Advice for a Desperate HardGainer

**Hardgainer77** · 04-30-2006, 06:06 PM

Just a quick story to see where I am coming from:

I am an extreme hard gainer, having an incredibly hard time putting on muscle but I gain fat very easily. For 2 years I have been working out trying different eating plans with different work out plans, from working out every day to 3 times a week. In that time I have put on 10 pounds... but the funny thing is more then half of that weight is fat. 155p 15.5%bf to 165 18.5%bf and I am 6foot 1...

This month I have been counting my calories eating about 3000-3250 a day, and gained 3.5 pounds at a 40%protien 30%carb 30% ratio diet. To bad 3 pounds was fat and .5 was muscle. I have finally had it and am looking to roid myself up.

The problem is I have early stages of male pattern baldness, and I am worried if I start juicing I will kick my hairloss into high gear.

Can you guys recommend what steriod would be the safest hair wise to take? I am currently taking propecia for the hairloss.

Thank you

**Nelstar** · 04-30-2006, 06:11 PM

Well bro, you may need to look closer at your lifestyle and exercise routine.. are you training, properly? Are you doing cardio? You're lifestyle, party it up often?
Juice isn't a magic shot or pill that morphs you, youve got to put in just as much work if not more to reach the results you seek. As for the hair... depending on your age and what you take... itcan be saved

**Hardgainer77** · 04-30-2006, 06:27 PM

Hi Nelstar, thanks for the response to answer some of your questions:

Right now my training plan is 5 times a week, focusing on free weight mass gainer exercises, bp, squats pull ups, dead lifts etc (4 sets of 2-7reps) with a burnout set after. Work outs are mostly 45min-1hour
I am doing 0 cardio right now
I rarely party anymore and the last 3 months I have been pretty dedicated to my diet. I have not had any alcohol in that time.
I am also eating pretty health, most my calories are coming from whey powder, weight gainer, and flaxseed oil or udo oil. When I go out I try to get the salads or roast chicken (no fries). That's why its pissing me off that I keep gaining fat and no muscle.

**2bshredded** · 04-30-2006, 06:37 PM

Maybe you're not lifting heavy enough, do you max every six months or so.
I use the heaviest possible weight and push myself, are you doing cores like the dead, clean and jerk? Just some ideas for you. Good luck

**stew piddasel** · 04-30-2006, 06:39 PM

you sound like me except i am 6' 245 and around 18 to 17 % bf.I used to weigh around 220 with 15 to 14 bf until i decided i wanted to gain. If you decide to gain not all will be muscle, even if you use ass!You just have to go with it and make sure your getting stronger.

**Nelstar** · 04-30-2006, 06:41 PM

have you always been heavyset? if so you may have slow metabolism.. implement some cario asap.. at long durations with a steady rate perferably first thing in the morning to jump start it.
As for partying (sips beer) very good.
Diet seems clean... perhaps you may have another issuse at hand, have you seen a doctor about this (possile medical condition)? If not i suggest you get an appointment and tell him the same as me. You can mention the juice but he will probably try to talk you out of it.

**stew piddasel** · 04-30-2006, 06:45 PM

6'1 155 is not heavy set by any means.

**Njectable** · 04-30-2006, 06:59 PM

Originally Posted by stew piddasel

6'1 155 is not heavy set by any means.

well at 165 and 18.5%bf thats not exactly ripped either by any means. You can't just go by his weight and height because at 6'1 165lbs i would of figured he would be skin and bones, but with 18.5%bf that is likely not the case. I would check the diet forum bro and eat lots and lots of healthy foods. Stay away from foods with lots of fat and fast food and shit like that. But just keep eating. If you do that, along with working out you are bound to grow.

**Hardgainer77** · 04-30-2006, 08:29 PM

Yeah I am not ripped by any means, my bodyfat is way to high. I have a small bone structure which is probably why I have such a hard time putting on weight. The only body part getting bigger is my damn stomach, I have tiny wrists (they were about the same size as my ex-girlfriend who was a 115 pound white girl lol). So yeah I do look like skin and bones, except for my face and stomach which is where all my damn fat is being stored. I actually looked better when I was 155 pounds because my face and stomach actually matched my body.

My metabolism is high thats why I am not doing any cardio right now.
I did fatloss before and went from 160pounds 16.5%bf back down to 155 15.5% bf. So pretty much where back where I started lol, thats why I feel so down.
As for medical conditions I have had my blood tested recently and everything is normal: thyroid, blood sugar levels, and test levels

I can lift as much as some guys who are much bigger then me (well pretty much everyone is) and I use better form yet I can't gain a damn pound of muscle. I lift heavy and am mostly sore the day after, and don't work out my sore muscles.

Seriously I think god played a genetic joke on me wtf! So you guys still think I should stay natural? What about trying some m1t's... my buddy was going to share a bottle with me.

**Njectable** · 04-30-2006, 08:45 PM

first post your routine in the workout forum so people can critique that, and then goto the diet forum and see what you hafta change with that. I would do those two things before getting into a prohormone.

