ascendants clen/t3 "almost all you need to know" thread

**ascendant** · 07-02-2006, 02:03 PM

Just wanted to debunk a few myths regarding these two compounds and provide some usefull info regarding their use. With proper knowledge and precautionary measures, these compounds can be relatively safe, so lets make sure you have the right information regarding these compounds.

Myth #1: Both compounds have different side-effects and therefore by taking both you're not going to increase the chances of sides from either of them.

Truth: For the most part, this is correct. They do both affect the body differently and many of their side-effects will not be stacked, but there is one important one to take into consideration that they do both affect. That is your heart. IMO, the only real side-effect you need to be concerned about while on these two comounds (when taking them sensibly) is the risks for your heart. They both increase chances of heart arrythmias, including tachycardia (rhr of over 100bpm), heart oppression, and can both potentially lead to complications leading to cardiac arrest. Heart risks can be dramatically decreased when increasing your dosages on both products gradually and only to a moderate level (dependent on your experience with both products).

Myth #2: If doing the "2 week on, 2 week off" method with these compounds, it's ok to use an ECA stack during the time off from the clen /t3.

Truth: Clen and ephedra both target our beta-2 receptors in our bodies, which is where the receptor downgrade concerns come into play that reduce their effectiveness. Unless those receptors receive a break for that 2 week period, they will continue to downgrade and you'll continue receiving less and less of a benefit from the compounds. Just give your body a break from stimulants for that 2 week period when doing this method. Your heart will thank you for it.

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Refreshing/Upregulating Beta-2 receptors:

Alright, now for those wishing to use these compounds for more than the 2 weeks. First off, let me say that I don't personally advise it as I feel your body should get a break every 2 weeks from these compounds, but I know many of you will be doing it anyway, so I might as well let you know how to do it right.

For starters, when taking them longer than 2 weeks, obviously you need something to prevent the receptor downgrade. We do this by "refreshing" the receptors. The two most popular chemicals used for this are ketotifen and diphenhydramine HCL.

Now, ketotifen is the more expensive of the two, but from most users experience it's also the more effective of the two. Ketotifen typically requires a prescription to be obtained and is an antihistamine which acts as an anti-inflammatory asthma medication. Certain research labs do carry this product, some even combine it with the clen in a compound mixture. Some people take the keto every day with the clen as it upregulates the beta-2 receptors, allowing you to take even less clen while receiving the same benefits of a higher dose. At minimum, it should be taken every 3rd week of clen intake for a full week at 2-3mg every day. For more information regarding keto, click here: Ketotifen - what you need to know!

Now, your second alternative is the diphenhydramine HCL. On many threads, you'll see people advising others to take benadryl to refresh the receptors. Now I want to destroy that idea right here as it's making people spend far more money than they need to on the actual product they need. The active ingredient in the benadryl that you're looking for is simply the diphenhydramine HCL, and it can be found in numerous antihistamine and sleep-aid medicines, most of which are far cheaper than benadryl. The cheapest I found personally was the "equate" brand of it. This product, taken at 100mg every night for a full week on the 3rd week of clen intake may also help refresh those beta-2 receptors.

I would like to mention though that although the keto seems to work for almost all users, the diphen does not seem to work for all. I don't have any info as to why that is, but just know that the diphen may not work for you personally, but as I already stated, it is a cheaper alternative as opposed to the keto.

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Dosage:

For starters, everyone should always do the ramp up and ramp down method while on these compounds.

For clen, the typical ramp is to begin at 20mcg/day and increase by 20mcg every following day to the chosen max dosage. For more experienced users who know these chems are fairly well tolerated by their bodies, a dose of 40-60mcg may be the initial starting dose, increasing at the usual 20mcg a day from there.

With t3, the ramp must be increased more slowly and is advised at a starting dose of 25mcg/day and increasing by another 25mcg every 4th day. Pharmacology on this product advises an increase of 25mcg once a week, so I would not personally advise bumping it up more than every 4th day as this chem can cause some serious sides if too much is taken. Just do a web search on "thyroid storm" to see what I mean. Though this is only in extreme cases typically where very high doses are used, just want to make you aware of the fact that this stuff isn't your everyday m&m's.

In regards to splitting the dosage throughout the day, some advise it, some don't. Personally, I don't think you'll notice much of a difference either way. Clens half-life is 36hours and t3's is longer than that, so whether you split it up or not it will be in your system for quite some time afterwards. I do notice however the stimulating effects seem to be most prominent during the first few hours after it's intake, indicating that your body may adjust to an extent to the stimulating effects. My best advise is try both and see what works for you. However, make sure to not take either chem too late in the day or you'll be up all night. I know this from personal experience and now only take my clen/t3 in one dose in the mornings.

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Max. dosage of clen/T3:

With clen, some will say 60mcg of clen has them shaking like a leaf, while others can take up to 200mcg and barely feel a thing. The most common methods people use to determine their tolerance is one of two things.

