First cycle Q's, PLZ help me out

[GlobalRiot]

Ok to start, I just got off a pp/sd cycle and I gained 23 lbs for 5 weeks 158 to 181, both muscle and fat. Now im just going to finish my pct and I figured id actually go for the real stuff afterwards, but I want to mainly make this a cutting cycle. Im pretty determined to do a cycle before I depart for basic for the marines which is nov/dec ish. So please help me out, and not flame ! !

I was thinking testprop and winny. and nolva for pct.

Test prop week 1 - 6. 100 mg ED.
Winstrol week 1 - 6. 100 mg ED.

But my main question is How do I go about taking this stuff ? ? I mean Ive never taken injection before. Should I just buy 2 syringes and a bunch of needles ? ? Would 23 gauge and 1.5" be good for deltoid injection ? ? And what do I have to do to steralize, or are the needles sterile and I just put in the syringe and inject ? ?

LONG story short, basically im getting
4 Winstrol 100 mg /10ml vial
4 TEST PROP 100mg/ml, 10ml vial

What else should be on my shopping list ? ?

I just realized this stuff is expensive ! ! How do you guys afford this stuff !?!?

Either way im looking forward to this cycle, and I hope you guys can help me out. Thanks a bunch ! !

[SMAN12b]

OK, I wil try not to Flame you.

First answer ALL the questions below in green and we can help you better

second, do you realize that Prop and Winny are shot daily? and actually winny should be shot twice a day due to its 8=12 hour half life.

third. do you realize that prop and winny are the most painful injections seperatly but to do them in one shot is gonna KILL?

fourth. We do NOT discuss COST of anything on the open forum

fifth, buy your syringes and needles by the box of 100, and never reuse either 23g 1.5" is for glute shots 25g 1" is for delts and quad shots

[GlobalRiot]

Thanks for response, here ya go.

im 19
5'10
181
around 14%
and I just started 3x wk lifting, 5x cardio
only previous cycle was sd/pp
I want to get to like 9% bf @ 175ish

[STEROIDZZ]

Your a little young at age 19 to be taking AA's....so i probably would suggest holding off for a couple years im 21 and people think i am young.... And i have no idea what you previous cycle was SD, PP ???? The advice your going to get is your not ready for using AA's , and good gains could be seen without AA's.... As for you wanting to get your bf down to 9% thats easily done through diet... NOT AA's ..... get you some ephedrine, and increase your cardio.. get diet cclean and you wont have a problem with lossing weight... AA's are made for muscle building not fat loss... winstrol is for making you look hard... not loss of bf... and test prop is used in lean mass gians because of its very little water bloat... again not fat loss

[GlobalRiot]

Yeah during the pct fdor superdrol and phera plex im doing an eca stack and doing alot of cardio. I just want to get a low % then take juice. So by doing prop id be getting bigger, but with winny id still maintain the cutness right ? ?

Well I dont know ive been double thinking the injection since you say its the most painful, and I still have yet to actually inject a roid into me.

Is there any other suggestions of a stack that would be good for the results I want ? ?

[STEROIDZZ]

My advice to you friend is to get your bf low i w0uld say 10% is excellent... then take a bulking cycle... just because it says bulk doesnt mean you will gains tons of fat... with your bf being that low and you eat and train right you woudl blow up and look great..... I would suggest using a longer ester such as test cyp or eth. running tha5 for 12wks... and using winstrol the last 6 wks of t he cycle to make you look hard.... use a good anti e such as arimidex and water bloat woud barley be a problem.... cuttness is all diet not AA"s... winstrol only makes you look hard if bf is low enough.... not lose weight.... BTW i have heard people report that their bf reduced while on ccyle with simply test....

[GlobalRiot]

Is there a difference in tablet/injectable form of winny ? ? Is on less potent or anything like that ? ?

Is test eth "TESTOSTERONE ENANTHATE " ? ?

Because I can get that test cheaper than cyp.

[STEROIDZZ]

Ok... first off there really isnt a difference between tablet and injectable, that are well noticed. Both are adminstered very frequently, but one difference is the pain that injectable winny causes reported by many users ..if i were you i would use tablets.... also it has been said that injectables work better then tablets... but that depends on you.. you will only k now through trying it... and Yes test eth is test enathanate,

[GlobalRiot]

Ok so how many mg/day of eth should I take with winny ? ? Also should I use dbol for the first 4 weeks for a kickstart (as I see alot of)

Also I havent got a clue what to do with my pct right now, should I only be taking armidex, or stack with clomid or nolva ? ? And I dont know when to start it, like how long after last winny/eth injection?

