Challenging the time on+time off belief and never coming off steroids

**123...BLOWUP** · 06-06-2006, 08:35 PM

I was talking to a top 10 NPC national qualifier (cannot say his name for privacy) but he is 6"4 320lbs, very ripped. He is always ripped and huge, and never loses gains, unlike a lot of E-Juicers, who blow up then shrink down and deflate due to the poor consesus among the internet that time on=time off is the best wau to go. I talked to him about this, and ask, how do the pros keep their gains like he does? He says it is very simple, all you have to do is stay on the stuff to magnify the nitrogen balance and promote constant anabolism. He basically stays on 250mg of test off cycle, and by staying on test at that level of a dose, you never lose the gains, but yet you are not doing enough to cause a lot of harm. He then formulated a strategy for me that worked very well to build a very nice base for him when he was 20 like I am now. He basically never cycled on the steroids , but stayed on 250mg of test weekly for many months at a time using proper diet. Basically it was up to a point 3 years later when he was 23, where he had that very ripped and define look, but not to the point of massively bulked. He was constantly monitored by the doctors, and the cholestrol levels werent affected that drastically so he tells me.
My question to you guys is this: Can doing 250mg of test a week really cause that much harm if done for many months, possibly years? I have allready tried the general consesus here on AR by doing time on=time off, with proper pct, but to be honest with you, it really sucks to lose those gains slowly and painfully..it really ****s with your head! Finishing the cycle at a benchpress strength of 315x4 reps, and slowly climbing down to 315x1 rep after several months...that just sucks you know? WHy not stay on low doses, and maintain those gains? I've seen my fair share of many gym dudes adhere to the time on=time off strategy, and basically they blow up, then deflate. Whats the point of that?

**T3/T4 GSR** · 06-06-2006, 08:37 PM

Sure that works great...but what do you plan to do once you stop body building and want to have use of your balls again?

**123...BLOWUP** · 06-06-2006, 09:00 PM

what about doing a 6-8 month nonstop routine, but the first 1-6 weeks is anadrol , the rest is test 250mg. Point of this is to completly solidfy the anadrol gains. How many of you guys stay on low doses of test throughout the year? any success stories?

**SMAN12b** · 06-06-2006, 09:13 PM

BECAUSE if you are on that long, your body (COULD) shut down natural test production PERMANENTLY and you will NEVER be able to come off gear for the rest of your life. You will always have to do TRT at low dose for life!!

That is enough of a reason to not do it continually. If your NPC friend is gonna be an Olympian, then he has reason to stay on forever, most of us like out penis and how it works !!!!!

**Bigpup101** · 06-06-2006, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

BECAUSE if you are on that long, your body will shut down natural test production PERMANENTLY and you will NEVER be able to come off gear for the rest of your life. You will always have to do TRT at low dose for life!!

That is enough of a reason to not do it continually. If your NPC friend is gonna be an Olympian, then he has reason to stay on forever, most of us like out penis and how it works !!!!!

Is there proof of that? or is this just hearsay?? b/c i know when you're on cycle and shut down, you are shut down completey..so what is the time frame ? and where is the red zone??

**Bigmax** · 06-06-2006, 09:16 PM

Agree with SMAN bro,are you looking to compete like your bro????...if you're then i see where your going wwith this.If its going to be your life then you do what you have to do.But think long and hard cause as SMAN said it can be irreversable.

**SMAN12b** · 06-06-2006, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by Bigpup101

Is there proof of that? or is this just hearsay?? b/c i know when you're on cycle and shut down, you are shut down completey..so what is the time frame ? and where is the red zone??

I can't say that I have PERSONAL experience of that because I actually use HCG throughout my entire cycles to ensure that I am NEVER totally shut down.
I am sure an Endo Doc could supply the data though, and it is just a risk NOT worth taking for me... but to each his own, so have at it.