**extremefighter** · 05-03-2006, 10:54 AM

Lift heavy, very heavy. Squats, deadlifts, bench. Stay away from the machines. Try drinking a protein drink in between each meal. Stay away from sugar and bad fat.

**taiboxa** · 05-03-2006, 11:24 AM

diet

fix it or u will never gain
i can promise u .. that u dont know as much as you think u do about the nutrtional aspect of "GETTING BIG"

goto diet section here and research ..

**Grappler13** · 05-03-2006, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

diet

fix it or u will never gain
i can promise u .. that u dont know as much as you think u do about the nutrtional aspect of "GETTING BIG"

goto diet section here and research ..

It is incredibly difficult to consume enough clean calories to truly bulk. I was eating close to 6000K last cycle and did it dirty.....next time will be clean. If your diet is right, you should be able to gain muscle with little fat and hold off on the juice until you've learned how to eat properly. Also, I agree with extremefighter about the heavy compound movements. Deads, Cleans, Bench, weighted negative chins, etc.....Those exercises build alot of muscle and muslce likes to consume calories.

**taiboxa** · 05-03-2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Grappler13

It is incredibly difficult to consume enough clean calories to truly bulk. I was eating close to 6000K last cycle and did it dirty.....next time will be clean. If your diet is right, you should be able to gain muscle with little fat and hold off on the juice until you've learned how to eat properly. Also, I agree with extremefighter about the heavy compound movements. Deads, Cleans, Bench, weighted negative chins, etc.....Those exercises build alot of muscle and muslce likes to consume calories.

bro u dont need 6000 cals LOL (u nut) i have 240+lbs of LBM and i kan grow on 5k kcals
its all about proper timeing and what u eat
its only 40-50 cals extra a day that a lb of muscle will consume in a male.
usually the problems lies w/ ones FAT intake they need lots of GOOD fats since they are easily consumed and have mad calorie value.

and for future reference Hardgainer77 PLEASE do not ever say "ROID UP" or make a reference to aas as ROIDS man i hate that media slang ><

do the harrisons formula u will see what u really need to gain.

**LOKITSC** · 05-03-2006, 02:23 PM

165 at 6'1 is pretty skinny. Try to bulk and ignore fat gains. Increase caloric intake to at least 4k. Lift hard, lift heavy. You should be able to gain 20 to 30lb in a few months. Then increase cardio and reduce calories, cut. I guess I'm just sold on the bulking/cutting cycle approach. I went from 155 to 180 in two months natrually by using weight gainer and reducing cadio. (currently on my first cycle and over 200lb.) You don't want to start a cycle at 165 when you could gain naturally first.

Good luck

**taiboxa** · 05-03-2006, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by LOKITSC

165 at 6'1 is pretty skinny. Try to bulk and ignore fat gains. Increase caloric intake to at least 4k. Lift hard, lift heavy. You should be able to gain 20 to 30lb in a few months. Then increase cardio and reduce calories, cut. I guess I'm just sold on the bulking/cutting cycle approach. I went from 155 to 180 in two months natrually by using weight gainer and reducing cadio. (currently on my first cycle and over 200lb.) You don't want to start a cycle at 165 when you could gain naturally first.

Good luck

uhh 20-30?!
the average natty lifter can gain about 8lbs of LBM in a year..
thats not counting fat and stuff

**LOKITSC** · 05-03-2006, 02:33 PM

Tai

I know that sounds like a lot of weight. But this guy is 6'1 and 165. If he's been training and not eating enough calories his body should be primed for growth. Also, putting on that much weight that fast, he's sure to increase body fat but should be able to put on a lot of muscle. Sounds unrealistic but I've seen it happen.

***BajanBastard*** · 05-03-2006, 02:44 PM

Something is defiantly wrong here. How can one be a 'hard gainer' yet be at 165lbs 18.5%bf, 6’ 1?

If i were you i would get a blood test too see my testosterone , estrogen, IGF and thyroid hormone levels. If they come back normal, your diet would be at fault.

**C_Bino** · 05-03-2006, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by big k.l.g

Something is defiantly wrong here. How can one be a 'hard gainer' yet be at 165lbs 18.5%bf, 6’ 1?

If i were you i would get a blood test too see my testosterone, estrogen, IGF and thyroid hormone levels. If they come back normal, your diet would be at fault.

I was gonna say the same thing. He says he is a hard gainer, then he says hes over 18% bf then he says he has fast metabolism...Im lost.
If you have fast metabolism you wont be at 18%bf, and if you are a hardgainer you wont be at 18%bf either.
Like Tai said you diet must be off as well as your training routine.

**Hardgainer77** · 05-03-2006, 07:44 PM

Thanks for the advice guys, I will recheck my diet and check out the diet forums.

I was going to do fatloss for a month first before I try to bulk up again since its so damn high, isn't being around the 20% range bad for your body?