Steroidzz think you can help me out for a pct ? ? Like which anti-e to take, how much, and how long ? ?

Thanks alot for your advice.

[SMAN12b]

Be careful here STEROIDZZ !!!

GlobalRiot, you really are TOO young to be starting AAS adn screwing with your natural hormone levels.

Please hold off for a few more years!!!

[STEROIDZZ]

SMAN is my mentor, lol... so his advice is recommend as i told you first off your age would be a problem and isnt advised... but if your not going to listen here is the answer to your questionslll


No problem on the help.... i think this is your second cycle right??? Test should be taken at 500mg a wk.. divided into 2 shots... ( 250mg each shot) winny should be incorported into your cycle the last 6 wks of it ... so if you run test for 12 wks start the winny at wk 6. Dbol is a good kickstarter.... if this being your first use of dbol i suggest 30mg ed for 4 wks.... ... arimidex should be taken at .25 or .5 ed or eod .. depending on if sides occur... take armidex throughout your cycle. You could run the armidex up to your pct start date but i dont think its neccessary... I say the last day of your cycle... stop the armidex as well... considering your using test ETH .. your PCT should start 14 days after your last shot( remember winny should stop same day as shots) PCT should include: Nolva at 20mg ed , and clomid at 100mg ed for 25 to 30 days...

[GlobalRiot]

Seriously tho thanks, you dont even know how much your helping ! !

So here is what I have so far

1-4 Dbol 30mg/ed
1-7 armidex .25 mg/ed
1-10 Test E 250mg/e3d
6-12 winny 100mg/ed

And im going to do Nolva wk 13-16, but I still dont know what doses to do for the 4 weeks. because you said nolva @ 100mg/ed, and 20 mg/ed.

[STEROIDZZ]

you listented to nothing i said buddy.. the armidex should be ran throughout the WHOLE cycle ... in my opinion... I also suggest running the test for 12 wks instead of 10wks, if you run test for 12 wks then you start ur winny wk 6 so they both end same time or run it a wk or two past.... re read what i said... i said clomid at 100mg ed and NOLVA at 20mg ed for 25 to 30 days.... the cycle you just listed isnt very good... re read what i said and plan it out differently.... I hope i didnt hit myself in the foot from helping you.....

[fLgAtOr]

Would it be a problem to run the winny up to PCT? It will clear within a day right?

[STEROIDZZ]

As far as running the winny up to PCT im not too sure I'll leave that question up to someone with more knowledge... SMAN come to my rescue

But considering winny is in and out of system within 24 hours i dont see the problem... but like i said wait for more knowledgable advise i might be wrong and probaly is

[GlobalRiot]

PCT should include: Nolva at 20mg ed , and nolva at 100mg ed for 25 to 30 days...

see you said nolva twice lol.

No the reason I cut test short was because, I could run winny up to the day I start my pct. And you said it wasnt necessary to run armidex the whole cycle, but if you insist I will.

1-4 Dbol 30mg/ed
1-12 armidex .25 mg/ed
1-10 Test E 250mg/e3d
6-12 winny 100mg/ed

pct

13-16 Clomid 100mg/ed
13-16 nolva 20mg/ed

Does this look better ? ?

[fLgAtOr]

Ok I change my mind.

Global,
You're 19. There is no way that any of us are going to agree with your usage. And even if you think your ready, if you have to ask these questions, then you really aren't ready.

[STEROIDZZ]

I apologize for the typing error i corrected it , and i suggest running the test for 12 wks because some people dont report getting gains until wk 5 or 6 sometimes longer....and like i said im not sure on running the winny up to PCT...wait for more advice on that....
I agree with you FLGATOr ,,, i suggested this with my first reply to his question... but if his mind is set on doing it i think he should know how to do it correctly..... regaurdless if i agree with him using at 19 or not

[GlobalRiot]

Ok, Im gonna run it like your saying, but im having a problem finding syringes and needles, I only need 24, and I can only find boxes of 100.

And where I can find like packages of 10, they are 3cc syringes which I think is .3 ml ? ?