One method is they will increase their dose until their body temperature increases by 1 degree fahrenheit. I do not personally use this method as my body temperature doesn't increase at all while taking this stuff, yet I still get very noticeable thermogenic effects from it.

The second method of finding your clen tolerance is to continue increasing your dose at the typical 20mcg/day until the sides become intolerable, then back it off by 20mcg and maintain that dose. The intolerable sides usually include excessive shaking of the hands, excessive anxiety, or some other intolerable overstimulated cns response.

As far as T3 goes, it's harder to find your max tolerance of the chem as it does not have as noticeable sides that accompany it. The generally accepted max intake is typically 100mcg/day, but I personally feel this is a bit high and would not suggest an intake of more than 60-80mcg/day at most.

Now, those are the recommended doses when taking the chems on their own. As far as taking both of them together, that's a different story.

Some people still do take their max of both chems while using both at once, but I think this is very ill-advised and would not suggest it personally. As previously stated, they do both affect the heart and therefore you'd be dramatically increasing your risk of heart issues during their intake. Though there doesn't seem to be any generally accepted amounts to use when on both chems, I think the maximum consumption should be 20-40mcg below your personal max tolerance of clen alone and a max of 60mcg of t3.

As far as finding out your max tolerance, in case it's not obvious from my statements above, I strongly advise the intake of clen alone prior to combining these compounds. This allows you to observe your bodies response to the clen so you can differentiate down the road what chem caused what sides.

I suggest the clen first as opposed to the t3 due to the fact that on a calorie-restricted diet, clen works as an anti-catabolic, preserving muscle tissue while burning bodyfat. T3 is indifferent to where it burns calories from and will break down both fat and muscle indiscriminately.

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Now, regarding the sides of these compounds, I'm not going to describe them all here as there are many and what you will experience is fairly individualized. Some of the more common sides are: elevated rhr, headaches, elevated bp, increased perspiration, anxiety, muscle cramps, and trembling or feelings of trembling (usually of the hands). Most sides are those typically associated with stimulants.

As far as decreasing your risk for sides, the intake of taurine and potassium is typically advised, at least while on clen. Taurine is typically taken at 3-5g daily. Potassium at 200-400mg a day will typically suffice. The taurine is taken to help prevent heart risks associated with the chems. The potassium is to help maintain proper electrolyte balance in our bodies and proper hydration, the cause for the cramping side-effect associated with clen intake.

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For more info on the statements in this thread, here are some links:
http://www.kingpharm.com/uploads/pdf...Cytomel_PI.pdf
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic3/liothyronine.htm
http://www.steroid.com/Clenbuterol.php
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...arch&DB=pubmed
http://www.muscletalk.co.uk/article-clenbuterol.asp

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I may add to this later, but I think this will have most of what you need to get you safely and sensibly started on a clen/t3 cutting cycle. If I forgot anything or someone feels I left any vital information out on this thread, please feel free to pm me and I'll make the necessary changes.

**guest589745** · 07-02-2006, 05:07 PM

Good post.

Where did you gather this info from if you dont mind me asking?

**ascendant** · 07-02-2006, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by Skullsmasher

Good post.

Where did you gather this info from if you dont mind me asking?

thanks bro. got most the info from my own research from other threads on others knowledge and experience, websites (mostly pharmacological), and double checked all info that was questionable for validity.

most the research i did was originally for myself while using both compounds as i wanted to take them sensibly and with the proper precautions. after a while, i realized with all the info i gathered and how scattered it was, might be useful for me to put it all together onto one thread. so now, instead of me having to answer the same clen and t3 questions over and over for members, i can just direct people to this thread of mine.

**taiboxa** · 07-02-2006, 06:14 PM

yeah u might wanna cite thta bub..

**ascendant** · 07-02-2006, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

yeah u might wanna cite thta bub..

sure, i could do that with a lot of the info on there. figured if someone researches enough, they'll find all my statements to be valid. i do understand some peoples need for confirmation of some of the statements however, so i will do what i can to find web articles, pharmacology, and the like to further validate the info provided.

**taiboxa** · 07-02-2006, 08:10 PM

Originally Posted by ascendant

sure, i could do that with a lot of the info on there. figured if someone researches enough, they'll find all my statements to be valid. i do understand some peoples need for confirmation of some of the statements however, so i will do what i can to find web articles, pharmacology, and the like to further validate the info provided.

im not trying to call u out LOL not by any means i just know posting info w/o citation is a crime.. but its all good to me

**ascendant** · 07-02-2006, 11:25 PM

Originally Posted by taiboxa

im not trying to call u out LOL not by any means i just know posting info w/o citation is a crime.. but its all good to me

it's all good bro. i know you're just trying to help and i appreciate it. i posted a bunch of links on the bottom of the page to validate all the info on the page and then some.