2nd cycle - What ya think - booz, marcus, pinn

**Schwarz** · 03-16-2006, 07:32 AM

Hi,
First cycle was last year. I did

500mg Test ew split in 2 doses for 13 weeks
400mg EQ ew split in 2 doses for 12 weeks
20mg Proviron ED
20mg Nolva ed

Then HCG during the 2 weeks before PCT and then regular PCT with Clomid and Nolva

It was a good cycle. Strength went up and gained about 18.5lbs in all. But I didn't feel like I was "on" like some people describe and waiting for everything to kick in was a bit frustrating so for my second cycle I was going to do

750mg test e ew split into 2 doses for 13 weeks
50mg tbol for 5 weeks
20mg Proviron ed
10 mg Nolva ed

Followed by HGC and then PCT.

I've increased the test e coz on the previous cycle the aas didn't really feel like they were doing much...perhaps they were struggling coz I was already about 220lbs when I started. Perhaps I'm being silly now but at 235lbs now I'm thinking I perhaps need more...am I being silly?

Added the Tbol in coz I want something to kick start it. It was either an oral or Prop and I'm not ready yet for the ed injections and the pain...perhaps next cycle. Heard/read some good things about tbol so decided to go with that instead of dbol .

Any comments/suggestions??

Much appreciated.

S

**WelshWarrior** · 03-16-2006, 07:47 AM

I know it was adressed to the vets, but why less nolva with more test 2nd time round?

**Schwarz** · 03-16-2006, 07:52 AM

Originally Posted by WelshWarrior

I know it was adressed to the vets, but why less nolva with more test 2nd time round?

Sorry bro I meant everyone else as well but if I could get one of those vets to chime in with their experience then that would be good.

Re the nolva. At times on cycle I felt really tired and I recently read an article that showed the reason for this was high levels of anti estrogens used during cycle. So I was going to lower it slightly and see how it went...if there were any problems then I'd bump it up to 20mg.

Anyway the proviron is still in there and this combo first time around gave me no problems and kept me dry as a bone with not even a little itch in the nips.

Thanks
S

**marcus300** · 03-16-2006, 08:14 AM

If its your second cycle your planning i wouldnt up the dose of the test, id keep it around 500mg per week and introduce other compounds, i might be the wrong person to help you with tbol because i hate the stuff, i dont like it one bit but thats just me, but i feel there are more better compounds to use IMHO.

I also wouldnt say the test didnt do its job, you gained 18.5lbs which is a very good result by any standard, i would replace the tbol with dbol and i would drop some prop in for the last 2 weeks up to pct start time, say run the main test up to wk 12 and then prop for 12-14.

I love proviron but this is again personaly preference, id leave the proviron until pct, its a amazing compound for pct and to help with all the down sides what comes with cycling, i would also consider adding another compound to run along side the test, this would depend on what kind of gains you are looking for, make sure you have good time off before you start your next cycle and prime your body and this will give you a very good base for even more muscle tissue gains.

To keep on gaining you will have to look at your diet this will unlock potential muscle growth for your future cycle, what kind of gains are you looking for with the next cycle?

Marcus

**magic32** · 03-16-2006, 08:26 AM

My $.02:
Lower the test back to 500 (there's no need to escalate so much/so quickly).
Since you like being "dry to the bone" Tbol is a good choice, as Marcus stated Dbol would be okay (since you're running Prov & Nolva alongside), but I prefer Tbol and since you're using it as kicker I'd increase it to between 60-80mgs. Other than that this looks very good and well thought out.

M.

**Schwarz** · 03-16-2006, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

If its your second cycle your planning i wouldnt up the dose of the test, id keep it around 500mg per week and introduce other compounds, i might be the wrong person to help you with tbol because i hate the stuff, i dont like it one bit but thats just me, but i feel there are more better compounds to use IMHO.

Cheers for chiming in Marcus. Why do you hate tbol so much? Apart from dbol and prop what other compunds can you recommend to fulfill this role of "kickstarter"?