[SMAN12b]

I am NOT even gonna read this any further!!

STEROIDZZ, you are suggested not only to a 19 year old, but someone who does'tn have a clue, that he should be running TWO TOXIC ORALS pretty much back to back in his cycle???????????????????????????????????

Have YOU Learned NOTHING?????????

GLOBAL, you are asking for a ton of trouble here since you really do NOT know enough to do AAS correctly!!
Please stick around and learn for another year or two before you just start sticking things in your body!!
BUT since you wont' listen..............

Winny should be run the two weeks past the last test E shot to match with PCT time, NOT Just the last 6 weeks................

GOOD LUCK

[fLgAtOr]

Ok, Im gonna run it like your saying, but im having a problem finding syringes and needles, I only need 24, and I can only find boxes of 100.

And where I can find like packages of 10, they are 3cc syringes which I think is .3 ml ? ?

Why is it that you won't acknowledge anyone else that has given you advice?

[STEROIDZZ]

Advising to orals basically back to back ??? im confused i dont see where i stated that ? nor do i understand why you gave me so much heat, over me helping someone its obvious he's going to take soemthing.... reguarldess of his age... and i agree he's too young.. but woudlnt it be better to help soemone who is going to do it either way then not help ... and i have learned a lot actually.. i told him i didnt know how to do the winny and told him to wait for more advice

[GlobalRiot]

Winny should be run the two weeks past the last test E shot to match with PCT time, NOT Just the last 6 weeks................

GOOD LUCK

So like I was going to do originally, do 1-10 test and 6-12 winny, and do pct immedatly following winny correct ? ?

And thanks steroidzz, you're right I would have gotten into this a little incorrect if you didnt point stuff out. So thank you for help me. I dont see why sman got so angry. Thats the point of the forums right, to help out ? ?

[STEROIDZZ]

listen to SMAN he's the pro.... sorry for the confusion Globalriot... thats why i told you to wait for more knowldegbe help about winny..

[SMAN12b]

SMAN is my mentor, lol... so his advice is recommend as i told you first off your age would be a problem and isnt advised... but if your not going to listen here is the answer to your questionslll


No problem on the help.... i think this is your second cycle right??? Test should be taken at 500mg a wk.. divided into 2 shots... ( 250mg each shot) winny should be incorported into your cycle the last 6 wks of it ... so if you run test for 12 wks start the winny at wk 6. Dbol is a good kickstarter.... if this being your first use of dbol i suggest 30mg ed for 4 wks.... ... arimidex should be taken at .25 or .5 ed or eod .. depending on if sides occur... take armidex throughout your cycle. You could run the armidex up to your pct start date but i dont think its neccessary... I say the last day of your cycle... stop the armidex as well... considering your using test ETH .. your PCT should start 14 days after your last shot( remember winny should stop same day as shots) PCT should include: Nolva at 20mg ed , and clomid at 100mg ed for 25 to 30 days...

Did I read this wrong?? are you not telling him that Dbol is a good kickstarter at 30mgs for 4 weeks and then telling him 6 weeks fo an oral winny???

Isn't that 10 weeks of harsh ORALS??????

SMAN gets so angry because KIDS like you do not think past tomorrow adn all you want to do is to jump into using AAS to get BIG !!!

You totally disreguard any concern for your own health and how doing all this AAS will effect your HPTA.

You desreguard the fact that at 19 you are still GROWING and using AAS now could prematurally fuse your growth plates . You seem to not care that you have a TON of natural hormones running in your system and IF you would only do the WORK to tap into them, you would not need to put your body through the stress of an AAS cycle.
You think you AAS is a short cut, and you will put on muscle even if your diet and training are not on target. ANd they AREN"T on target or you would ge able to put on mass very easily

SMAN gets angry cause its KIDS like YOU that end up in the news giving AAS a bad name because you hurt your health by doing things half assed and blame steroids and make the rest of us who bust our ass to do this correctly and help others do it correctly look bad.......

[GlobalRiot]

Ok I DO understand that I shouldnt be doing this at 19, but you know what theres 300 other 19 year olds on this forum that are doing it. Im not saying that makes it right, but im just saying its not like im the only one. but im not a kid that thinks I can sit on my ass and get big from it either, I know I will get bigger the harder I go, and just throwing juice in the mix makes it that much more worth it.

