by letting go of that drug and waiting a while it will eventually start working good again but dont believe your body to foget about it, and maybe will work a bit less the next time.

I also believe that once your are eventually done taking steroids for good u will go back to your natural peak, since your body is not producing the chemicals that got u that big in the first place.

These are just my views and opinions which make sence to me.

good luck.......

**stupidhippo** · 03-15-2006, 11:57 PM

Originally Posted by HUNTER1

hippo, i can see your point as well, but like Swifto said --> some argue the theory of up/down regulation exists while others disagree. I remeber studying it in physiology and I think its effects are exerted on most users.

Wel Im not gonna argue about receoptor regulation in this matter (AAS) since its still a bit unclear like u said.. my point was only to say that receptor regulation is only a possible mechanism to cause tolerance, not a process that will automatically happen.. not all receptors go through this when exposed to a ligand...

**Power Viking** · 03-16-2006, 05:53 PM

In the book "Building the Perfect Beast" the author says that there are "levels" to take into consideration. By this he means that after staying on a certain level, say 250 mg/week of test, for a while you`ll get as much out of it as the body can utilize. You then have to move up to a new "level", say 500 mg/week.

If you start at "level2" your body won`t be able to utilize it all, your gains will be the same as at level 1 (perhaps like level1 + 30%, but not optimal). The result is that your body will get used to the amount of "level2" and thereby "robbing" you of the opportunity to go back to "level1". The conclusion is that you should always stay at the lowest amount of roids that give you acceptable gains. Only when this dose fails to deliver should you go up a "level".