Originally Posted by marcus300

I also wouldnt say the test didnt do its job, you gained 18.5lbs which is a very good result by any standard, i would replace the tbol with dbol and i would drop some prop in for the last 2 weeks up to pct start time, say run the main test up to wk 12 and then prop for 12-14..

I hadn't thought of adding the prop at the end like that (i think I could handle 2 weeks of prop). That might be an option. Thanks. What dose/frequency would you recommend I run the prop at?

Originally Posted by marcus300

I love proviron but this is again personaly preference, id leave the proviron until pct, its a amazing compound for pct and to help with all the down sides what comes with cycling, i would also consider adding another compound to run along side the test, this would depend on what kind of gains you are looking for, make sure you have good time off before you start your next cycle and prime your body and this will give you a very good base for even more muscle tissue gains...

I really loved proviron as well. Made me look real solid and hard! I've heard you say about using it during PCT. I will look into this. The PCT I did was really good and brought me back well so I don't know if I want to mess with it as it worked well for me but i will investigte this option.

I'm still looking to add size but I want it to look as discreet as possible which is why i've gone for the tbol and the EQ in the last cycle and why I probably wouldn't do deca or dbol. Can you recommend any other compuds I should look at/investigate that might help me add size but at a more discreet level?

Originally Posted by marcus300

To keep on gaining you will have to look at your diet this will unlock potential muscle growth for your future cycle, what kind of gains are you looking for with the next cycle?

Marcus

Thanks I've realised this since my last cycle and have made some serious changes esp to my carb intake and I am already seeing the benefits. Am always looking to learn more about nutrition. For the next cycle I'd like to get as close to 250lbs as possible. My overal long term goal is about 260 with a good maintainable 9-11% bf (currently about 14%).

Thanks again

S

**Schwarz** · 03-16-2006, 08:43 AM

Originally Posted by magic32

My $.02:
Lower the test back to 500 (there's no need to escalate so much/so quickly).
Since you like being "dry to the bone" Tbol is a good choice, as Marcus stated Dbol would be okay (since you're running Prov & Nolva alongside), but I prefer Tbol and since you're using it as kicker I'd increase it to between 60-80mgs. Other than that this looks very good and well thought out.

M.

Cheers bro. I'm just at the beginning of my research for my 2nd cycle so just trying to get ideas so I can go away and research.....

Not doing the cycle until september so I got a good amount of time....

Can you elaborate more on your experiences with tbol.....any sides esp liver values?

Cheers

S

**HUNTER1** · 03-16-2006, 08:59 AM

i'd like to hear some more results on t-bol as well. I've never tried it, but am thinking about it.

**marcus300** · 03-16-2006, 12:31 PM

Originally Posted by Schwarz

Cheers for chiming in Marcus. Why do you hate tbol so much? Apart from dbol and prop what other compunds can you recommend to fulfill this role of "kickstarter"?

I hadn't thought of adding the prop at the end like that (i think I could handle 2 weeks of prop). That might be an option. Thanks. What dose/frequency would you recommend I run the prop at?

I really loved proviron as well. Made me look real solid and hard! I've heard you say about using it during PCT. I will look into this. The PCT I did was really good and brought me back well so I don't know if I want to mess with it as it worked well for me but i will investigte this option.

I'm still looking to add size but I want it to look as discreet as possible which is why i've gone for the tbol and the EQ in the last cycle and why I probably wouldn't do deca or dbol. Can you recommend any other compuds I should look at/investigate that might help me add size but at a more discreet level?

Thanks I've realised this since my last cycle and have made some serious changes esp to my carb intake and I am already seeing the benefits. Am always looking to learn more about nutrition. For the next cycle I'd like to get as close to 250lbs as possible. My overal long term goal is about 260 with a good maintainable 9-11% bf (currently about 14%).