**Bigmax** · 06-06-2006, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Bigpup101

Is there proof of that? or is this just hearsay?? b/c i know when you're on cycle and shut down, you are shut down completey..so what is the time frame ? and where is the red zone??

i'm sure there is bro.I know diferent guys right now who competed for years and are now attending longevity clinics...hearsay??? dont think so.

**Bigpup101** · 06-06-2006, 09:21 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

I can't say that I have PERSONAL experience of that because I actually use HCG throughout my entire cycles to ensure that I am NEVER totally shut down.
I am sure and Endo could supply the data though, and it is just a risk NOT worth taking for me... but to each his own, so have at it.

i was just wondering..i would like to see a study done on that and not just ppl on the WWW saying it b/c it soun ds right..and that was my next thing, maybe his friend (i would hope) runs HCG everyweek..i'm sure PCT would be harderer but who's to say irreversible?

**Bigpup101** · 06-06-2006, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by Bigmax

i'm sure there is bro.I know diferent guys right now who competed for years and are now attending longevity clinics...hearsay??? dont think so.

did they use HCG ?? did they use other compounds that might not have been known about them to help bring back natural hormones?? all things that need to be known before giving a definate answer

**Bigmax** · 06-06-2006, 09:28 PM

I'm sure they did.its probably an individual thing who knows but as SMAN said do you want to take a chance?????But you're right it takes alot to give a definate answer on a topic like this.

***BajanBastard*** · 06-06-2006, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by SMAN12B

BECAUSE if you are on that long, your body will shut down natural test production PERMANENTLY and you will NEVER be able to come off gear for the rest of your life. You will always have to do TRT at low dose for life!!

That is enough of a reason to not do it continually. If your NPC friend is gonna be an Olympian, then he has reason to stay on forever, most of us like out penis and how it works !!!!!

That's not a proven fact. I'm not saying there is not the possibility of it happening just not the way some people portray it.

In fact I'll be running low dose AAS post cycle (test e 250mg and masteron 200mg) to help my body reach homeostasis.

Blowup: This is not something i would take so lightly, you'd better research your ass off and be prepared for a rough ride when you do come off, if you're a casual juicer don't even bother.

**TheDfromGC** · 06-06-2006, 09:56 PM

reminds me of what the guy from the special on valentino said, the guys look great on the outside, they are huge and ripped, but on the inside there rotting and rusting away. long term sides eventually come into play, unfortunately many people are 40-50 by the time they do and have long since stopped with gear. some people may avoid them but many others wont. high/long term doses arent easy on ur body. all comes down to how much u will risk for ur looks compared to health

**Rickson** · 06-06-2006, 10:43 PM

I will just speak of my personal experience. I have been doing AAS about 17 years now. I started cycling like most but after a few years I started doing longer cycles with higher dosages. I had a very progressive endo and a more conservative personal physician at the time. Eventually it became harder and took much longer to recover as I became older. My endo believed I would be able to recover but we were looking at about 18 months. I made the decision to stay on year round and have for many years now. I don't regret this decision but if you are young I would advise you to think long and hard about it and the possible ramifications before staying on for too long. It may not stop you from recovering but could become a long tough process.

**C_Bino** · 06-06-2006, 11:25 PM

Well Im gonna take a different approach to the thread. Im not gonna tell you why you shouldnt stay on year round, but I am gonna tell you that you need to look beyond AAS if you are losing all your gains after a cycle. You obviously havent mastered PCT, or a phenominal diet or training routine. There is no reason for you to slowly lose everything unless you are the type of guy I see so often that juices and blows up on cycle than shrinks back down because they have no dedication to the sport. Sure pro's stay on year round but they are also doing this professioanlly and they have mastered the balance between training/diet/AAS.

If you dream to be a bodybuilder in the top ranks you wont do it by stayin on roids forever starting at 20years of age. You should be still growing naturally without ANY steroids . Dont take the easy road.

Also for some more imput on this you should read a sticky up top by Pinnacle. He actually goes into this very topic on page 5.

