cant gain off AAS anymore!

**G-Force** · 05-31-2006, 03:48 AM

i have been bulking up and then cutting with AAS in traditional bodybuilding fashion for 2 years now

i have just finished my 4th cycle and it seems i have made little progress since my first one

8 months ago i was at 185lbs 8% bf
today after my 4th cycle i am 196lbs but with a bf of around 10 - 12%

it seems i havent gained any muscle - just fat in this time

is it possible i cannot gain any more muscle with AAS?
i wouldnt have thought i could reach my genetic limit so early - seeing as i am only 26 - but evidence is suggesting the contrary

my diet is pretty much perfect - been studying it for year
all 100% healthy - only going 500kcals above or below maintenance

ARSE

FIRST CYCLE: 1- 12 enan 500mg EW and 1-4 dbol 30mg ED

168lbs 11% bf - 200lbs 14% bf

2- 3 weeks gap (stupid i know)

SECOND CYCLE: 1- 12 sust, 500mg EW 1-4 dbol, 40mg ED 1-12 eq cant remember but it was low

only a 2 week break between first and last cycle
ended up maybe 202lbs 14%

12 week gap

THIRD CYCLE: 1- 12 sust 500mg EW 1-4drol, 100mg ED 5-16 tren 50mg ED, 9-16 var 60mg ED

this was a cutter (includng 4 week bulk at start)

from 182lbs 14% to 185lbs 8%

16 week gap

FOURTH CYCLE 1- 12 sust 750mg EW 1-4dbol 50mg ED 1-12 deca 400mg EW, 12-15 prop 100mg ED

182lbs 10% - 196 12%

**MuscleHeadz** · 05-31-2006, 03:52 AM

u did not mention anything about dosages????... 4th cycle is too early to hit a gear plateau.. are u sure your gear is not fake?

**G-Force** · 05-31-2006, 03:58 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleHeadz

u did not mention anything about dosages????... 4th cycle is too early to hit a gear plateau.. are u sure your gear is not fake?

ive just edited my original post - dosages are in red

yeah i'm pretty sure my gear isnt fake

i always grow like a weed in the first 4 weeks with either drol or dbol then MUCH slower gains for the remainder

**marcus300** · 05-31-2006, 04:01 AM

Very good detailed history,
How long have you had off cycle inbetween the courses?

**G-Force** · 05-31-2006, 04:05 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

Very good detailed history,
How long have you had off cycle inbetween the courses?

cheers marcus
check out the green in my first post for off cycle gaps

**marcus300** · 05-31-2006, 04:12 AM

You mention your diet you only go over 500cals over maitainance, even when your go on a bulking cycle?

**Ejuicer** · 05-31-2006, 04:13 AM

Are you confident in the legitimacy of your gear?
It seems like a very odd situation if everything you say is accurate, diet etc. that you would put on bf with such a small caloric increase. One thing that wouldn't hurt would be to increase your doses a bit next time around as you have stayed on the low end in your previous cycles.

**G-Force** · 05-31-2006, 04:18 AM

i am usually over 500kcals above maintenance at the end of the cycle

i started at 500 and by week 12 i was more like 750 - 1000kcals above maintenance and still not gaining

i cant say 100% that my gear was all real

but i do know that all the dbol /drol i got were real as i grew really quickly off them - if my injectables werent real - i wouldve lost my gains from the orals in the preceeding 8+ weeks of my cycle

this was not the case - i gained much slower in these weeks but was still gaining (although not at all past 10weeks)

**G-Force** · 05-31-2006, 04:21 AM

before and after pictures

first pics were 8 months ago (after 3rd cycle)

second pics were 2 weeks ago (after 4th cycle)

before and after cycle (from 185 to 196)

**marcus300** · 05-31-2006, 04:28 AM

I would have good time off cycle and maintain the muscle tissue you have got, id say the more the better, you will have dips were strength and weight loss may occur but stick with it they will rebound, try all the natural supplements around to hold onto the muscle,

Id plan a bulking cycle with good solid compounds and look at your diet, id defo increase the Cal's when on cycle, just clean bulk if thats the goal, i would also change the make of your gear never know it could be well underdosed or fake like ejuicer stated,

Now personally i would shock your body with the next cycle and do a short cycle with increased dosages, reason behind this is your normal cycles are not working try something different,

I think Ive covered everything.....

**G-Force** · 05-31-2006, 04:54 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

I would have good time off cycle and maintain the muscle tissue you have got, id say the more the better, you will have dips were strength and weight loss may occur but stick with it they will rebound, try all the natural supplements around to hold onto the muscle,

Id plan a bulking cycle with good solid compounds and look at your diet, id defo increase the Cal's when on cycle, just clean bulk if thats the goal, i would also change the make of your gear never know it could be well underdosed or fake like ejuicer stated,

Now personally i would shock your body with the next cycle and do a short cycle with increased dosages, reason behind this is your normal cycles are not working try something different,

I think Ive covered everything.....

thanks marcus

yes i agree i need to shock my body and had actually planned a short heavy cycle as my next with prop/tren and var as a clean bulker for 4 - 6weeks

a mate even suggested giving test a rest seeing as i have used it every cycle and not really gained (although its difficult to tell)

although tren on its own will be problematic - i do have proviron for sex drive
and i am in the process of ordering some hgh
i also have slin and igf (which i'm using now in PCT)

will also be changing supplier

**marcus300** · 05-31-2006, 05:02 AM

I wouldnt go to heavy just alittle heavier than your use to.