Thanks again

S

I am the wrong man to advice on tbol because i dont like it at all, ive tried it a few times and i just dont really respond, i feel there are better compounds out there what will do the job better.

Running the prop at the end of the cycle is a good idea it will fill the gap between the test E and pct,it also gives the body a final little kick, Id go for around 75mg ED for the final 2 weeks,

If your pct work really well before i wouldnt change it, if it worked good it will again am sure, but proviron is one of my number one compounds for pct.

There are many other compounds you could introduce, i wouldnt worry about not using certain ones because you want to keep as lean as possible, keeping lean is all down to the diet, diet very very important for building and keeping lean, seeing thats its your second cycle look more into your diet for further gains, id still kick it with dbol and finish it with prop tho

Marcus

BG · 03-16-2006, 12:43 PM

I agree with keeping test dosage lower, I tried 1000mg, gains remained the same but sides increased greatly. Night sweats, acne ,everything.

**manc** · 03-16-2006, 02:52 PM

18 pounds!! i think it worked very well

**Anabolios** · 03-16-2006, 02:57 PM

how did you like running the proviron with it? i know it lowers shbg which increses free test so i think its a wise choice to run with nolva for keeping the bloat down

**Swifto** · 03-16-2006, 03:12 PM

I've just started my second and it is very similar to yours. Its as follows:

wk 1-8 Tbol 60mg/ED
wk 1-14 Test Enan 500mg/wk
wk 12-16 Test Prop 75mg/ED
wk 1-PCT Proviron 25mg/ED

HCG in the middle of the cycle and 10-15 days before running upto PCT. Nolva on hand.

I've run Tbol at 50mg/ED and 60mg/ED. Currently 60mg/ED. I occasionally have a headache after taking it for an hour or so, but this subsides and goes completely after 1-2 weeks. The worst side is the gaseous stomach problems. Constantly bloated and farting. It does get better though. For me, the gains outweigh the sides. I get more vascualar, feel better about myself and get good sustainable strength gains. I suggest it to anyone. Starting on 40-50mg/ED and working your way up.

**Booz** · 03-16-2006, 04:06 PM

i will agree with marcus on the tbol mate.....i have used it and tho i did get good gains with the compound i found that it upset my stomache to the degree that i found eating very hard..............and that is not what you need at the beggining of a cycle....
personnaly i would not up the dose of test just add something else into the equation......

**Swifto** · 03-16-2006, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by booz

i will agree with marcus on the tbol mate.....i have used it and tho i did get good gains with the compound i found that it upset my stomache to the degree that i found eating very hard..............and that is not what you need at the beggining of a cycle....
personnaly i would not up the dose of test just add something else into the equation......

Noooo.....

**marcus300** · 03-16-2006, 04:15 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Noooo.....

oh yeeeees

**Swifto** · 03-16-2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by marcus300

oh yeeeees

**Schwarz** · 03-17-2006, 04:01 AM

Thanks to all you guys. You've given me a load to think about/decide on and research.....

Cheers
S

**Schwarz** · 03-17-2006, 04:10 AM

Originally Posted by Swifto

I've just started my second and it is very similar to yours. Its as follows:

wk 1-8 Tbol 60mg/ED
wk 1-14 Test Enan 500mg/wk
wk 12-16 Test Prop 75mg/ED
wk 1-PCT Proviron 25mg/ED

HCG in the middle of the cycle and 10-15 days before running upto PCT. Nolva on hand.

I've run Tbol at 50mg/ED and 60mg/ED. Currently 60mg/ED. I occasionally have a headache after taking it for an hour or so, but this subsides and goes completely after 1-2 weeks. The worst side is the gaseous stomach problems. Constantly bloated and farting. It does get better though. For me, the gains outweigh the sides. I get more vascualar, feel better about myself and get good sustainable strength gains. I suggest it to anyone. Starting on 40-50mg/ED and working your way up.

Awesome. Don't suppose your keeping a cycle log anywhere are you? I'd like to follow your progress??

Cheers
S