**Tren Bull** · 06-06-2006, 11:43 PM

Originally Posted by Bigmax

Agree with SMAN bro,are you looking to compete like your bro????...if you're then i see where your going wwith this.If its going to be your life then you do what you have to do.But think long and hard cause as SMAN said it can be irreversable.

i agree with this. you have to think long term. nobody likes to lose gains, but if you run propper pct and continue to train hard after your cycle ends, you will not lose much at all. hell, i finished a cycle in late december, and im way stronger now than i was when i finished the cycle.

**SMAN12b** · 06-06-2006, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by Tren Bull

i agree with this. you have to think long term. nobody likes to lose gains, but if you run propper pct and continue to train hard after your cycle ends, you will not lose much at all. hell, i finished a cycle in late december, and im way stronger now than i was when i finished the cycle.

Excellant points by both C Bino and Tren bull !!!!! It all comes down to Diet and training as usual......

**Tren Bull** · 06-06-2006, 11:45 PM

it all comes down to this:

propper diet, training hard (and changing up your routine when you see yourself plateu), propper pct (including clenbuterol ), and getting sufficient rest inbetween workouts.

if you got all this in check, then you will continue to grow even when you are not juicing.

**Tren Bull** · 06-06-2006, 11:45 PM

haha, i see you and i are on the same page bro

**marcus300** · 06-07-2006, 01:55 AM

I think people need to look at personally experience's here to get the answer, i know so many older BB's who sing the same tune and from my own experience's,

If you stay on AAS all the time with very little time off your body gets use to having the AAS and re-adjusts itself it time, so an increase in dosage or heavy bridging is needed to try and get more gains or even maintain them,with increase dosages comes even more sides and problems its a constant battle against the body,

your body does shut down its own production of hormones and the problems occur when you start to get older, as your young you don't and cant see the damage your doing,but you will find out when you get older, if your going to be the next Mr O well this is a different thing, pro's use very heavy dosages what would shock you and they are linked with bridges what alot of people do here as a heavy course,

At the age of 20yrs old you shouldn't even be thinking of taking anything, your just interfering with your own hormones what would do the same job if you attacked it with a diet correctly and training program, at this age you don't have a good base or any idea of nutrition, it took me years to be in tune with my body, you need a good solid base to work from and when you do decide to try AAS you will have the best advantage to produce rapid gains and would be far more maintainable for when you do come off, people find it hard to maintain gains when they come off because they didn't have the base of natural training, do as much as possible naturally and work from that !!

Your body as a rhythm and it doesn't keep on growing for weeks on end so why stay on? our body's grows in spurts and these bursts of growth can be lengthen and took advantage of by using AAS at the right time and you should also come off when growth as clearly stopped, its your body's way of telling you to, nowadays there are a huge number of aids what will help us maintain the gains and get us back on track with are own hormones, take advantage of this process and flow with it, its the best healthy way to do it.

Ive done very long cycles with bridges and trust me when you do decide to come off the head games in your head are untrue, it doesn't happen everytime but as you get older the demons come out to play, ive had a terrible time coping with everyday things, its a dark world trying to get back to normal when your body wont start producing its own hormones because its been stopped for so long, ive seen it many times and people should take note.

The only reason why most people lose there gains is because they didn't have a solid base to start with and they didn't get to there own natural limit before starting AAS, you blow up and you blow back down, this doesn't happen if the base is there from years of hard training and playing around with our diets, its hard work and people are taking the easy option and thats were problems occur, if your got to your naturally limit you will be like a dried sponge and when you do start AAS the gains are unbelievable you soak it all up but first hardwork is needed and don't think AAS are the answer to your dreams because they are not.

**vitor** · 06-07-2006, 02:24 AM

The longer youre on, the longer your Pituitary/Hypotalamus will stay asleep. And recovery could be a real problem.

Unless someone makes a living off it, I think its stupidy to continue to shut yourselves down, yust for maintaing gains. You can pretty much keep all your gains buy using Proviron , GH, and some test-boosting supplements like Trib/Redkat between cycles, and recover your testosterone production perfectly.