I don't know why my bf is so high, it seems when I up my calories I only put on fat weight and no muscle weight, again I think it is because my bone structure is so small. I am one of those geneticly cursed guys who gains fat easily but not muscle.
I think my metabolism is fast, because before I started counting calories I ate a ton of junk food whenever I was hungry and never gained a pound (muscle or fat).
It is only when I started counting calories and trying to force around 3k+ calories into my body that I start putting on the fat.

Do you think the carbs I am eatting could be the problem? I eat white rice, potates, oatmeal, and my post workout meal is 1000 calories worth of weight gainer.
Also the chicken I eat is mostly thighs or drum sticks.

Sorry taiboxa no disrespect meant with the roid up comment.

**TheDfromGC** · 05-03-2006, 08:01 PM

i read through this and i didnt see u state ur age at any point, how old??

**brundle** · 05-03-2006, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Hardgainer77

I am an extreme hard gainer, having an incredibly hard time putting on muscle but I gain fat very easily.

that makes no sense at all. A hardgainer is someone who has a hard time putting on weight (musle or fat). maybe your blood levels/hormone are screwed up

**Bigmax** · 05-03-2006, 08:16 PM

Dude stick to the oatmeal,your rice should be brown and potatoe should be sweet potato,but as someone stated that for the diet forum.

**TheDfromGC** · 05-03-2006, 08:22 PM

what he said makes sense to a certain point, not everybody is exactly 1 body type, some may have mixed characteristics. a hardgainer is classified by small frame, trouble putting on weight- muscle or fat (ectomorph), but he seems to have a mix of ectomorph in terms of muscle gaining and bone structure and the characteristics of an endomorph in terms of fat gaining. i remember a guy on here a long time ago talking about he had really skinny arms and skinny legs and a huge stomach. its rare but it does happen. like everybody said, ur eating the wrong foods and training 5 times a week is overtraining for somebody like u. id drop training down to 3-4 times a week and no more then 45mins. im a hardgainer myself and always keep my workouts less then 40mins and have had pretty good progress over the past year or so . get in the gym and hit ur muscles hard with compounds exercises then get out of there and load up on good carbs and proteins.

**Rare** · 05-03-2006, 08:26 PM

EAT,EAT and Eat Good Protz and Carbs. I was Once you Trust me you Gotta Eat Bro

**heavyhitter08** · 05-03-2006, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by Hardgainer77

Hi Nelstar, thanks for the response to answer some of your questions:

Right now my training plan is 5 times a week, focusing on free weight mass gainer exercises, bp, squats pull ups, dead lifts etc (4 sets of 2-7reps) with a burnout set after. Work outs are mostly 45min-1hour
I am doing 0 cardio right now
I rarely party anymore and the last 3 months I have been pretty dedicated to my diet. I have not had any alcohol in that time.
I am also eating pretty health, most my calories are coming from whey powder, weight gainer, and flaxseed oil or udo oil. When I go out I try to get the salads or roast chicken (no fries). That's why its pissing me off that I keep gaining fat and no muscle.

you say that most of your calories come from whey powder and weight gainers. If your bulking or on some type of LBM diet most of your calories should come from FOOD. Shakes should only be used to replace a meal if you miss it... just my .2 cents

**binny** · 05-03-2006, 08:48 PM

Man, I was in the same boat as u was a couple months ago.....I fixed my diet and concentrated on compund movements......i started at 168 march end and right now i m 185......if theres one thing i have learnt so far that is EAT BIG LIFT BIG

**D-Money** · 05-03-2006, 09:25 PM

A clean diet!

**gabriel595** · 05-03-2006, 09:37 PM

This month I have been counting my calories eating about 3000-3250 a day, and gained 3.5 pounds at a 40%protien 30%carb 30% ratio diet.

hey bro, maybe your diet is poor. up your calories to 4000 or more if you can. your protein/carb/fat ratio should be 30/60/10 something like that i haven't calculate much.. make sure you eat 1.5-2 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight and eat CLEAN. if you do this right im sure youre going to gain some muscle, maybe you gain a little fat but you can burn it then, first focuse on bulking. the idea of eating more carbs than protein is to use ALL your carbs as the main source of energy in your body so you can use all the protein to build muscle.

**gabriel595** · 05-03-2006, 09:42 PM

diet is 70% of BB... arnold's advice

**Hardgainer77** · 05-03-2006, 10:26 PM

TheDfromGC i read through this and i didnt see u state ur age at any point, how old??

I am 26

i remember a guy on here a long time ago talking about he had really skinny arms and skinny legs and a huge stomach. its rare but it does happen.

Yeah I have that problem too, big stomach and fat face for how skinny the rest of my body is.

I will do some fatloss to get rid of this gut, and then try eatting 4k calories clean, and keep the shakes to a minimum.

Thanks guys

**gabriel595** · 05-03-2006, 10:38 PM

shake in the morning, shake after WO, shake before bed. thats it.

**jayheero** · 05-04-2006, 01:40 AM

eat wholesome foods cant rely on weightgainers half of them are full of sugar enough to give a diabetes patient a heart attack a week within seriously nothing beats wholesome foods eat eat not weight gainer shakes tuna, chicken, eat healthy than watch you will stop packing fat and puton muscle.