**G-Force** · 05-31-2006, 05:06 AM

yeah i was thinking

150mg prop ED
100mg tren ED
100mg var ED

4- 6 weeks

**MuscleHeadz** · 05-31-2006, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

thanks marcus

yes i agree i need to shock my body and had actually planned a short heavy cycle as my next with prop/tren and var as a clean bulker for 4 - 6weeks

a mate even suggested giving test a rest seeing as i have used it every cycle and not really gained (although its difficult to tell)

although tren on its own will be problematic - i do have proviron for sex drive
and i am in the process of ordering some hgh
i also have slin and igf (which i'm using now in PCT)

will also be changing supplier

I personally disagree about dropping the test.. u might want to try prop but always keep test as the base of your cycle even if at low dosage especially if you're going to try GH. They both work together so well.... one of the best stacks in my opinion... Also, u never want to loose that sex drive... u still want to get laid right

)!!!!!!

**taiboxa** · 05-31-2006, 07:56 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

yeah i was thinking

150mg prop ED
100mg tren ED
100mg var ED

4- 6 weeks

replace var w/ a DHT deriv for more synergistic effects IMO

i would run that
like this
150prop ED wks 1-8
100mg tren ED wks 1-6,7
win last 5 weeks 75-100mgED
if ur diet is in check u WILL gain

**PapaPump8** · 05-31-2006, 01:26 PM

I'm having the same problem bro for some reason I just don't grow like I should I mean I'm on my 4th cycle and the first one I did I grew big time but since I just feel like I can't grow.I will gain the first 4 weeks then bam it's like I have nothing in my body. I'm taking a tren and prop 100 tren ED and 150 of proop EOD and I still have only gainned 6 lbs in 3 weeks the first week I gainned the 6 lbs since nothing and on top of that strength gains are not noticable. I just don't know why I don't react I use to think it was the roids but I have got it from 3 diffrent sources also I eat pretty good and work out hard but I just don't gain the 10-15 lbs I want. My bro is taking the same cycle and I think he is up 12 lbs but he stayed off the gear for like 9 months and i got on after 3 months of being off i think time off has something to do with it I think my body has never had more then 4 month time off.

**ODC0717** · 05-31-2006, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

replace var w/ a DHT deriv for more synergistic effects IMO

i would run that
like this
150prop ED wks 1-8
100mg tren ED wks 1-6,7
win last 5 weeks 75-100mgED
if ur diet is in check u WILL gain

Bump this.

Hey tai, I thought anavar was a DHT derivative?

Could be wrong, though, as I have been from time to time. I would extend the tren to week 7, but that's just because I don't like to run tren for 6 weeks, 8 is ideal for me, but that might not make it a 'short' cycle.

**taiboxa** · 05-31-2006, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by ODC0717

Bump this.

Hey tai, I thought anavar was a DHT derivative?

Could be wrong, though, as I have been from time to time. I would extend the tren to week 7, but that's just because I don't like to run tren for 6 weeks, 8 is ideal for me, but that might not make it a 'short' cycle.

nope not that i have ever heard/read thats why people who are prone to MPB take it

**G-Force** · 06-01-2006, 03:37 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

replace var w/ a DHT deriv for more synergistic effects IMO

i would run that
like this
150prop ED wks 1-8
100mg tren ED wks 1-6,7
win last 5 weeks 75-100mgED
if ur diet is in check u WILL gain

is there an alternative to winny i could use?
tbol perhaps?

i already have problems with my joints - even on deca

**G-Force** · 06-01-2006, 03:38 AM

Originally Posted by PapaPump8

I'm having the same problem bro for some reason I just don't grow like I should I mean I'm on my 4th cycle and the first one I did I grew big time but since I just feel like I can't grow.I will gain the first 4 weeks then bam it's like I have nothing in my body. I'm taking a tren and prop 100 tren ED and 150 of proop EOD and I still have only gainned 6 lbs in 3 weeks the first week I gainned the 6 lbs since nothing and on top of that strength gains are not noticable. I just don't know why I don't react I use to think it was the roids but I have got it from 3 diffrent sources also I eat pretty good and work out hard but I just don't gain the 10-15 lbs I want. My bro is taking the same cycle and I think he is up 12 lbs but he stayed off the gear for like 9 months and i got on after 3 months of being off i think time off has something to do with it I think my body has never had more then 4 month time off.

yeah sounds familiar
i think u could definitely benefit from this type of short heavy cycling

give it a go

**vitor** · 06-01-2006, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

is there an alternative to winny i could use?
tbol perhaps?

i already have problems with my joints - even on deca

T-bol would be good, but Halotestin is better IMO.

Halo will work with more "synergi" when stacked with Tren than var will, b/c it binds to the non-AR meditaded mechanism. Var binds to the AR, yust like Tren.