And if I did get hurt doing steroids , believe me I definitly wouldnt blame it on it, because I would know I did them incorrectly. And on top of that I plan on doing it correctly so I dont make that mistake, hence me asking a million and one questions to make sure its right.


Now your saying dont take 2 oral roids, which I probably wont because of the liver, I was thinking possibly just getting winny in a vial and drinking that, which wont affect the liver right ? ? Or do you have any other suggestions Sman, because as of right now im doing what I listed before except winny in a vial, and not tablet form. So anything besides the obvious disagreement of my age, would you suggest something else or is it all ok.

[SMAN12b]

Ok I DO understand that I shouldnt be doing this at 19, but you know what theres 300 other 19 year olds on this forum that are doing it. Im not saying that makes it right, but im just saying its not like im the only one. but im not a kid that thinks I can sit on my ass and get big from it either, I know I will get bigger the harder I go, and just throwing juice in the mix makes it that much more worth it.

And if I did get hurt doing steroids , believe me I definitly wouldnt blame it on it, because I would know I did them incorrectly. And on top of that I plan on doing it correctly so I dont make that mistake, hence me asking a million and one questions to make sure its right.


Now your saying dont take 2 oral roids, which I probably wont because of the liver, I was thinking possibly just getting winny in a vial and drinking that, which wont affect the liver right ? ? Or do you have any other suggestions Sman, because as of right now im doing what I listed before except winny in a vial, and not tablet form. So anything besides the obvious disagreement of my age, would you suggest something else or is it all ok.

You are going to lose about 17% of the potency by drinking the winny. So adjust the dose acordingly. If your gonna do winny, you should be taking it twice a day as the half life is only 8-12 hours.
Make sure you have your PCT on hand before you do anything.

The other 300 kids that are too young, hear the same thing you are hearing . if they choose as you do to continue then they are taking the same risks you are by screwing up your HPTA for life. There are thousands on here that started at your age and will tell you that they regret doing it so young.

Good luck be safe

[GlobalRiot]

Sorry for hitting a nerve before Sman, but I appreciate your help and concern ! !

[SMAN12b]

Sorry for hitting a nerve before Sman, but I appreciate your help and concern ! !

No sweat. Just hate to see kids feel pressured into using AAS at such young ages.
Dealing with an 18 year old right now in another thread that says he needs to be competitive and coaches encourage it.......
Its a shame that sports matter more than health..

Oh well...........

[GlobalRiot]

Lol you deal with alot of neive teens huh ? ? I personally dont feel pressured to do it, ive just wanted to do it for so long. But I understand what you mean when you say kids are pressured, but those kids are probably like what you thought I was, someone who sits and thinks they gains muscle. I know you have to bust your ass, but like I said this is just an incentive to bust my ass that much harder ! !

But hey one more thing SMAN, just found out the vials are alot more expensive compared to tablets mg wise(winny), and im definitly going to drop dbol so I can take the winstrol tablets. Is there any suggestion to what I could possibly replace dbol with ? ? Or should I just continue my cycle as is minus dbol ? ?

I also looked for injectable dbol but they dont have any

[Hellmaskbanned]

AGE ASIDE

You have not put in enough work pre AAS use!
Your stats are average at best for someone who barely trains.
In no way you are qualified to cycle.

[SMAN12b]

you can kickstart with Test Prop but its daily shots and painful
Just skip the dbol you will be fine without it

[GlobalRiot]

Cool, im just gonna drop it, thanks.

[GlobalRiot]

Nevermind answered it myself

[SMAN12b]

Test E is injected every 3.5 days...doesn't matter which days. I do Monday morning and Thursday night

Needles-
For glute shots, 23g 1.5"
for guads and delts 25g 1"

YES length makes a difference, YES you should buy a whole box they are cheap
if you draw more than one compound into the same syringe then you should change the needle so it is sharp. NEVER EVER reuse a needle or syringe


ALL these questions are answered HERE in the fourms if you do some work and LOOK for them. YET another reason you are NOT really ready to be using AAS

[GlobalRiot]

Yeah I started double thinking this as the prices keep adding up. Let alone you guys are right about the age, and lack of information.

If anything I might do a test cycle soon, I still dont know

But again you helped me alot, I know more than before, thanks ! !