EQ and CYpionate Cycle critique

[bigfish]

Tell me what you guys think. Always open for suggestions

EQ
Week 1 day 1-4 300 mg ed (frontload)
Week 2-14 600 mg

Cypionate
week 4-15 200 mg

HCG (swales way)
week 1-6 500 ius
week 7-15 750 ius

Nolva
I have 140, 20 mg nolva tabs on hand for any estro problems, but probably will do 20 mg eod
Pct
Clomid 2 weeks after last shot (15th week cyp.)
day 1 300 mg
day 2-11 100 mg
day 12-21 50 mg


My boy said 200 mg of cyp is worthless and that I should do at least 400 mg, but i'm trying to avoid bloat hence the choice of EQ and just keep up my sex drive with 200 mg and of course the hcg. What do you guys think? But if do 400 mg of cyp a week definitely would do 20 mgs of nolva ed.

[hosam4ever]

why do u start test @ week 4 why not from week 1

[bigfish]

Because i want them to start showing their effects about the same time. What do you think of the 200 mg of test?

[mkrulic]

Because i want them to start showing their effects about the same time. What do you think of the 200 mg of test?

what do you want to get out of this. why do you feel its important to have both compounds show effects at the same time? how do you know how long it will take to show effects? need stats

[Ejuicer]

Because i want them to start showing their effects about the same time. What do you think of the 200 mg of test?

Why wouldn't you want to see gains right away rather then wait for 6 weeks+?
I would cut the frontload. I've used it a few times in the past and find that it doesn't speed up any results and all it really does is waste gear. It looks good on paper as far as blood stability but that's about it, and I personally didn't see any reduction in sides from it.
I would jump up the cyp dose even if you are trying to avoid bloat. You can easily combat it with some letro, arimidex or aromasin . The nolva you mention you would use if you decided to use 400 won't really do much for water retention.
I'm assuming this is your first cycle? What are your stats?

[The_Canibal]

i'm also interested in the HCG ..during the entire cycle...


looking forward to seeing people's reactions...some that exteperimented with this kind 'a s**t

[BG]

i'm also interested in the HCG ..during the entire cycle...


looking forward to seeing people's reactions...some that exteperimented with this kind 'a s**t

Coviello AD, Matsumoto AM, Bremner WJ, et al. Low-dose human chorionic gonadotropin maintains intratesticular testosterone in normal men with testosterone-induced gonadotropin suppression. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 2005;90(5):2595-602.
Hers a little something about using HCG while on, but at low dosages.
ABSTRACT

In previous studies of testicular biopsy tissue from healthy men, intratesticular testosterone (ITT) has been shown to be much higher than serum testosterone (T), suggesting that high ITT is needed relative to serum T for normal spermatogenesis in men. However, the quantitative relationship between ITT and spermatogenesis is not known. To begin to address this issue experimentally, we determined the dose-response relationship between human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) and ITT to ascertain the minimum dose needed to maintain ITT in the normal range. Twenty-nine men with normal reproductive physiology were randomized to receive 200 mg T enanthate weekly in combination with either saline placebo or 125, 250, or 500 IU hCG every other day for 3 wk. ITT was assessed in testicular fluid obtained by percutaneous fine needle aspiration at baseline and at the end of treatment. Baseline serum T (14.1 nmol/liter) was 1.2% of ITT (1174 nmol/liter). LH and FSH were profoundly suppressed to 5% and 3% of baseline, respectively, and ITT was suppressed by 94% (1234 to 72 nmol/liter) in the T enanthate/placebo group. ITT increased linearly with increasing hCG dose (P < 0.001). Posttreatment ITT was 25% less than baseline in the 125 IU hCG group, 7% less than baseline in the 250 IU hCG group, and 26% greater than baseline in the 500 IU hCG group. These results demonstrate that relatively low dose hCG maintains ITT within the normal range in healthy men with gonadotropin suppression. Extensions of this study will allow determination of the ITT concentration threshold required to maintain spermatogenesis in man.

[BG]

As for your cycle, start the test at the same time, it also takes time to get blood levels stabalized before seeing gains.

[bigfish]

5 11 205 10-13% bf
3rd cycle
23 yrs

SO I should cut the frontload, make it 400 mg of cyp, and start the test at the same time? But still end the test a week after to properly start pct?
And I want to get to about 225 Without looking bloated and too smooth (that wehat happened to me on a previous test and deca cycle). Letro from lion nutriton is good ?

[bigfish]

also what's the usual protocol amount for letro

[Ejuicer]

5 11 205 10-13% bf
3rd cycle
23 yrs

SO I should cut the frontload, make it 400 mg of cyp, and start the test at the same time? But still end the test a week after to properly start pct?
And I want to get to about 225 Without looking bloated and too smooth (that wehat happened to me on a previous test and deca cycle). Letro from lion nutriton is good ?

That's sounding better. Yes, I would end the test a week after the eq.
No comment on lions letro, but I use a ug letro and find it just as good as the pharmaceutical version but for a hell of a lot cheaper price.

[Ejuicer]

also what's the usual protocol amount for letro

It's usually .5mg but you can adjust accordingly if you find you need 1mg or if you only need .25mg. Going as low as .25 personally doesn't do a whole lot for me though.

[MAXIMA5]

I would lose the HCG , especially with only 200mg of cyp.

If you're set on running it, run it the last 4-5 weeks of the cycle then stop at PCT and let your body recover. That's how I usually do it with great recovery.

[MAXIMA5]

My boy said 200 mg of cyp is worthless and that I should do at least 400 mg, but i'm trying to avoid bloat hence the choice of EQ and just keep up my sex drive with 200 mg and of course the hcg. What do you guys think? But if do 400 mg of cyp a week definitely would do 20 mgs of nolva ed.

I agree with your boy.
I didn;t bloat much at all with cyp and eq. 10mg is more than enough Nolva, unless you experience gyno symptoms.
ANti E's are often overused due to fear and can hinder you, IMO. Use it if you need it, but don't throw it in every time as a standard, especially with such a cookie-cutter cycle.

[G-1000]

You wont to frt load 2100mg of eq for the fist 4 weeks. this is not smart at all.

The next thing is start the test on week one. Its going to kick in at the same time as eq. Not loike it's going to add much. It's only 200mg not even worth running if you ask me.

There is also no need for hcg in the cycle.

[aadrenaline]

jesus thats a lot of eq

[bigfish]

Ok so I should do cyp weeks 1-15 at 400 mg and cut the eq frontload? What kind of gains can I expect from that? And don't take any anti e's until i see symptoms?

[MAXIMA5]

If you had success with low test doses, 400 mg should be good. If you are gyno prone, 10mg of Nolva is a good dose, up if necessary depending on how you react. If you've never experienced gyno symptoms, either keeo it on hand or run 10 mg.