Halo didnt seem to give me joint-pain like winny sometimes do.

**G-Force** · 06-01-2006, 04:25 AM

Originally Posted by vitor

T-bol would be good, but Halotestin is better IMO.

Halo will work with more "synergi" when stacked with Tren than var will, b/c it binds to the non-AR meditaded mechanism. Var binds to the AR, yust like Tren.

Halo didnt seem to give me joint-pain like winny sometimes do.

i wouldnt mind giving halo a bash actually seeing as ive never tried it
would be good for a lean bulk cycle too

not sure if i can get it though
would masteron have the same effect?

**G-Force** · 06-01-2006, 04:34 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

i wouldnt mind giving halo a bash actually seeing as ive never tried it
would be good for a lean bulk cycle too

not sure if i can get it though
would masteron have the same effect?

or primo?

**marcus300** · 06-01-2006, 04:38 AM

masteron is a good compound to add to your cycle, it works excellent with the other compounds and especially if the bf is low, or even primo if you respond to it, you will have to take a large amount of it to get any benefit from it.

**G-Force** · 06-01-2006, 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by marcus300

masteron is a good compound to add to your cycle, it works excellent with the other compounds and especially if the bf is low, or even primo if you respond to it, you will have to take a large amount of it to get any benefit from it.

hmm
well my bf right now is prob 11 - 12% - but i could do a short cut before this cycle - which i was thinking about before anyway

**marcus300** · 06-01-2006, 04:46 AM

your going to have to decide what course of action your going to do next, your having problems with gaining on cycle, so id defo look further into the diet side and increase cals when on cycle and prob change the way you cycle this time round to see if that helps,

**vitor** · 06-01-2006, 05:43 AM

Originally Posted by G-Force

i wouldnt mind giving halo a bash actually seeing as ive never tried it
would be good for a lean bulk cycle too

not sure if i can get it though
would masteron have the same effect?

When I tried Halo I got an "dramatic" strenght increase, and it kicked in very fast. I didnt see much size-increase of it, though. Its more of a hardening/ stenght drug, but the size gains should come of the Test and Tren anyways.

Ive done Primo from 400-3200mgs ew, its a good drug with no sides. But you will have to take a fairly large dosage to get the results youre looking for.

Masteron or Halo would be more cost-effective, I guess.

**G-Force** · 06-01-2006, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by vitor

When I tried Halo I got an "dramatic" strenght increase, and it kicked in very fast. I didnt see much size-increase of it, though. Its more of a hardening/ stenght drug, but the size gains should come of the Test and Tren anyways.

Ive done Primo from 400-3200mgs ew, its a good drug with no sides. But you will have to take a fairly large dosage to get the results youre looking for.

Masteron or Halo would be more cost-effective, I guess.

well i could definitely do with a strength increase
my bench hasnt gone up in 18 months

tren/prop/ and masteron sound ideal to me

not sure on dose for masteron though..

tren 100mg ED
prop 150mg ED
mast ?

**vitor** · 06-01-2006, 08:41 AM

Atleast, 100mgs eod of masteron .

**yom** · 06-01-2006, 09:18 AM

honestly i think you didnt use enough gear or for long enough and not enough cals. personally i guarantee results if you drop your bf so low about 5 %, dieting with carbs very low the whole time. then bang smash as much clean cals as possible even 2000cals over maintainance (6500cals ) no cardio , sleep as much as u can .with heeps of gear say 2.5 g of bulking gear. youll get all your weight back within 5 weeks . probably 3 to 1 fat to muscle. . my 2 cents for next level growth.

**C_Bino** · 06-01-2006, 09:24 AM

I would go higher than 100mg EOD of masteron . I would pesonally be injecting it ed and running it at 75mg+. Its gonna be your 5th cycle, no reason to run it as low as 50mg ed or 100mg eod imo.

I always think, if you have the "option" to inject ed or eod do it ED. That way you never have to shoot like 4cc of it at once and also blood levels are so constant that your sides are minimal. In fact from now on I will be injecting EVERYTHING ed, whether its prop, enth or even deca .

**Angel of death** · 06-01-2006, 09:59 AM

Anavar is a DHT deriv...

**taiboxa** · 06-01-2006, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by Angel of death

Anavar is a DHT deriv...

no i dont think it converts to DHT
thats why those who like their hair use it

**Mesomorphyl** · 06-01-2006, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

no i dont think it converts to DHT

Right, It is derived from so it will not convert into DHT.

**taiboxa** · 06-01-2006, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

Right, It is derived from so it will not convert into DHT.

aye i guess i was beating around the bush or not quite understanding what was really being discussed.. oh tai so easily confused ><

**Mesomorphyl** · 06-01-2006, 10:24 AM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

aye i guess i was beating around the bush or not quite understanding what was really being discussed.. oh tai so easily confused ><

To be completely honest I only looked at the last two posts... which was yours and angel of deaths... I do even know what was being discussed. Top that!

**taiboxa** · 06-01-2006, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by Mesomorphyl

To be completely honest I only looked at the last two posts... which was yours and angel of deaths... I do even know what was being discussed. Top that!

uh..
SPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!